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[Evocation] What We Have Learned
Old 12-15-2004, 08:32 AM   #1
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Default [Evocation] What We Have Learned

This one geared towards newbies.
It would be very nice and save lot's of our time and newbies if all of us take some time here to pool out our knowledge and resources into this thread on what we have learned on evocations and it' s related subjects.

Short to the point summaries pls.
(should save a lot of us some time instead of reading every thread on OF and gather bits and pieces of this info)

What I have learned:
1. Study the theory before the praxis!
(I AM recommended me Kybalion and Magick in Theory and Practice which had prepared my first steps into magick)
2. Daily basic rituals to empower your divinity, faith, believes and power.
3. Elementals are the "easiest" entity to evoke for newbie.
4. Summoning Spirits is the most popular initiation into evocations, but Bardon's IIH is the way to adepthood.
5. Do not summon Lucifer for obvious reasons ;p
6. Do not sit in the triangle! or morph your own face on black mirror
7. Invoke often and inflame thyself with prayers
8. When someone/book said, sacrifice a virgin kid or anything like that, it meant to be body liquid/sperm, NOT a human sacrifice.
9. There is no such thing as a quick fix.
10. Develop astral sense and evoke astrally first.
11. Selling your soul and blood sacrifice is way off limits!
12. Be nice and respectful with the demons but YOU are in charge.
13. Meditate often and get in touch with your higher self.
14. Evocation to pyshical manisfestation is best done out in nature or close to the ground, ie: basement, forest, beach, etc. Evoking from your apartment on the 13th floor for instance will distort manifestation.
15. Demons will test your circle. Make sure it will hold.
16. How to make the circle hold? Answer: Faith, divinity, inflame thy self with prayers, invoke often, imagination and lot's of practices.
17. Evocation is not for kids, ignorance or the weak of heart. Stop bothering us with silly chicken questions.
18. Like PaulS from OF Witchcraft forum said: Magick works, but it is not the only way!
19. Always banish before and after evocations, even when you assume it was unsuccessful evocation.
20. Always ID the entity properly you are summoning. Banish it if you got a wrong number and try dialing again one more time. Try another day if still unsuccessful.
21. Use the correct incense and other correspondences for each entities. ie: prepare the fishbowl with the correct water and environtments for the kind of fish you're after!
22. Learn to raise and manipulate energies.
23. When you can, "pick" up the entity from the astral and help bring it down to the physical plane.
24. Entity sigil functions in a similar way to a cell phone number. Expect occasional "no signal/busy/mailbox"
25. Entity sigil are usually destroyed after desired result is manifested - burn, buried, thrown to body of water.
26. Result manifested will usually happens by sets of "normal" coincidences.
27. Do not Invoke negative entities for obvious reasons.
28. Some people treat some demons like retarded child with superhuman powers.
29. You may NOT get what you want, you WILL get what you deserve > interpret that anyway you like
30. Start studying the Qabalah! for me chicken Qabalah is the "easiest" book ever.
31. Don't get cheap with books. Knowledge IS power. Invest that money to build up your own occult library. Amazon.com clients! pls use my site (http://www.astralsense.com/) Education is the most important thing you'll ever invest on ANY part of your life.
32. Demons and angels cannot tell between right or wrong (we human had eaten the tree of knowledge), they are NOT good nor evil , but they will do what they do. Use this to YOUR advantages > interpret this anyway you like
33. Demons submit NOT to you, but to the divinity within you. - probably also with a hidden agenda, but I wouldn't have a clue
34. Conjurations should be done in a commanding, yet respectful tone. Hold your ground.
35. Different system works better than the other, find one suitable to you.
36. Make your own magick and rituals. YOU are the MAGICK and the STAR. KNOW this. BE IT. Fake it till you make it. "The only limits to our Magick are our own..." - I AM
37. How does "faith" developed? with time and "re-enforcements": information > opinion > belief > faith > conviction.
38. Learn astral projection. Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics" is the current best book on the subject and there's a lot of usefull energy raising manipulation exercises can be found there.
39. Rewards given to entity: respect, sigil made from material of entity choice/element, energy, a small amount of body liquid/blood(must be disassociated first from you), certain housing to place it's sigil, lighting a candle in appreciation for result/s, etc
40. Triangle can be made from cardboard, circle from rope, ducktape, stone, or flour. Butter knife as dagger, your broom as staff, whatever works for YOU.
41. Get familiar and understand the meaning of the words of power. Ignorance rarely gives power.
42. Learn to skry! Read and practice: Benjamin Rowe's "A Short Course in Scrying"
43. The fastest newbie successfull evocation in my knowledge is done after 3 months of training. Expect at least a year until you're ready. Remember, no quick fix, no miracles either. Expect to work hard to gain result. Magick is not the only way to solve your problem/s.
44. Drugs is a major no no! Good magician are the healthy ones.
45. While beginning your basic rituals, try not to "find" your rituals tools, let them find you.
46. Magick is the ancient physiology and psychology of change. Try NLP for a change!
47. Learn to be and stay in trance at will (no xtacy please) or "state of bliss"
48. Project your will, intent and energies toward the triangle/black mirror to help manifest the entity (lending energies).
49. Learn to consecrate your tools properly.
50. Repetition is the mother of skills ~ Anthony Robbins
51. Clean your aura daily and often!
52. Dangers of evocation are usually depressions, and other mental health problems, when malicious demons will enter your weak aura and temper with your vibrations Death are rare, but happens to disrecpectful few.
53. When training to meditate, USE distractions to your advantage.
54. Magick, such as evocation happens FIRST on the astral before it manifested on the physical plane. As above so below.
55. If you're ashmatic, use a gas mask or diver's equipment to prevent the incense choking you to death lol jk guys..
56. Demons/entity may "look" differently from one mage to another. Part of them are inside your mind > based on your perception at the same time they are OUTSIDE of your mind.
57. You'll get exactly what you believe. ie: banishment or any magick will not work if you have no faith it IS working. It's all mind > learn to control your own brain!
58. Work and open up all your 7 chakra's to aid you to raise energy and more! It is probably the 7 seals mentioned on Revelation chapter of the bible. Open the chakra's at your own risk.
59. There is no guarantee evocation or magick will work for you, but you can change your perception into making magick works for you. Persistence, change and perception is key.
60. There are no "Greater and Lesser" Keys of Solomon. This is part and parcel of the myth that the "Lesser Key" deals with demons while the "Greater Key" deals with Angels. They are not two books in a set- they are merely two books within a similar Tradition. One is called the "Key of Solomon the King", and the other is called the "Lemegeton or Key of Solomon". BOTH of them present operations to summon earth- bound spirits or demons. ~Aaron Leitch
61. Necronomicon is fake and so is your perception of the world, but it will work out great for you if you only have faith ~Me!
62. Chaotes believed laughter is the "best" banishment, why is this so? Laughter, like it's lesser, crying is an emotion that creates release. Banishment, release, understand the connection? ~ChaosTech
63. When one understands that THEY are the Circle, then it cannot be broken. One should also understand that they are also the BANISHING ~ I AM
64. Your subcouncious cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined. Most "magick" is done by and with the subconcious. Again, fake it till you believe it. Repetition IS the mother of all skills!
65. In relation to above, delusions are very closely associated with practicing magick, don't lose your mind and do reality check.
66. Ritual equipment is only an aid to focusing the mind and nothing else.
67. Never do or say anything that you do not fully understand. When you understand something, you remove the chances of failure. Study the theory before the praxis!
68. Magick is the art of getting to know about energies and learning how to use it. Elemental energies and everything else comes from one source. Like a laser is composed of various colors.
69. KNOWING the magick is all about faith and beliefs. Positive failth will bring positive results. Go on..delude yourself lol.. Magick is the science of using and understanding the power of the subconcious mind.
70. No such thing as instant magick. No free lunch either. Patience, persistence and regular practice is key.
71. You do not NEED to see the entity you're evoking. You only need to KNOW that it's there. You evoke it to COMMAND it and NOT to explore a vision.
72. Every aspect of evocation must be on the magician's terms. Watch your OWN mind while communicating with the entity/demons, and learn to differentiate the difference.
73. If you're worried your conjuration will not work, then chances are it won't.
74. Bare evocation tools: Circle, and Triangle + Seals + wand/staff/dagger/sword/spoon + Insanity.
75. A link must be established first with the entity through it's sigil and it's name by entering gnosis before you can have a successful evocation.
76. I am very suspicious of any demon, even an imp, as they are as innocent as a snake in a rat farm and as clever as a fox - LadyHydralisk
77. How does one "hear" the entity? Think of the last time your mom talks to you, you should hear her voice on RIGHT side of your mind.
78. How do you felt entities presence? Think of the feeling when someone peeks over your shoulder. Think of an invisible person in front of you.
79.

