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A Change In The Room! (reposted)
Old 07-31-2004, 07:37 AM   #1
Deckard
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Default A Change In The Room! (reposted)

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Deckard wrote: I began training in CM about six months ago. I have put steady effort into the LBRP and MP rituals, of which I have become quite confident. Scrying, Astral Projection and The Third Eye have been dismal failures. It seems no amount of effort will achieve any results here. I decided to proceed to evocation anyway. Three weeks ago attempted to summon Orobas. Although I was not able to feel (let alone see) that spirits presence I continued the ceremony by asking for a specific favor, imagined a favorable reply, imagined a small price to honor the spirits name (which would be obliged after I got my request), license to depart, banishing. The allotted time passed with no result. I have tried twice more with that same spirit to know avail. Earlier posts suggest the use of a trained scryer. This is impossible as I am solo with limited resources.

When I first started getting into CM I was afraid of the spirits themselves. I have become convinced that they are not what the major religions want us to think they are. While, what I don’t know about them could fill an ocean basin, I am sure that they are part of the natural universe. I am inclined to believe they are tools for us to profit by spiritually and in the physical. Perhaps they have independent existence, so they in turn might be able to profit by us also. But I am not afraid of them because they do for us/take from us what we allow them to. I am ready!



I am trying to reach the point in an evocation where the “atmosphere in the room suddenly collapses” as the spirit’s presents is felt. I believe this is the barrier to success for myself as well as many others. My question is for those who have conquered this aspect. How did you do it (if you are even aware how)? What experiences brought you to this specific point? What would you recommend?



I have begun thinking of this in relation to the first time I had sex while in high school. I did it later than most of my friends even though girls have always been attracted to me. I was scared in an intangible way. I even passed up girls I had a crush on only to see them settle for my friends and acquaintances. But my point is; when I finally got that first ‘conquest under my belt’ so to speak, suddenly I knew two things! The next time would be for us to enjoy, not to prove anything. Secondly, I would have no problem ever acting on an opportunity again, if I desired.

I must reiterate that I have read and reread virtually all of these posts. It is possible I have missed something but feel it unlikely. There is so much valuable information that now exists is one place. The work of the members of this forum, especially senior members and moderators is unequalled anywhere on the net. In fact, I think this forum is gaining momentum with a few of the more recent posts as well as the push to assemble a bigger library.

If any of you are reserved about posting a sensitive reply feel free to pm me.




Quote:
Ashnook wrote: No sensitive replies here. The first time that you dont expect anything to happen is when it will. When you let go of your expectations you will know that you have summoned the creature. I will not tell you to "look" for certain signs that the spirit is there, just preform the ritual and then at one point or another you WILL feel its presence. Also, try other spirits, maybe Orobas just doesnt want to come to you. I cant help you with any specifics about this spirit, I mostly work with entities from the simon necronomicon. Dont go into the mind set to look for signs that the spirit is there, KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT IS THERE. Then it WILL hit you and will be the most amazing feeling that is utterly undiscribable. Hope this helps.
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Ekron wrote: You are probably still putting up 'barriers' at a subconscious level a bit like you did with sex the first time. Fear in whatever form is our biggist enemy.

Try and free the mind, relax and use your WILL power. As Ashnook says "KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT IS THERE".
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Quote:
Goetiagirl wrote: I have to agree here with the original poster, I have been evoking for more than a year and have not 'felt' anything...I am a very literal minded visual person and need that prop...but something odd did happen on my last evocation. It was while I was looking at the mirror...I felt myself almost falling asleep and not because I was sleepy...I hadn't been staring that long at the mirror and suddenly my eyes did not want to stay open...I wonder can anyone tell me if I was perhaps going into trance? It seemed no matter how hard I tried to focus (even though scrying is unfocused) I began to see images in the mirror but not an actual shape...just my own appearance changing. Can anyone advise what this might have been? I've been workign with Zepar and Orobas and neither has manifested in any way...I would appreciate any advice. Thanks. Also can anyone give me their ideas of 'smoke' herbs...are they good bad or whatnot? Thanks.




Quote:
WrathfulSpatula wrote: I'd think about it this way: the demon is aware of its seal and the effort you put into the ritual. Whether it tried to manifest to you obviously or not, whether you sensed it or not, it was there, at least to some degree, and knew full-well what you were doing. First of all, you need to trust that the demon is there, even it's not paying particular attention, and that it can respond to you.

