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Will and Wands and Goetia
Old 10-31-2004, 10:19 AM   #1
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Default Will and Wands and Goetia

Questions to the experienced Goetia practitioners here (or actually any other experienced "summoners"):

I have the intuition that I should use my Wand and my Will better in evocations to make the spirit perform my intents. However, I have yet to find a single source of information on the subject.

How do you specifically use your Will in connection to evocations?

How do you specifically use the Wand in connection to evocations?

How do you specifically use the GD Rainbow wand in connection to evocations? (It is my only Wand.)

How do you specifically use the generated L.V.X. in connection to evocations?

How do you best combine your Will and the Wand in connection to evocations?

IN ORDER TO make the spirit appear faster and stronger and, more important, to get the spirit to perform your will out there, IRL, that is, practical results.

/Grab
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:30 PM   #2
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I'm not sure. I use a combination of respect, flattery and reasonable business acumin to get them to do what I want. I've never had trouble making a spirit appear. My wand has some power but I don't use it to be honest. I don't have a GD Rainbow wand. What is a L.V.X.? Will and the symbolic wand are the same thing in my perspective.

I use my will, in connection with evocations, as being a representation of the higher laws above the physical plane. The inviolable laws of the universe made manifest in my desires at some small level. This means that my requests and desired questions must be in accordance with justice or love. Therefore the infernal is more likely to obey my requests. Is there no greater honor than to fulfill thy duty to the supreme source of all?

This will can be visualized more readily in a long, phallic like instrument, since that side of the universe -intellect- is the yang principal. So it is a visualization tool?
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Old 10-31-2004, 05:16 PM   #3
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"What is a L.V.X.?"

Lux, is the Latin for "LIGHT"
Light, as you know, Being the extension of God...Divine Illumination within the Self.

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"This will can be visualized more readily in a long, phallic like instrument, since that side of the universe -intellect- is the yang principal. So it is a visualization tool?"

I think you answered your own question here Yes, it's for Visualization purposes. This is a very elementary concept, and you're very adept with the practise of Evokation; it confuses me that you didn't know this.
(I say this out of total respect...just to state that i'm bewildered; not that you are an imcompotent Magickian, this I do not believe in the slightest).

Light/Lux in Extension,
Rossco Giordano

EDIT: spelling error
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:39 AM   #4
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Ah, the source. Why are there little dots in between the letters? :::rubs you with sandpaper to add to annoyance factor::


Quote:
Yes, it's for Visualization purposes. This is a very elementary concept, and you're very adept with the practise of Evokation; it confuses me that you didn't know this.


Lol! I put a question mark for another reason, Rossco. I am sure you know it, useful tool here.
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Lol! I put a question mark for another reason, Rossco. I am sure you know it, useful tool here.
I completely fail to understand what you are referring to, LadyH! Please elaborate.
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk
Ah, the source. Why are there little dots in between the letters? :::rubs you with sandpaper to add to annoyance factor::

LOL seems we have confusion all around. Lvx or Lux is latin for light, which is a symbol of the divine light, Light in extension, yada, yada, yada...

L.V.X. with the fun little dots generally stands for the lvx signs or the adept grade signs of the Golden Dawn. It all ties in together and it is a long story I would rather not go into now. I am not sure how Grab plans to use them in evocation except as part of the hexagram ritual or as testing signs. Maybe he can clear that up.

BTW Grab when you say GD rainbow wand are you refering to the lotus wand or the streamlined version of Kraig's?
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:02 PM   #7
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"Ah, the source. Why are there little dots in between the letters?"- Hydralisk

I, honestly, have NO IDEA what the dots are for...I just figured, "Hey, Aleister Crowley writes it like that, so I should too!"
You can rub me with sandpaper all you want, but that's not going to change a damn thing about our relationship! If you want to seriously confront me about this issue in person, do so...I'm pretty "rough around the edges" and could use a slight tuning-I am but a Rough Ashlar seeing to become Perfect (in all ways).

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"Lol! I put a question mark for another reason, Rossco."- My Evil Nemesis

...How do you know my name? Did Marbas tell you about our secret affair within the Triangle of the Art last time you held communion with him?
It was supposed to be a secret, that I had him change into physical form of a goat-so I could begin the Moon Howling Ritual on shrooms-and have my naughty little way with him.
I am relentless in my pursuit of Satan! Hail, STAN!

Have you been commnicating the Initiated Secrets to the "Profane" again? I will report you to the Caliphate!

With Love,
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:05 PM   #8
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Perfect Ashlar=Cube proportionate by all squares in equal measure to each other.
A Cube, unfolded, is a Cross
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero
LOL seems we have confusion all around. Lvx or Lux is latin for light, which is a symbol of the divine light, Light in extension, yada, yada, yada...