will edit and add more when I learn new info or as I remembers them...


PS: I should take my own medicine lol....
PSS: There's a different between knowing the theory and KNOWING the magick.

You're not ready to evoke when...
1. You still ask what is the basic rituals.
2. You question the strength of your circle.
3. You cannot sense your circle/astral sense to communicate with the entities.
4. You are affraid of darkness and demons.
5. You have little to no idea on how to astrally protect yourself.

Whew! that was fun

Even if I've mentioned it in this post, doesn't mean you cannot repeat it in your own words or voice your disagreements. People learn things differently and we all as a big family are here to learn something from each other, filling in the blanks
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Last edited by Kinjo : 02-23-2005 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Updates
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Old 12-15-2004, 09:15 AM   #2
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Your notes are matching mine....which leads me to believe you are actually using my Thread Index :P

<SNIP>
EDIT: ADDED to my index


Saddly I have a job (My temp agency threatened to contenst my unemployment unless I went to work ) ...but reading through the rest of the index IS on my short term list...it'll just take a bit longer. Though, once I'm done with it I'll gladdly add to the list! (besides, I'm thinking of doing the same thing down in Chaos cuz there is a few things I wanna learn from them as well).

It really does seem that MANY of the threads in this forum DO teach a lesson and I'm looking forward to learning all of them!

Q
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Old 12-15-2004, 09:29 AM   #3
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Wow kinjo!
Readers digest of CM OF. It reads like something else I have read before but I cannot put my finger on it. That book Life's Little Instruction Book maybe? Who knows. Regardless this is a great job.

Quote:
2. You question the strength of your circle

This is a huge one. Even the slightest doubt is doubt. Do not think, KNOW.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero

This is a huge one. Even the slightest doubt is doubt. Do not think, KNOW.
To get to "KNOW" is my point no:
37. How "faith" developed? with time and "enforcements": info > opinion > belief > faith > conviction.
We need to enforced the info with "proves" which will turn it into our own opinion, even more proves > belief > faith > conviction you'll die for.
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Old 12-16-2004, 09:04 AM   #5
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Kinjo, that is a fantastic list. After you've added more and it feels almost "complete" to me, I may print it and tuck in with some of my evocation reading materials. Sort of a crib sheet.

One thing I'm wondering is about payment to the entity: why would a payment that seems so minor to me be worth an entity helping me, say, gain employment or some other biggie?

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Old 12-16-2004, 09:53 AM   #6
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I do not agree with all the points above, for example #1 or #5 or #25. (#57 and #61 are dubious)

However, that doesn't in any way diminish the value of the list. Good work!
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Last edited by Grab : 12-16-2004 at 10:53 AM. Reason: added a few more i don't agree with
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Old 12-16-2004, 10:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinjo
55. If you're ashmatic, use a gas mask or diver's equipment to prevent the incense choking you to death lol jk guys..
Well I am not kidding, this is the most important thing to remember. But seriously, I agree with most of what you have listed since it is geared towards newbies but it is not entirely my way of doing this which I won't recommend.
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd23
Well I am not kidding, this is the most important thing to remember. But seriously, I agree with most of what you have listed since it is geared towards newbies but it is not entirely my way of doing this which I won't recommend.

I didn't titled this thread to "What I Have Learned" I'm looking forward for others like you to share your way of doing it.

C'mon guys, I somehow felt a little bit cheated if you don't post your ideas and what you've learned Pls share!
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:30 AM   #9
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Well done Kinjo, I admire your determination.
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It is good
Old 12-30-2004, 01:52 AM   #10
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I am impressed, I think it will be useful for many
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Old 01-02-2005, 01:35 AM   #11
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"5. Do not summon Lucifer for obvious reasons ;p"

Find this slightly funny.
None of you have actually summoned the being Lucifer. So how would you know if he is as powerful as you think he is.