Some people feel ridiculous doing something like this, but if a thought appears in your head seemingly in reply to something you've said or done during the summoning, even if you think it was just a subconsciously-driven reaction on your part, treat that as the demon. Take up a conversation with it. Get to know it a bit, even though you're not sure that's the demon. Then, when and if you seem to be getting along with the thing, ask it for a slightly more obvious manifestion. Don't ask for something physical or complex when you're just starting out, but maybe ask if it can help you get a glimpse of its form in your mind's eye (don't be discouraged if it's not clear and/or the classical form of the demon), or if it can do anything to make its aura more obvious for you. Realize it could very well all be in your head, but do all you can to suspend your disbelief while you're talking to the demon.

Though it seemed to be working, and I was learning from my "demons", even if they were all in my head, I wasn't convinced that I'd necessarily ever really contacted a single "true" demon until one day when I was out for a walk and having a conversation with Buer. We were discussing metaphysics--specifically, a particular theory of mine I've been working on with a couple friends for the past several years--and he made a point that blew a hole in my arguement that I'd never even begun to consider. I had been over this thing a thousand times, and realized there were some weak points in it, but he wasn't even concerned with the ones I'd noticed; he made a point that, while not changing the final outcome of the theory, totally changed its structure. Thinking about that comment he made later on, a number of short conversations I'd had with him in the past suddenly made infinitely more sense. That's when I knew for sure.

Even if you feel like you're just playing into yourself, if you do it long enough, you will hold conversation with these things, and you may even realize they were there from the get-go. Just trust me, you'll have your break-through experience if you convince yourself that they're there.
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Quote:
Master of the Abyss wrote: IMHO as a sort of experienced evoker, the no. 1 reason for failed evocations is that people instinctively shy away from performing the ritual a really powerful way. You need to put a lot more energy into the whole issue to wipe away the barriers that are stopping people from evoking stuff all over the place, and are currently stopping you. These barriers wear down with time, but if they are there at the moment, adress that issue and squish them.

On the outside, this can mean doing the ritual in a good setting (I like caves and abandoned industrial plants best for demon work, but a well-equipped temple or average forest will do - all deep in the night of course), with lots of tools that get you in the mood (massive clouds of incense, robe, beautiful circle and triangle, whatever makes you tick). On the inside, try to prepare yourself by fasting, bathing and periods of long and deep trances (such as excessive prayer) shortly before the ritual. Do not smoke pot when you evoke a demon (not on the first couple of attempts at least): it will make the visualisation and calling a lot easier, but the control aspect a lot harder. I don't think meditation before the ritual is a very good idea (trance works better for me), but your mileage may vary.

Most of all, absolutely do get into your paradigm. I.e. know that the spirit is there, but also know that you are embodying divine authority, know that demons exist and that they have plagued mankind since they fell - hell, even know that Solomon himself wrote the Goetia! Of course, this is the crucial part, and the tricky one. A simple measure that can help with this is to do a whole series of banishing/centering rituals before the ritual, reinforcing both your circle and your paradigm. (Also, don't underestimate the value of goetic conjurations and the "bornless ritual".) This last bit is what is mostly a matter of experience, but a beginner can do it just as well if he just invests more time and effort in preparation and paraphernalia.

This is just one way of doing it, of course.



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Quote:
Ashnook wrote: I MUST agree with master on this, it is crucial that you put your mind set into the cermony. You dont wear a robe and carry around a sword with sigils and ancient languages on it during the average mundane day (at least most people dont lol). Put your energy into everything, dont just throw on your robe, while putting on your robe begin to feel ethrel. Fell you physical and mundane self disapear, imagine that you are only a glowing figure of pure energy. Come up with a name to use in magick, something that defines your magickal self. Also, big point, even if you fell that the spirit has not come to you or that it is gone...YOU MUST DO YOUR BANISHING RITUALS. Do them with all your might and energy, whether you think that the spirit came or not.
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Quote:
Goetiagirl wrote: Hi again thanks for the replies. I have gotten lots of good info from you guys. I am going to try another evocation as I gave Zepar a deadline of May 17...but from speaking to others I am getting the impression that while somethign did show up it might not have been zepar. Anyone out there have dealings with him and what he normally brings with him? I've heard he's pretty boisterous...though I'm guessing that might not be the same for everyone what are your thoughts?




Quote:
Deckard wrote: Thank you for your replies. So far you have given me some good insight.

