I'm increasing my physical training - now doing 100 bokken strikes instead of 50. Still keeping at 25 or so pushups, and situps. Probably should do those more.
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See, this is one of of those grey areas...Although moses said all of that to the people, I do recall there being a law that whatever is held true in the church Jesus holds true in heaven, and the church is therefore infallible, and who canonizes Saints? The catholic church, and they produce holy cards, and chaplets for people to buy, and use to pray to the saints for divine interference, and help...I mean the bible isn't historically correct, a gospel is good news, and you can't have good news without making other practices bad news..I mean even without a belief in deities, people are still going to pray to their recently passed brothers, or sisters, or mother, or father for strength..I suppose even god's rules change over a period of time...I mean I don't remember which passages exactly in the bible state the following (I'll have to read through it...again), but I remember reading about children who curse at their parents being put to death, or something or the sort, and the infamous 'eye for an eye'...The church today has gone as far as stating that people do not need to be christian to go to heaven, they just need to live christ-like lives (Which at the same time I find weird since yesterday I was watching catholic tv and a priest came out and said that that was all basically bullshit...obviously he should be fired lol).
IMHO, some magics that were considered blasphemous in the days of jesus, today aren't that big of a deal. I do, however, follow a personal code. I never invoke any deity, or essence other than the holy spirit, I never try to see the future by means of divination, I never try to change anyone's will unless I honest to god thought that it would evolve their perspective, and spirituality to better themselves...There's even magic based on Psalms, that should say something alone about how most people have boradened their perspective and viewpoint on the bible...Especially in these days where we're finding more, and more gospels, and religious texts, we're decoding what meanings of one word today meant in Jesus's day...To sum up this long rant (Which I'm sorry for if it's too long, I tend to ramble) I do follow the bible, but alot of it I believe to be the old law, and the church is the new law, and if the church sais.., no, if the pope who is infallible, sais that it is alright to pray to these deceased people to better help us, then who am I as an occult opportunist to pass that up? lol, and if I'm wrong, I otherwise lead a good life, I'll take my time in purgatory. I hope you find this to be a good essay answer to your question lol..if not, I'm sure I can some up with another 10,000 word essay.
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lol, well put.
The problem I've found with Papal infallibility, is that that's not a biblical doctrine; it was only propagated by the church about two hundred years ago (similar to Papal celibacy - previously they used to have entire harems to themselves). Similarly, Jesus held that basically all the law in the Old Testament was still applicable. I have heard the principle you mention - but I've yet to actually come across it anywhere in the bible (it's certainly not at the end of any of the gospels, which is where you'd think you'd find them).
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Leviticus 20:9 (English-NIV)--`If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head. '
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (English-NIV)--If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Matthew 15:4 (English-NIV)--For God said, `Honor your father and mother' and `Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
-That's not very nice..Can you imgagine if everyone in the world took the bible literally, and went by all the biblical laws how many kids we'd lose? I'd predict no more humans within a few hundred years from everyone killing their young, lol..It's like I said, I follow the 10 commandments (as best as I can, anyway. Good thing about Catholicism, if I confess, I'm back in gods grace, ain't that grand?), and I follow strict guidelines with my magic, and studies. I do amit, some saints are a bit far-fetched...Like saint Christopher, and the child getting heavyer on his back, or St George slaying a dragon, Saint Murgen the mermaid (Not official, but still, Saints back in the day were canonized by the public anyway) etc...But for the most part, Saints can be helpful. We work, and commune with the dead all the time, whether it's setting up an altar for them, praying that they help you, or even when someone goes to a graveyard to visit an old one, sets flowers and converses with them in hopes that they're listening. I do think (And maybe this is me just not being a good Catholic, you decide) that alot of the bible just can't be followed in today's society, and sometimes the exact opposite of what the bible preaches is needed to evolve spiritually. I mean, alright the bible states you should turn the other cheeck, right? In today's society what if someone has turned it one too many times, and the person abuses them goes to far, and he gets seriously hurt, or dies? Sure he'd go to heaven, but his family would be in unimaginable pain, the abusers would still do what they do to more people. Not if he gives the abuser a good swing, he goes, asks god for forgiveness, the abuser's learned his lesson, stops his ways, becomes a better person, everyone's happy, and everyone gets into god's graces...The only way INHO to follow the bible word to word is if everyone gave up their material posessions, make a big hole in a tree, and lived there, soaking up gods grace for the rest of their lives..But no one is going to do that. lol. Again, a long rant, put me on TV I'd put everyone in the U.S to sleep. lol.