Hehehe

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Old 01-02-2005, 02:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinjo
I'm looking forward for others like you to share your way of doing it.
OK, you asked for it. I will give you a recent entry off of my blog (slightly modified to fit here) that sums up my methods to a certain extent.

There seems to be what I consider a common misunderstanding about Magick among the "true believer" cult, and what I consider a misunderstanding may be a misunderstanding on my part and I will openly admit that. The "true believers", to me, are those who take the allegorical, metaphorical, or symbolic imagery and language of systems literally. When a Magickian speaks of a "demon" or an "elemental" or a "spirit" they tend to think of them as quite literally, objectively and physically "real". In some sense, yes, they can be very "real" to someone but not in a literal or scientifically verifiable objective sense, at least not yet. This is why no one can take the Randi award for proving the existence of the "paranormal", I have other issues with that outside of this topic but that is beside the point. Having practiced Magick for some time I have seen no objective evidence of any of the results I have gotten other than a lot of acausal or coincidental events that I have personally interpretted and applied meaning to. That is commonly called a "synchronicity"and I call it Art. There is something called the 5 Step Plan for evoking and banishing a demon which I present as an example of how this process works Magickally. The following comes from HERE for those interested.

_____

If you are a smoking magician, and there are many, and you wish you could give up, try the following exercise. On the other hand, if you don't want to give up, there is little point! Part of the reason you may have failed to give up before is because you never actually saw yourself as a non-smoker, you were a smoker who was trying to give up. The following exercise allows you to see yourself as someone who was always a non-smoker, but who have been possessed by a smoking demon.

Step 1. Identify your smoking habit as an external demon. Recognise that you have been under possession from this demon and that it will attack you if you try to give up. Be confident that externalised its power will be considerably weakened. The main way it tricked you before was by pretending it was you and subverting your actions from within.

Step 2. Name the demon. Be creative. One way is to use an appropriate word and then reverse it to make it sound demonic. Fagash becomes Fagashsagaf, Smog becomes Smogoms, Dogend becomes Dogendnegod etc.

Step 3. Create an image or effigy of the demon. Draw a picture of it or make a sculpture. If you're not a confident artist just draw a cigarette with an evil face on it. Write its name underneath. You could even draw the face on a real cigarette if you have one left!

Step 4. Prepare a ritual, include the image inside. Perform an evocation of the smoking demon. Calling it foul titles whilst saying its name three times out loud, ought to be sufficiently dramatic to work. Banish it back to the foul and evil devil Tobacco. Burn or otherwise destroy the effigy as you do so. Before finishing the ritual in your usual manner, you could read out a liturgy of all the bad health effects of making a pact with the evil Tobacco devil, and all the environmental damage he causes.

Step 5. Being a smoker may have been a large or significant part of your persona. Having externalised and banished what you have now recognised as an external demon may leave you feeling a little empty or incomplete. This can be remedied by starting a new habit/behaviour pattern, this time a more healthy, environmentally friendly one. You can even finish the ritual in step four with a dedication to begin this new habit.

_____

I use similar techniques for evocation all the time, sometimes unconsciously. The example of smoker can be replaced with anything. I think the above makes clear and de-mystyfies a lot of what people seem to misunderstand about Magick in general. It demonstrates how you can "cause change to occur in conformity with Will" as Aleister Crowley put it. A "powerful Magickian" is someone who can make the above process actually work and manifest the desired result. I do see the value in some of the literal interpretation at times but sometimes that kind of delusion can be a "demon" worth evoking and banishing itself. I use typing thoughts on my blog or here on OF as a form of evocation as well. When I have some negative feelings, especially towards another person who has rubbed me the wrong way, I will type up everything I would want to say to that person (evoking the demon), the more effort and more typing the better, and just when I think I have said everything the way I would want to say it and am close to publicly posting it here or on my blog (releasing the demon to do my dirty work and to hurt others), I delete it and laugh it off (banish). Gone. The effort I put into it to externalize this negative energy and then deleting it effectively destroys the desire (the demon) to want to bother with it again and the other person is unharmed and I feel a lot better. If I were to release this demon intentionally, like a lot of people do, I would be practicing what is commonly called "black magic" in the sense in which Crowley defined the term.

"'Black magic' is commonly conceived as a type of 'sorcery' or 'diabolism' intended to cause harm to other beings. Crowley's conception of 'black magic' represents a refinement of this common understanding of the term: he defined black magic as magical work which does not serve the aspirant's True Will; and he also held that it could not be the True Will of any being to oppose the True Will of another." SOURCE

Sometimes, with the help of a listening friend, I will evoke a demon in the form of an email and send it out to have that person help me effectively banish it, most of the time they don't know they are actually helping me perform this magickal ritual. Just by reading it and offering a kind word back they have done their part. Invocation is kind of the opposite of this. You usually invoke the attributes you desire. Magickians a lot of times represent these desires symbolically or archetypally as gods/goddesses or deities of some sort but that is not a required practice at all. Invocation symbolically draws "in" these desired attributes and you become the living personification of the archetype that is helpful to you and sometimes not so helpful to you. In the 5 Step Plan above, the addition of "starting a new habit/behavior pattern" can be in the form of an invocation. All of the warnings about doing these exercises do have a foundation but a lot of times, in my experiences, I think they are unwarranted and are a fall back to old superstitions when people had less of an understanding of their own minds than we do today.

Again, like I said, maybe I am misunderstanding it. Magick works for me, I don't work for it even though I do the work. In essence, I see Magick and it's techniques, in the post-modern sense, as a metaphor for the process of becoming who you are.
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Old 01-02-2005, 02:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
8. When someone/book said, sacrifice a virgin kid or anything like that, it meant to be body liquid/sperm, NOT a human sacrifice.
A kid is a young goat...

While a substitute can still likely be found there is a rather distinct difference between a goat and semen.

Something I've learned...
Sometimes words have two meanings and it's best to know them both.

It would be a HORRIBLE mistake [ethically] to think a ritual was refering to a human child when what you really needed was some animal...of course a worse mistake would be to sacrifice a child (animal/human) when all you needed was sperm.

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Old 01-02-2005, 08:28 AM   #14
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wow this is great, i think someone should make this a sticky
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Old 01-03-2005, 02:34 PM   #15
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Great, great, great! Nalyd23! Hopefully others will start sharing what have they learned soon!