L.V.X. with the fun little dots generally stands for the lvx signs or the adept grade signs of the Golden Dawn. It all ties in together and it is a long story I would rather not go into now. I am not sure how Grab plans to use them in evocation except as part of the hexagram ritual or as testing signs. Maybe he can clear that up.

BTW Grab when you say GD rainbow wand are you refering to the lotus wand or the streamlined version of Kraig's?
OK, with L.V.X. I just mean the divine light generated by all the ritual stuff (Watchtower or whatever) you do before the actual conjuration.

That is, do you do something specific with the light, to aid the working?

I meant the Kraig version, but if you have ideas for using the Lotus wand instead, I'd be happy to hear that, and then try to convert those ideas myself. But ANY wand-using hints would be grealy appreciated!

I have now read through 12 different (heavy) magick books, including 2 Crowley and Bardon's PME etc, and none of them really write anything on how to practically use the wands! They just write "symbol for the will of the magician" yadda yadda.
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:07 PM   #10
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fun...little...dots? lol im going to bed I cannot stop laughing!

Well Grab if I try to make myself actually sound like an idiot, sometimes I can defray potential flaming. (in other folders, actually it is unnecessary in the CM folder)

BTW thanks for explaining LVX. Is there any reason for saying it in latin and not english? Are you trying to be cool? >:O
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk
BTW thanks for explaining LVX. Is there any reason for saying it in latin and not english? Are you trying to be cool? >:O
Why to be cool of course. Why else do magicians do the things we do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grab
OK, with L.V.X. I just mean the divine light generated by all the ritual stuff (Watchtower or whatever) you do before the actual conjuration.

That is, do you do something specific with the light, to aid the working?


Ok I am not trying to be an ass but it sounds like you are missing some important points here. You do not "generate" the light. You call the light to you. You stimulate the light. You recall your connection to the light. A small point but an improtant one. Once you understand this you might be able to better know what to do with it. The light is your link to the divine. The light is you. The light is the magick. Understand?
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:42 PM   #12
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YOU draw the Rays of Horus from the Sun...and then project your Will through the Wand.
When you're not using your Wand, your hands will do just fine.

There is nothing ultra-secret about the Wand's use in Ritual other than what you've read-that it is just an Exntension of yourself (or Light projected in Ritual).
Consider Nero's point about the Light...that there is an Art to drawing the Light to yourself, and then projecting that Light. (This process usually symbolized in the form of the Rod/Wand...the link between the Crown and the Earth; Sliding up the Tree of Life like a Serpent and Raining Down like a Sword)...the Star/Light travels in this way.
The Wand is merely a Symbol of this process.

Just so long as it is intellectually understood, you needn't do anything with a Wand in Ritual...or use any tools but your own body, voice,will, etc.

-EliphasLeviathan-
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero
it sounds like you are missing some important points here. You do not "generate" the light. You call the light to you.


Okey... I perform certain actions in my circle that causes the light to appear. If it comes from "me" or "god" or... I'll just leave that argument for the arm-chair magicians to debate.. (in another thread please!).


Anyway, please allow me to rephrase it as: "How do you use the light called to you to improve the evocations?"

(Edit: Nero, I do understand your point, and that's even how I view the light, but the light doesn't give me much instructions for working with the Goetia or whatever.)

/Grab
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grab
Anyway, please allow me to rephrase it as: "How do you use the light called to you to improve the evocations?"

/Grab

The light will not "improve" your evocation. Without the light you will be unable to do an evocation in the first place. Your connection to the divine or light is what makes possible for you to call the spirit, interact with the spirit, and hopefully protect yourself from the spirit. I am not trying to start a debate I am only trying to answear your question.
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:07 PM   #15
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I know, Nero, and I appreciate it!

Though what you write about the L.V.X. makes sense, my experiences contradict it. I have performed several strong evocations without any ritual (I'm well trained in the realms of self-hypnosis).

Anyway, let's move on to Wand discussions, please?
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Old 11-02-2004, 03:33 AM   #16
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I use the Air dagger more than anything.
GBRP/SBRP corresponding to their elemental nature(s)
God-forms etc.
Use the Wand with the GBRH corresponding to their planetary nature(s)
The index in the Weiser edition has the zodiacal correspondances, just convert to planetary; and there you go.
I will say however, that the second method (GBRH) is way more extreme and I have rarely dealt with anything that did not respond favorably to the first (Pentagrams)
As far as Will goes, True Will?
Samekh, obviously before the actual evocation works to align your Will.
Might not be very conscious at first, but at least its there.
May I suggest that you consider TO MEGA THERION's comments on familiars.
There are some parallels with servitors that you might want to consider if you haven't already done so.