Am I correct in assuming that in earlier attempts I was telling myself what I wanted to hear?




Quote:





Ashnook wrote:


Don't go into the mind set to look for signs that the spirit is there, KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT IS THERE. Then it WILL hit you and will be the most amazing feeling that is utterly undiscribable. Hope this helps.



I am hoping once that feeling hits me, I will be able to communicate with it in some meaningful way and work with it.


Quote:




Ashnook wrote:


Come up with a name to use in magick, something that defines your magickal self.



This is something I have not done yet.

Master of the Abyss,
You have some great ideas. Not all are possible right now but they will be filed away for future use.

WrathfulSpatula,
Your reply seems like good advice. I wonder though, do you undertake many operations in a non ritual setting? Also you sort of questioned the 'reality' of your relationship with Buer untill that walk. Was he considerably more at your service after that incident? Have you used him for healing?




Quote:
I AM wrote:

Quote:




Master of the Abyss wrote:


IMHO as a sort of experienced evoker, the no. 1 reason for failed evocations is that people instinctively shy away from performing the ritual a really powerful way. You need to put a lot more energy into the whole issue to wipe away the barriers that are stopping people from evoking stuff all over the place, and are currently stopping you. These barriers wear down with time, but if they are there at the moment, adress that issue and squish them.

On the outside, this can mean doing the ritual in a good setting (I like caves and abandoned industrial plants best for demon work, but a well-equipped temple or average forest will do - all deep in the night of course), with lots of tools that get you in the mood (massive clouds of incense, robe, beautiful circle and triangle, whatever makes you tick). On the inside, try to prepare yourself by fasting, bathing and periods of long and deep trances (such as excessive prayer) shortly before the ritual. Do not smoke pot when you evoke a demon (not on the first couple of attempts at least): it will make the visualisation and calling a lot easier, but the control aspect a lot harder. I don't think meditation before the ritual is a very good idea (trance works better for me), but your mileage may vary.

Most of all, absolutely do get into your paradigm. I.e. know that the spirit is there, but also know that you are embodying divine authority, know that demons exist and that they have plagued mankind since they fell - hell, even know that Solomon himself wrote the Goetia! Of course, this is the crucial part, and the tricky one. A simple measure that can help with this is to do a whole series of banishing/centering rituals before the ritual, reinforcing both your circle and your paradigm. (Also, don't underestimate the value of goetic conjurations and the "bornless ritual".) This last bit is what is mostly a matter of experience, but a beginner can do it just as well if he just invests more time and effort in preparation and paraphernalia.

This is just one way of doing it, of course
.




Master of The Abyss has said almost all of what I would have said. And VERY well too. I would emphasize some of his points again.

1. ...know that you are embodying divine authority. You are a God.
2. ...know that demons exist.
3. ...do a whole series of banishing/centering rituals before the ritual, reinforcing both your circle and your paradigm. Do these Banishings afterwards as well.
4. ...don't underestimate the value of goetic conjurations.
5. ...try to prepare yourself by fasting, bathing and periods of long and deep trances (such as excessive prayer) shortly before the ritual.

6. ...doing the ritual in a good setting.
7. ...a beginner can do it just as well if he just invests more time and effort in preparation and paraphernalia.

8. ...the no. 1 reason for failed evocations is that people instinctively shy away from performing the ritual a really powerful way. Remember, you are Divine and a Warrior.

I will add to these powerful statements that you must KNOW that your conjuring will be successful. You are a Warrior. Perform the Ritual with courage.

Do not expect to get the answer in the way you talk to a human. You may hear a voice in your head. You may SEE your answer. Additionally, do not assume that if the entity does not appear to you visably that you have failed. Most likely YOU HAVE NOT.

The collapsing atmosphere is best brought about by fully embracing your Divinity within. Knowing you are a God. The more you are aware of this the more success you will have. At least that has been my experience. This not only adds to the power of the experience but will allow you to SEE and HEAR more as well.

Again, Master of The Abyss has answered superbly.

Humbly, I AM
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:29 AM   #2
LadyHydralisk
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These are an awesome set of posts I hope everyone seriously considering infernal evocation pauses to review these and contemplate them. Oh but one more thing, incense, candles and a special kind of tool known as a "spirit light" can aid in your senses. Not necessarily a change in the room, but helpful if your skin is a bit thick.

A spirit light is an oil lamp, where the oil is infused with magical herbs, and colloidal gold, plants such as chamomile will do fine.
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