Happy New Years 2005 guys!
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Old 01-04-2005, 03:28 AM   #16
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Hmm... I bet I could come up with a good question for each of those lessons learned. Like, for instance, "make sure the circle will hold" = how?
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Old 01-04-2005, 04:36 PM   #17
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How? Practice LBRP twice daily. Good practice makes perfect, good practice increases confident that the circle truly existed. The LBRP is one of the foundation of a good circle. When your faith hold, your circle will hold.
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Born with our circle
Old 01-04-2005, 04:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
make sure the circle will hold" = how?
I see it like this: we are born with our circle which is our connection; we lose this through conditioning in childhood often and we just have to relearn the feeling of it and then strengthen it.

It is a personal experience and the visualizations help us to 'see' it so that we believe it. Once we know we really do have it, we can now see when we are being tested and do something about it, it will hold, because you WILL it to hold and make the visualisation to help you see that you can withstand the attacks.

Just because we were not aware of our circles before, does not mean that we weren't tested, but the stronger you get, the more attractive and noticeble you are.

Just my own experience and thoughts really...
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Old 01-04-2005, 05:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaymon
"5. Do not summon Lucifer for obvious reasons ;p"

Find this slightly funny.
None of you have actually summoned the being Lucifer. So how would you know if he is as powerful as you think he is.

Hehehe

Kaymon

We assume he is second to God. Assuming in my own dictionary were never a good term. Assume = ass u & me, but I bet not many members in this forum is that desperate or have a need to summon Lucifer "yet" just to find out how powerful he is.
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:30 PM   #20
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What's so desperate about that? In fact, following the tradition of the Grimoire Verum and the Abramelin (and perhaps others too) we are required to summon Lucifer and some other "head beasts" before moving on to little demons.

It makes sense, really, to conjure the big beasts first, and then the little ones will happily follow you. It would still be Right Hand Path and in the name of the most holy etc. Anyway, for more details, see another thread.
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Old 01-05-2005, 12:17 AM   #21
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I would say that the "Lucifer" archetype qualifies as a godform and would be very difficult to evoke but not impossible. However, I would invoke such an entity if I were to want to use this principle. I read your thread Grab, very interesting.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd23
There is something called the 5 Step Plan for evoking and banishing a demon which I present as an example of how this process works Magickally.
This is one reason why Magick is the ancient psychology.
I will try to "convert" parts of your post into NLP if you don't mind Nalyd23

Quote:
Step 1. Identify your smoking habit as an external demon. Recognise that you have been under possession from this demon and that it will attack you if you try to give up. Be confident that externalised its power will be considerably weakened. The main way it tricked you before was by pretending it was you and subverting your actions from within.
In NLP and psychology, it is well known that the subconcious mind cannot tell the different between what is real and what is imagined. When you IMAGINE yourself VIVIDLY as a non-smoker often enough, your subconcious will gradually accept this as reality and "adjust" your concious mind accordingly. An athlete who simply add this visualisation excercise consistently to supplement their "rituals" will definetely add a significant edge over their competitors who do not.

Quote:
Step 2. Name the demon. Be creative. One way is to use an appropriate word and then reverse it to make it sound demonic. Fagash becomes Fagashsagaf, Smog becomes Smogoms, Dogend becomes Dogendnegod etc.
Same technique used in NLP is to reverse our ASSOCIATION. If we always enjoyed smoking, then we will "never" succeed to quit the habit. It will be painful. To reverse it, we will have to imagine the worst of things about cigarette which appropiately repels us most. In the end, when we're successful in finding the right association and reverse it, quiting smoking WILL be permanent, enjoyable and painfree.

Quote:
Step 3. Create an image or effigy of the demon. Draw a picture of it or make a sculpture. If you're not a confident artist just draw a cigarette with an evil face on it. Write its name underneath. You could even draw the face on a real cigarette if you have one left!
Similar to previous steps. Change the REPRESENTATION of cigarettes to you. From fun, relaxing, etc to YUCK!!! I HATE CIGARETTE! The key here is to imagine the pictures and the unpleasant feelings as vividly as you can.

Quote:
Step 4. Prepare a ritual, include the image inside. Perform an evocation of the smoking demon. Calling it foul titles whilst saying its name three times out loud, ought to be sufficiently dramatic to work. Banish it back to the foul and evil devil Tobacco. Burn or otherwise destroy the effigy as you do so. Before finishing the ritual in your usual manner, you could read out a liturgy of all the bad health effects of making a pact with the evil Tobacco devil, and all the environmental damage he causes.
On the same theme, imagine yourself a happy NON-SMOKER who wouldn't even consider to touch a ciggarette. In your mind's eyes you trained yourself to always see and feel vividly how cigarrete are bad for you > self hypnosis your subconcious to believe it.

Quote:
Step 5. Being a smoker may have been a large or significant part of your persona. Having externalised and banished what you have now recognised as an external demon may leave you feeling a little empty or incomplete. This can be remedied by starting a new habit/behaviour pattern, this time a more healthy, environmentally friendly one. You can even finish the ritual in step four with a dedication to begin this new habit.
When we succesfully quite smoking entirely, something else must replace the fun and the benefits we've once enjoyed being a smoker. There will be a void to be filled. This can be difficult for some people, as there's some representation and association needed to be put in sync with the old habit/s to recreate the pleasure. Some tried gum, eating, drinking, etc. It's all about dissasociation and creating new association which will be determined by consistent vivid imagination of new representational "system" to "trick" our subconcious to believe/override old habits. When there's no "new" pleasure to fill this void, then the old subconcious may nag and temp you to crawl back to the old pleasures.

This is the reason of why we ARE the magick. It all happens in the control center, the subconcious IMO are similar to the astral plane, we need to be a good programmer to override and write/improve new program/s to something more suitable to manifest our desire/s into the physical plane

btw, NLP = Neuro Linguistic Programming.
I usually translate it simply as "the manual of mind" and/or "other people's mind manipulator" and/or "the science of peak performance" etc etc etc
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Old 02-02-2005, 03:20 PM   #23
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BUMP! updated! share people!
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Old 02-04-2005, 02:26 PM   #24
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Yes people, do share. I would like to see how others do this as well.
Kinjo, I meant to post here before about your analysis of my post. Not really much to say about it outside of I agree and good job.
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Old 02-07-2005, 06:36 PM   #25
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Wooow kinjo, that would be helpful for a lot of newbies , but some ppl wont be reading the first ten lines of it (lazy fellas!)]
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:58 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaymon
"5. Do not summon Lucifer for obvious reasons ;p"

Find this slightly funny.
None of you have actually summoned the being Lucifer. So how would you know if he is as powerful as you think he is.