If you see Lucifer, tell him he owes me money...
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Old 11-02-2004, 04:36 AM   #17
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I am unaware of The Master Therion's views on Familiars...Could you please educate me about what he says about them?


If you see Xa05, tell her that the money is in the mail, and that I apologize for the delay...
-Rossco-
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:10 AM   #18
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Leviathan, the passage I was refering to is MTP Chapter XI.
And, as per my post, relates to elemental familiars.
My later comment was that there are parallels to consider when dealing with servitors.
Yes?
I am trying to point out the theory of the Magical Link and call to attention that an evocation is not a one-time thing. Better to view it as an on-going relationship.
Those people who are starting out may not have had this opinion shared with them.
Nobody told me that with my first evocation I would be starting a relationship with a Goetic entity that would carry on for years (its been about 5 now)
Evocation is a high form of the Royal Art and while I encourage the practicing of it, I believe that education is very necessary when dealing with it.
Ya know, sometimes I'm plotting along and guess who decides they want some "attention" ?
One of those "demons" that I evoked years ago, sometimes it's like the ex that you don't really want to talk to.
Also, the relevance of the passage relates to the interconnectivity of the whole affair.
That which the elemental suffers the magician feels most intensely.
Parallel in relation to servitors in my Universe.
I guess my emphasis was on methodology, working with Goetic beings as opposed to finding new and more powerful ways to torment them and bring them under the magicians will. This is occassionally necessary.
But who hasn't been through hell(e) as a result of a Goetic working?
Is this necessary?
Could it be that, based on the theory of reciprocals, that which one sends out returns.
More specifically in the interaction between the magician and called spirit.
Is one really subjugating one's will when one is wrestling with a goetic demon?
Doesn't LMD say "DEMONS ARE OUR FRIENDS"?
If so, they might not always want to be called up and it is rather insulting to start barking orders at them and then hurting them if they don't comply.
Ever have a friend call and ask a favour that you didn't really want to do?
Imagine that this friend "summoned" you to their house and then if you were somewhat apathetic or lathargic they started cursing you in the name of the Gods.
I would love to see more posts or threads involving magical ethics and philosophy because these are very important topics.
Noone seems concerned with the consequences, and if they do they seem scared that things are going to get "scary"
Two extremes.
I would say that evocation carries with it a responsibility, that one would work WITH the spirit and respect its right to exist.
It's like having a pet/friend/girl(or boy)friend etc.
No one thinks it's fair to beat the dog because it won't fetch;
people seem to think the only option in an evocation is to fight the entity, boss it around and make it do stuff that pleases the magician.
For those I would say check out the BDSM scene you can find slaves there and then maybe have some experience in what having a human slave entails.
Is that a safe parallel?
Cowley himself says be firm with the spirits, yes; but he also warns against being TOO harsh doesn't he?
Just some thoughts.

Man, that's awesome! Satan paid me back.
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:34 AM   #19
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Very important topic indeed.

As I recall, Crowley advocated the practise of the Spirit Chain for those spirits which rebel.
But stated, that through his entire career, he's only had to use it once...and that it did work.

I don't mean to say that your views are "wrong" when I state the following:

But I don't understand everybody's contempt, everybody's sympathy for these Spirits that are bound to our will, subject to our command. I believe the error is in humanising them.
I can't side with the individuals, or people that faithfully negotiate with these beings...or allow leeway and go out of THEIR way to get something from them...when, you can simply employ the use of force (through God Names) and they'll do it anyways, without receiving jack!

Of course, I do not advocate the practise of performing these evokations for ego-driven purposes...but to accelerate, much in a way that you hinted, spiritually.

I think you have so much understanding on this subject, and have such high insight...but I don't understand the relation which you hold to these spirits, of admirable respect, sympathy even.

Can you explain to me further as to WHY we should act in such a manner?
I am aware of observing my manners when engaging in conversation with people, or simply adopting the customs of a culture when visiting a foreign country...but I believe this differs VERY much from dealings with these beings.
While, yes, I do believe it important in these Evokations to be respectful; I do not see the reason to allow such lee-way for these beings...or allow for unecessary negotiations.

-Leviathan-
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:54 AM   #20
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As long as you go into the working with emotion, will, and proper procedure, you should have no problem. Beyond the circle, triangle, the demon, and you, not much else is NEEDED. Props can be nice, but it probably won't effect the results of the ritual if you don't have all the trimmings; in fact, excess tools and such can impede the work because they can be distracting. Treat the demon with a little more respect than it deserves, and the demon is more likely to comply. Overall, skill and wisdom are your greatest ally.