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Very good points. Incidentally, some people think that St George's dragon was a Baronyx.
Some of the things you highlighted though are societal problems. Children aren't respectful anymore, because it's cool not to be - but in turn, we're seeing a breakdown of the family unit. Much of the Old Testament law was aimed at keeping society running, and running well. Similarly, the values Jesus taught are quite beyond what the majority of people (even the majority of Christians) are capable of understanding... then again, I'm of the opinion that most wouldn't want to either - it goes against our selfishness. Heck, I've had Christians vehemently coming out in favour of violence, and against the beatitudes.
However, I can tell you - swinging at an abuser will only bring down more abuse. Definitely won't make them change their mind.
Anywho, if you do manage to find the passage about Jesus holding true what the church holds true, I'd love to hear it.
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You know what, buddy I almost gave up looking, but found the passage in Matthew 16:16-19...Weird I didn't think to look unto the last minute, seeing as it's one of the more famous parts of the bible. Maybe it's the sleep deprivation. lol.
"And Simon peter answered and said, Thou art the christ, the son of the living god.And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on eath shall be loosed in heaven"
Honestly, unlike christianity (well, by christianity I mean none of the denominations) Catholicism is a very open religion, and people interpret things differently which is probably why alot of christians view catholic beliefs as being blasphemous, and think we're going to hell. Someone can also say "Hey, maybe it's a different church", and maybe so..But in history you never hear the 'Churches', always the CHURCH. I don't know if that was the passage you were looking/hoping for, and if it's not let me know and I'll try to look for something else 9Although it's the bible...what else do ya' need? lol)
The word for "bind" and "bound" (deo) translates in this instance to mean "to forbid, prohibit, declare to be illicit", so I think that would only work in the tightening of restrictions.
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& What about "and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven"? See, I don't speak greek. Italian, yes. Spanish, yes..But greek, that's a little problem for me lol. Ah well, people (like me) have chosen to interpret it to mean that the church has been given authority over the rule in heaven (Excluding god, and Jesus), and infallibility. We'll see when we die....But, we're screwed in heaven if some psycho is elected as pope. Oye.
But this is odd. The word for "loose" (luo) is weird. Looking at the definitions... it says:
1. to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened
a. bandages of the feet, the shoes, b. of a husband and wife joined together by the bond of matrimony c. of a single man, whether he has already had a wife or has not yet married
2. to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free
a. of one bound up (swathed in bandages) b. bound with chains (a prisoner), discharge from prison, let go
3. to loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together
a. an assembly, i.e. to dismiss, break up b. laws, as having a binding force, are likened to bonds c. to annul, subvert d. to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act e. to declare unlawful f. to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy g. to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy h. metaph., to overthrow, to do away with
3e apparently contradicts all the rest, but I'm assuming it probably means 3b. I'm with you on the psycho pope thing though.
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If only Jesus, his apostles, and the writers of the bible spoke english, eh? Well, it could be 3d as well. What (or Who, in which case it would have to be whosoever) thou shalt deprive of the church authority shall be deprived of the authority of heaven (god). I mean, falling out of God's grace is the worse thing to a christian/Jew. Like I said, it's too broad to say, and it's really to each his own.
Mar 30 2006, 06:37 PM