Hehehe

Kaymon

I have not summoned Lucifer to me but I have gone to him in the astral. He is a very, very powerful being, and very beautiful. He is not evil but there was no doubt he could've wiped out my astral body if he wanted to.
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Old 02-19-2005, 09:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd23
I would say that the "Lucifer" archetype qualifies as a godform and would be very difficult to evoke but not impossible. However, I would invoke such an entity if I were to want to use this principle. I read your thread Grab, very interesting.

I have managed to come close to Lucifer by drawing his sigil in Grimoire Verum in the astral and walking through it. I agree he is a godform. He is friendly.
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Quotes from Bardon's PME
Old 02-23-2005, 06:48 PM   #28
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Importance of Astral Senses
Quote:

...the magician or the person intending to busy himself with magical evocation should know that without the development of one's astral senses, especially those of clairvoyance and clairaudience, a successful evocation cannot be thought of. It would be the same as if a blind man wanted to follow an unknown street without a guide.
The magician must always bear three principles in mind when he wants to bring about a successful evocation:
1. If he intends to call a spirit being of a certain sphere into his sphere, no matter whether he calls it into the triangle, the mirror, or into a fluid condenser, he must bear in mind that the being is only able to move about in an atmosphere appropriate to its own sphere. He therefore must artificially create the spheric atmosphere by accumulating the light, the material of the sphere, either into the triangle, or preferably into the whole room in which he is working. If working with a magic mirror it has to be impregnated or condensed respectively with the according light material of the sphere.
When operating in the open air, the impregnation must be kept within such limits that the beings or powers that are to manifest themselves have sufficient room to move about.
The accumulated or impregnated light must have a colour which is in accordance with the colour-law of the individual planet. I have already given the reader and student a detailed information on this question of impregnating or accumulating light in space in "Initiation into Hermetics" in the chapter dealing with space-impregnation. If, for instance, a being of the Moon-sphere is evoked outside oneself, the light, or rather the material to be accumulated, must be of a silvery white colour; in the case of a being of Mercury the light-material must be opalescent; beings from Venus must have a green, beings from the Sun a golden yellow, from Mars a red, from Jupiter a blue, from Saturn a violet light, etc.

If, for instance, the magician calls a being of the earth-element, he must get the element of the earth into the magic triangle or the magic mirror by the help of his imagination. If he wants to call to him a being from the Moon, he must create the vibration of the Moon sphere. No being is able to dwell in a sphere not appropriate to it. If, in case of citation, this principle is not adhered to, a being might be forced to come to our physical sphere, but it would, in such a case, have to create, by itself, the necessary spheric vibration. The magician would, in this case, lose his control over the being, and his authority, too, would suffer from such a failure, for the being would consider the magician as not perfect and would therefore not pay him respect and would refuse to obey him. Strictly adhering to and acting according to this principle is most important when evocations are carried out, and this must never be forgotten by a true magician.

2. The magician must be able to place himself, with his consciousness, during the evocation, into the sphere of the being cited, so that the being will behold him. This transplanting of one's spirit is done under the laws of the Akasha-principle, i. e. by the magician's putting himself into a state of trance in which he does not know any time or space, and it is in this state that he cites, according to his will, and due to his authority etc. the being concerned. Without these faculties the magician is not able to make a being appear.

3. The magician must call forth, by means of his magical authority, the being's awe and obedience, for otherwise no being - no matter whether positive or negative - would respect him. The magical authority or influence of the magician does not work on a being due to the magician's personality, but because he has influenced or bound himself with an intelligence superior to the being or appears as a deity in the aspect authoritative to the being. It is thus not the magician who makes his influence work on the being, but the authority of the superior being or of the highest possible intelligence; of the evoking deity itself.

Invocation of the Divine
Quote:

When practicing evocation, the magician will first influence or ally himself with the superior intelligence. He will only take on the shape of the highest quality for his selfassertion as an authority and show it in obstinate cases in which the being should try to oppose anyhow.

If the magician were to try to influence the being evoked by his own personality only, the being could refuse to obey him, or could, for the worse, deceive him in a most shocking manner. If, however, the being is actually receiving his orders from a superior intelligence, or even God in any aspect, not from the magician himself, then the being must, under any circumstance, obey the order.

On Planning
Quote:

Before a magician starts with the evocation of beings he must have the whole procedure precisely entered into the book of formulae and should, if possible, know it by heart, so that he is not delayed during his operations by any looking up.
The purpose of the evocation, too, must be laid down in writing before its beginning, for during the evocation no additional questions may be raised.

On Languange
Quote:

The magician converses with a being in his own familiar language. Since he is, in any case, in an elevated state, in the state of trance, his language automatically changes into the spiritual language, into the so-called metaphorical language and is so understood by the being. The being, too, who normally uses its own language, will converse in this spiritual language, which again will be translated automatically into the language with which the magician is familiar. Due to this fact the magician will at first have the feeling that the answers by the being come from his own subconscious much in the same manner as a person's inner voice is heard. By and by the magician will get used to this and will finally realize that the being is actually speaking outside him, and after repeated work in this field it will appear to him to be the same as if he were talking to one of his fellowmen.
Gnosis
Quote:

...during the whole time of the evocation, the magician is in an elevated state, in a true relationship with God, he places himself with his consciousness into the sphere of the chosen being and, after having called out its name, asks the being to appear to him. The being hears the magician, at once reacts to his call, and quite willingly comes near him.

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Old 02-24-2005, 05:13 AM   #29
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i found that list to be very helpful, thanks
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Old 03-08-2005, 12:36 PM   #30
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Very interesting list... I'll have to *ahem* "borrow" it and transcribe it into my growing library. But it does bear a lot of points worth being repeated both to beginners, and also to the occasional adept who has grown a little too cocky.