P.S: Try to pick up a smattering of Latin. It will really help you in the long haul with not only magick, but also grammar and spelling. This is coming from a Latin student, so take this with a grain of salt, but I don't doubt demons would respect you a bit more than the average guy if you bothered to learn more than the average magician.
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Old 11-02-2004, 06:24 AM   #21
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Leviathan,
I Understand what you are saying.
I don't humanize goetians.
I don't make deals or negotiate with goetians.
I have tried several different approaches with goetians over the years.
I cursed them, I used god-forms and names, I tried many different approaches.
The major theme I have found is that everything comes with a price.
I really don't believe that a goetian never gets anything from the deal.
I liked what Lon did with his 1st.
"As I ascend, so shall you ascend" (Qoute from memory)
I think that some people negotiate to set the price on their terms.
Any evocation comes with a price, here's a personal example.
I did an evocation after breaking up with a girl.
Can you guess what the working was for? (heh heh)
I decided I wanted to get laid.
Sounds like a good way to deal with the pain of an intimate break-up.
'Kay, did the working, nice and demonic, had demonic visions, had demonic dreams that night. Things got nice and demonic, so I knew that the presence had at the very least left an impression on my psyche (or subconscious)
Great, some coincidental inconviences. Could be tied to working, but could also not be tied to working.
No major results for a month, few dates but not a lot of sex.
Later I was sleeping and felt something bite me, I woke up and saw a Spider crawling up my wall. Looked bad, like a black widow, I instinctively killed it.
Okay, next day I woke up and my ENTIRE Arm up to my elbow was red and swollen and pus-y and it hurt. It f*king hurt.
Went to the clinic, I was told the poison of whatever bit me was travelling towards my heart.
I recieved some medication and that was that.
I saw a friend later and told him what happened, he told me that there was a nest nearby,
of Black Widows.
Sh*t.
I couldn't sleep for months and eventually had to move out of my place.
I had done Goetia in my apartment.
Could be tied to the working, could not, right?
So, after chasing girls for a couple of months I decide I was just gonna start f*king.
So I did.
And I did and did and did and did.
I don't need to go into great detail or brag or anything but I f*ked alot of girls.
But I wasn't f*king anyone special, sure they were pretty some had nice faces/bodies/etc.
I got what I asked for.
But is it really what I needed.
The thing was I went through months of insomnia, arachnaphobia and dates with annoying girls before I got to the rewards of the working.
I'm really positing an effective/safe/relatively pain-free method of working with goetians.
The thing is there are so many theories about the Ars Goetia that I believe in trying these on for size.
I really hate hiding behind the aspect of Crowley and the 8=3
"... I swear to interpret every phenomina(SP!!!) as a particular dealing of God with my Soul"
(quote from memory)
but really I find that the evocations really just wind up there anyway, or atleast shows me a portion of my True Will.
So thats generally what I wound up using the evocations for.
I guess you could call it "Goetia for Yellowbellies"!
but it's what works for me, less crazy sh*t tends to happen to me if I don't put a lot of specifics on the goetic entities.
This is why I tend to take a more compassionate view.
Another Crowley 8=3 (again, I'm sorry)
(I swear....That I will Love All Things" once again quote from memory and capitals are probably mine.
I dunno if I really have much insight into Goetia, I have lots of personal experience and would love it if ANY of my long-winded ramblings would help anyone interested/involved.
One of the things I love about Thelema, more specifically A A is that one is necessarily bound to help humanity.

I really agree that the proper Method is what works for you.
but I also see that there are hard lessons or experiences that may not be necessary to every individual.
It's about making it easier for those who follow or are your spiritual heirs.
This is what the magicians of the 1900's did. (GD et al.)
Because quite a bit of information would be harder to find if it weren't for their efforts.
Thanks for the space.
Xa05
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Old 11-02-2004, 07:10 AM   #22
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I would like to add that Goetia should be a last resort, and that such workings should be last on the arsenal of your average magician. First goes regular outpouring of Will, next comes Chaos magic, then comes the Greater Seals of Solomon (they seem a bit safer [in experience]), then comes Enochia, and then Goetia. ( this is my personal list of usage, but anyone is welcome to tinker a great deal with it. If someone steals your wallet, don't summon Andromalius to kill the theif and bring back the wallet, try other, safer, and perhaps more rational methods first. A Chaos sigil could probably do the same job, and the price and time required would be less. Using demons for such things can be like using an atomic bomb to demolish a doll house; probably a simple hammer could do the trick. Sometimes, acting rationally can speak a lot louder of wisdom to the spirits than you dragging their scary selves into a duct tape triangle and shouting commands at them....really try to look at things from their point of view. If you look like a fool in this perspective, they probably will take you as a fool and either ignore or twist your command against you.
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Old 11-02-2004, 12:33 PM   #23
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Xa05,

You make a point that I has me perplexed. Isn't a goetic evocation a rather extreme way to get laid? I can think of plenty that are not even remotely magickal!