Ah, and on "that" being... He fell for his own reasons, but He hasn't entirely given them up yet. So who He is friendly to is probably based on what He can gain from the situation. Humans haven't changed in thousands of years, so the opportunities are always open.
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Old 04-13-2005, 11:44 AM   #31
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I just woke up from a dream that gave me an analogy from an entity's point of view so I thought I would share it here as it may help someone else. It probably won't come out in this post as clear as it was to me in the dream but I shall try. I have never seen or heard this kind of description and if someone else has please let me know and give me a source. Anyway, if you put yourself in the shoes of an "entity" (choose any) think of yourself as being at the movie theatre about to see a movie and viewing the preview trailers for upcoming movies. You see one that really captures your interest and take note. Later you start to see this preview on TV and this "calling" gets you more excited and you almost can't wait. Finally the day arrives when this movie premiers and since you have been evoked with all the proper symbols, images, words, and sound-bites you are there and ready to be entertained and satisfied with a great movie. Now if it is a great movie and you have enjoyed yourself you may want to see it again and will show up a few more times without much provocation but if it turns out to be a total disappointment you will be very pissed off at all of the deceptive hype that helped trick you into showing up opening night and spending $10 on the ticket. If you have a bad temper you may even want to get even with whoever and start tearing up the theatre and hurting some innocent bystanders, or you may even walk out 1/4 of the way through the movie and demand your money back, etc. You may even decide to devour the other movie-goers around you.

The lesson in the above is to not evoke or invoke these "entities" without having a productive reason to do so or something to offer them for their time. If you do it just to do it it can really piss an "entity" off when you have wasted it's time and money.
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Unread Yesterday, 05:18 PM   #32
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"This one geared towards newbies.
It would be very nice and save lot's of our time and newbies if all of us take some time here to pool out our knowledge and resources into this thread on what we have learned on evocations and it' s related subjects. "

Cool! Thanks for all the work I am going to put the link on some yahoo groups I am on if you don't mind
Well you asked for others to share their experiences, and I do things completely different LOL, I'll add a few comments here and there.

What I have learned:

3. Elementals are the "easiest" entity to evoke for newbie.

Oops, I started with archangels then moved to the goetia lol, but I think you are prob right on this one... I was told that elementals are kind of dangerous when I started.

4. Summoning Spirits is the most popular initiation into evocations, but Bardon's IIH is the way to adepthood.

Yep that is the book I first used, too bad it leaves out so much. I think the grimoires themselves are the absolute best book. I think the path to adepthood has to do a lot with throwing out the books and getting there other ways <g>

5. Do not summon Lucifer for obvious reasons ;p

Now you tell me!

6. Do not sit in the triangle! or morph your own face on black mirror

LOL, good point, it is best to always have your assistant be the one to sit in the traingle j/k

7. Invoke often and inflame thyself with prayers

That is one way of doing it, an effective way, but there are others.

8. When someone/book said, sacrifice a virgin kid or anything like that, it meant to be body liquid/sperm, NOT a human sacrifice.

If I'm having goat for supper I will sacrifice a kid thank you. Makes the best parchment
Well Crowley meant sperm anyways.

9. There is no such thing as a quick fix.

Do you think we could put this in neon?

10. Develop astral sense and evoke astrally first.

Unless you want to evoke physically first of course.

11. Selling your soul and blood sacrifice is way off limits!

I have yet to meet a being that wants my soul. Well if blood sacrifice is out then the Vodou/Santaria folks would be out of luck.

14. Evocation to pyshical manisfestation is best done out in nature or close to the ground, ie: basement, forest, beach, etc. Evoking from your apartment on the 13th floor for instance will distort manifestation.

Out in nature evocations are awesome! As are basement ones, as were my 20th floor apartment ones

15. Demons will test your circle. Make sure it will hold.

Does that mean that they can get out of the traingle? When I do use a circle I have been fortunate enough not to have any test it, run around outside it maybe, but not test it.

16. How to make the circle hold? Answer: Faith, divinity, inflame thy self with prayers, invoke often, imagination and lot's of practices.

For astral evocations...

17. Evocation is not for kids, ignorance or the weak of heart. Stop bothering us with silly chicken questions.

LOL, now that one should be highlighted in some places on the net.

18. Like PaulS from OF Witchcraft forum said: Magick works, but it is not the only way!

What you mean I have to leave my apartment and actually apply for the job as well? j/k

19. Always banish before and after evocations, even when you assume it was unsuccessful evocation.

Ooops, now you tell me <g> Does once a year count?

20. Always ID the entity properly you are summoning. Banish it if you got a wrong number and try dialing again one more time. Try another day if still unsuccessful.

I will at least quiz the wrong number one to get their name and number before I hang up on them.

21. Use the correct incense and other correspondences for each entities. ie: prepare the fishbowl with the correct water and environtments for the kind of fish you're after!

I didn't know there was a "correct" incense. I use my general Goetia manifesting incense for the Goetia beings..
I have found strawberries to work quite well in my fishbowl LOL

24. Entity sigil functions in a similar way to a cell phone number. Expect occasional "no signal/busy/mailbox"

Well lets hope they don't have really high roaming fees and have an unlimited nights and weekends plan LOL.

25. Entity sigil are usually destroyed after desired result is manifested - burn, buried, thrown to body of water.

I usually never detroy them, I keep them around for the next time I will work with that being, or when I want to make a quick call. I also make them out of metal quite often though.

26. Result manifested will usually happens by sets of "normal" coincidences.

Yep usually, when they don't though it is quite fun

27. Do not Invoke negative entities for obvious reasons.

Ooops, now you tell me, ok so it was a long time ago, I was young and stupid LOL

28. Some people treat some demons like retarded child with superhuman powers.

Good thing they are really patient beings then

29. You may NOT get what you want, you WILL get what you deserve > interpret that anyway you like

I usually get their perception of what I want, which usually comes out pretty cool

30. Start studying the Qabalah! for me chicken Qabalah is the "easiest" book ever.

Yeah DuQuette kicks butt! I love his books.
I don't think you need to know Kabbalah to evoke though, unless you are evoking Kabbalistic entities in particular of course.

31. Don't get cheap with books. Knowledge IS power. Invest that money to build up your own occult library. Amazon.com clients! pls use my site (http://www.astralsense.com/) Education is the most important thing you'll ever invest on ANY part of your life.

I definatly agree on not cheaping out with books, and to buy more than one book LOL.

32. Demons and angels cannot tell between right or wrong (we human had eaten the tree of knowledge), they are NOT good nor evil , but they will do what they do. Use this to YOUR advantages > interpret this anyway you like

I figure any system of ethics they have is vastly different than ours, and they have trouble understanding ours, which is mostly imposed by society and not well thought out. Also, I find they sometimes will work with what we really want, as uposed to what we say we want.

33. Demons submit NOT to you, but to the divinity within you. - probably also with a hidden agenda, but I wouldn't have a clue

LOL, well good thing I work with interesting gods then


36. Make your own magick and rituals. YOU are the MAGICK and the STAR. KNOW this. BE IT. Fake it till you make it. "The only limits to our Magick are our own..." - I AM

Yeah, right after you get a basic grounding in magic so you sort of know what you are doing...

38. Learn astral projection. Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics" is the current best book on the subject and there's a lot of usefull energy raising manipulation exercises can be found there.

His book and website is amazing!

39. Rewards given to entity: respect, sigil made from material of entity choice/element, energy, a small amount of body liquid/blood(must be disassociated first from you), certain housing to place it's sigil, lighting a candle in appreciation for result/s, etc

And strawberries, don't forget the strawberries

41. Get familiar and understand the meaning of the words of power. Ignorance rarely gives power.

You mean I should have looked up that long string of Enochian words first? j/k

42. Learn to skry! Read and practice: Benjamin Rowe's "A Short Course in Scrying"

Check out all his info on evocation, grimoires and Enochian while you are at it..

44. Drugs is a major no no! Good magician are the healthy ones.

I don't bother with them, but have met many successful magicians who use them quite effectively

57. You'll get exactly what you believe. ie: banishment or any magick will not work if you have no faith it IS working. It's all mind > learn to control your own brain!

I have found this to not always be the case. Strong beleif/faith in yourself/circle is def good though. If I were a demon I would def mess with those who think think their circle sucks, just for fun

58. Work and open up all your 7 chakra's to aid you to raise energy and more! It is probably the 7 seals mentioned on Revelation chapter of the bible. Open the chakra's at your own risk.

I'll pass on the bible study thanks. Hmm is there a danger to chackra opening? I did not know that, and fortunatly never have had a problem.

63. When one understands that THEY are the Circle, then it cannot be broken. One should also understand that they are also the BANISHING ~ I AM

And the wand, and the dagger etc. etc....

66. Ritual equipment is only an aid to focusing the mind and nothing else.

I think it is more than that, but I also think it is not necessarly needed in most cases.

70. No such thing as instant magick. No free lunch either. Patience, persistence and regular practice is key.

They had free lunch at the work bbq today But you are right, I do put in 40 hours per week for them...

72. Every aspect of evocation must be on the magician's terms. Watch your OWN mind while communicating with the entity/demons, and learn to differentiate the difference.

The Bardon watch your thoughts exercise really helps for practice with this

73. If you're worried your conjuration will not work, then chances are it won't.

Well either that or you will think it didn't work, then have something large, dark and scarey show up in your bedroom later that night asking what the hell you wanted LOL

74. Bare evocation tools: Circle, and Triangle + Seals + wand/staff/dagger/sword/spoon + Insanity.

LOL

75. A link must be established first with the entity through it's sigil and it's name by entering gnosis before you can have a successful evocation.

That also helps to give the magician some idea on whether they will get along with that particular entity.

Thanks again for summing up evocation in one post! These are just my personal opinions, not saying yours are wrong, don't work etc., just saying they are quite diff than how I do things. Of course I don't recommend my techniques for most folks LOL.

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Unread Yesterday, 06:21 PM   #33
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Okay, I'll bite. A few comments based on my own opinions and experiences- 1. Study the theory before the praxis!
Even more important - understand the theory before the practice.

4. Summoning Spirits is the most popular initiation into evocations, but Bardon's IIH is the way to adepthood.
Depends on your point-of-view. For others the Golden Dawn methods may be more suited.

5. Do not summon Lucifer for obvious reasons ;p
I disagree. If you are ready, able and willing - why not? Consider that in classical evocation, as with invocation, one works from the top down approach - for example, if using the Grimoire Verum to evoke Bechard, you must do this through Lucifer, then Satanachia.

6. Do not sit in the triangle! or morph your own face on black mirror
Looking at yourself in the mirror is the easiest way of getting a "physical" result - and has no inherent danger - just stay inside the circle

8. When someone/book said, sacrifice a virgin kid or anything like that, it meant to be body liquid/sperm, NOT a human sacrifice.
Not necessarily true - often the medieval manuscripts meant exactly what they said. Gathering the materials for the ritual is supposed to be an ordeal. Traipsing through graveyards after dark is meant to provoke a state of mind conducive to the ritual.

10. Develop astral sense and evoke astrally first.
Develop astral sense, but evoke physically first. You will still be utilising astral senses. Most people are not adept at full rituals in the astral.

11. Selling your soul and blood sacrifice is way off limits!
Blood sacrifice is a useful tool - blood and semen sacrifices are quite appropriate as they fulfill the meaning of sacrifice, namely a part of yourself freely given.

14. Evocation to pyshical manisfestation is best done out in nature or close to the ground, ie: basement, forest, beach, etc. Evoking from your apartment on the 13th floor for instance will distort manifestation.
Never heard of this nor experienced any distortion.


23. When you can, "pick" up the entity from the astral and help bring it down to the physical plane.
If entities exist on a level (whether it be astral, etheric etc) then they already have some point-of-contact with the physical world. They are not so weak as to require our assistance to experience the physical world - its just that they may not wish to!

25. Entity sigil are usually destroyed after desired result is manifested - burn, buried, thrown to body of water.
Only if okayed by the demon in the bargaining scenario...otherwise it's very disrespectful. And if you happen to be evoking an angel or similar, it's a rather bad faux-pas that may lead to some ill-feeling directed your way!

26. Result manifested will usually happens by sets of "normal" coincidences.
We exist in the physical world and are bound by its laws. Anyone who tells you that they did a ritual for money and cash dropped out of the air (for example) is nuts (IMO, of course)

27. Do not Invoke negative entities for obvious reasons.
Again, this is dependant on the experience and will of the individual. In the next month or so my lodge is preparing to invoke a demon into me, and I see no problem with this - because I have faith in the abilities of my lodge Brothers and Sisters!

36. Make your own magick and rituals. YOU are the MAGICK and the STAR. KNOW this. BE IT. Fake it till you make it. "The only limits to our Magick are our own..." - I AM
You may not last long enough to "fake it 'til you make it". But experimentation and experience will show the error of your ways

40. Triangle can be made from cardboard, circle from rope, ducktape, stone, or flour. Butter knife as dagger, your broom as staff, whatever works for YOU.
The tools can be many from many materials but should conform to appropriate symbolism and be consecrated correctly.

43. The fastest newbie successfull evocation in my knowledge is done after 3 months of training. Expect at least a year until you're ready. Remember, no quick fix, no miracles either. Expect to work hard to gain result. Magick is not the only way to solve your problem/s.
I would consider a year a quick fix........in Ceremonial terms a year in nowhere near even completing the elemental grades...and experience of these is necessarily in any theurgic or thaumaturgic work.

44. Drugs is a major no no! Good magician are the healthy ones.
Again, a matter of opinion. Good magicians are good magicians, irrespective of drugs, alcohol etc. This is like saying that authors are only good authors if they don't drink, smoke, take drugs and ingest fatty food.


56. Demons/entity may "look" differently from one mage to another. Part of them are inside your mind > based on your perception at the same time they are OUTSIDE of your mind.
If demons have any sort of sentient existence outside our minds then they should conform to standard appearance. In terms of angelic evocation - if you manifest something that doesn't appear as it should, you have the wrong entity.

57. You'll get exactly what you believe. ie: banishment or any magick will not work if you have no faith it IS working. It's all mind > learn to control your own brain!

Belief has no part in magick. Belief leaves room for doubt. It is fine to doubt before or after a ritual, but one needs certainty during the ritual, not faith. Magick is not a buzz word for positive thinking.

69. KNOWING the magick is all about faith and beliefs. Positive failth will bring positive results. Go on..delude yourself lol.. Magick is the science of using and understanding the power of the subconcious mind.
See above.

75. A link must be established first with the entity through it's sigil and it's name by entering gnosis before you can have a successful evocation.

It is ill-advised to make contact with an entity through meditation on its symbol outside of the ritual structure. Look at the issues Crowley experienced when drawing the Abramelin sigils

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Unread Yesterday, 06:55 PM   #34
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Todd,

93

I would be very interested in hearing more of your new lodge experiment. I find it pleasing that others are beginning to experiment without the trappings of the Nazarene.

By the way I have summoned Lucifer and other demons via invocation as well. It all boils down to your relationships with them and having stability within your own psyche. If one thinks of certain orders of spirits as "evil" and unclean then you certainly are not going to make any friends. If on the other hand you try to see things their way and put off the vile Nazarene filth that has been heaped upon the demons over the centuries then you may be able to forge new pathways with human/demon relations.

It is well known that not all demons are friendly to humans... you have to take these spirits on a case by case basis. It is advisable to go slow and feel your way into these dark and sinister waters. (Have you considered getting ahold of "The Shadow Tarot" by Linda F. and looking into the "Nightside" explorations published by other Typhonian Order's?)

However, I don't think you will have many problems Todd due to your experience & common sense.

Good luck!

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Unread Yesterday, 07:07 PM   #35
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93

Hi there LAM, how ya doing?

When it comes to *invoking* demons, perhaps the coolest I ever saw was a Chaote ritual for the consecration of a talisman. The talisman was mounted on a board on the altar, and the magician performed extremely energetic chants, gyrations etc whilst invoking the demon into himself. Once accomplished, he charged the talisman by spitting on it. Was very cool, and aside from a tendency for the magician in question to lapse into screams of "Hail Satan!" whilst in ploite company, there were no ill side-effects

I have to admit (and I don't wish to offend anyone here) but I am not a fan of Typhonian Magick or Kenneth Grant. I have always liked descriptions of his books as "Pornography for magicians" LOL But he is definitely interesting, although his work does seem to attract more than its fair share of whack-jobs (and no, I'm not referring to you!)

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Unread Yesterday, 07:27 PM   #36
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93

I am doing fine thanks.

Yes, there certainly seems to be many different ways to do things nowadays. I am favoring the chaos methods more and more myself. The ritual you described reminds me of the late Ben Rowe who described how the Enochian cacodemons operate. In one instance he described one of them charging a talsiman by copulating with it, among other things. Your friend sounds like he likes to get a rise out of others! (Or is it the "demon inside"?)

I will admit when handling certain materials and viewing goetic sigils along with being slightly inebriated it can bring out some negativity in me (due to my past experiences as a priest.) Otherwise I note no ill effects. Some of the demons are extremely hostile to the general way they have been treated over the centuries. Humanity has moved them from being respected God's of ancient civilizations to being a pariah.

Regarding the Typhonian Magick: I understand, it is definitely not for everybody and I have heard some crazy stories. From my own experiences the people I have had contact with have been very respectable and knowledgeable magicians. (I guess I have been lucky.)

(I am also interested in experimenting with shamanistic magick as well.)

Take care!

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Unread Yesterday, 08:06 PM   #37
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(Edit: Love your post Fiat, hope I make that clear despite my hurried post below.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_lux_777
Even more important - understand the theory before the practice.
In my experience, that isn't necessary to get results.

Quote:
25. Entity sigil are usually destroyed after desired result is manifested - burn, buried, thrown to body of water.
Only if okayed by the demon in the bargaining scenario...otherwise it's very disrespectful. And if you happen to be evoking an angel or similar, it's a rather bad faux-pas that may lead to some ill-feeling directed your way!
Please elaborate on these two opinions. First, if you want to bargain with a demon, why offer a permanent link between you and him? Second, why/how would angels hurt you because of a sigil?

Quote:
The tools can be many from many materials but should conform to appropriate symbolism and be consecrated correctly.
My most powerful tools have been made quite adhoc and without consecration. The GD tools that demanded so much labour and consecration seem very weak. Explain that, if possible.

Quote:
I would consider a year a quick fix........in Ceremonial terms a year in nowhere near even completing the elemental grades...and experience of these is necessarily in any theurgic or thaumaturgic work.
My intuition tells me that you might be correct, but please elaborate one why elemental grades in one magickal current (say LVX/GD) would be necessary for successful work in another current (say Goetia) please.

Quote:
In terms of angelic evocation - if you manifest something that doesn't appear as it should, you have the wrong entity.
Please elaborate on that. First, how would you know the "correct" look, and second, why would it be more important than for demons?

Quote:
Belief has no part in magick. Belief leaves room for doubt. It is fine to doubt before or after a ritual, but one needs certainty during the ritual, not faith. Magick is not a buzz word for positive thinking.
Finally someone who adequately put
my understanding to words!

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