I'm fascinated by the spiders though - did you find any link to the working?
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Old 11-02-2004, 03:09 PM   #24
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Absinthe,
what are the most common spells that beginners use.
Love spells, Money spells, spells to "get something" spells for revenge and spells for the acquisition of power.
Now anyone knows that eventually there is a realization that really it's easy to get ANY of the above items.
However, use of True Will or Universal Currents/Will is not necessarily in the arsenal of the beginning magician.
I got laid yeah, maybe I was a loozer for using magick for that end.
Probably could have gotten there myself (definitely)
But then there would be one less magical story for me to blab off.
The feelings surrounding an intense break-up.
Blah blah blah, really no need to make excuses.
So yeah I got laid, tons.
My magical ethics have evolved that I don't use evocation for these types of ends.
This is what I was trying to get across.
What I wanted, IMHO is not really the point.
The point I was trying to make is that everything in evocation comes with a cost.
I don't really care why people use goeticks, that's their business.
Its really up to you what you do with it...
My point is there are other opportunities when working with the Ars Goetia.
This is I guess a part of my working the 30 aethyrs.
A governor of one of the Aethyrs showed me a portion of the Universe.
Saying something like "there are beings that long for Union with everything in the Universe"
yet again, I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote in my diaries, but I think I've got the spirit.
Using evocation for strictly material ends limits the possibilities of the Grimoire,
but hey I guess for some the goal of magick is strictly material.
I've found the Great(est) Work for me is always at the very least partially mystical.
Finally, the working wasn't simply to "get laid" there was more to it than that.
Just a facet; posting all of the evocation ritual(s) in full detail that I've done would be too lengthy, and I'm not sure if people are really that interested in reading my already long-winded threads.
So in summation of the first question "Yes, goetia is a rather extreme way to get laid"
however most people don't fuck more than 30-40 people in a year.
Goetia works, sometimes only too well.

Secondly, I believe that the working probably had something to do with the spiders.
I don't know if proper scientific method would necessarily prove it, but my intuition tells me that they're connected.
If you do something "bad" "bad" things usually happen to you. re: Levi's statement that evocation is a crime against Nature.
However if we move beyond "Good" and "Evil" I guess I would just say that the spiders made things extremely uncomfortable.
Much like summoning and cursing a demon must be somewhat uncomfortable for the demon.
Magick works, the real trick is finding the right use of the power (right action)
Spiders are sacred to Tiphareth, I'm sure the kabbala is endless...
They also denote impending Fortune if seen in a dream, I dunno what a spider bite of such an intense nature would symbolize though, and I basically dreamt of spiders when I managed to fall asleep by trying not to consciously think of spiders.

Final statement: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Take a look at why you are doing something, if you can find the First Cause, then you have way more Insight, Understanding and Options before getting into something that you did not expect.
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Old 11-02-2004, 03:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
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As far as Will goes, True Will?
Samekh, obviously before the actual evocation works to align your Will.
Actually, I referred to just the regular Will, not the True Will. That is, my ad-hoc Will that wants business success, etc.

Samekh is the distorted Headless Rite from the Abaris paryrus, yes? I usually follow the original manuscript, but anyway, it's good and I like it. Sometimes I do use the AC Tahuti invocation instead. Any comment on that?

Quote:
May I suggest that you consider TO MEGA THERION's comments on familiars.
There are some parallels with servitors that you might want to consider if you haven't already done so.
Reading it right now!

Xa05, about the Wands, I was more wondering how to use the Wand while communicating with the spirit. Do you hold it towards the spirit and imagine projecting its symbolic power into the spirit to make it better understand the strength of your will power, while repeating your intent... or something completely different?

Especially with the Rainbow Wand it'd be interesting how one could use different bands of the wand for different parts of the communication - perhaps I hold it on the white band when welcoming the spirit, and holding green (or whatever) when discussing something and then black when giving the "order" / the wish / the intent.

I'm just guessing here. Any ideas?
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Old 11-02-2004, 03:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan
there is an Art to drawing the Light to yourself, and then projecting that Light.

Ah, I just found this little gem in your post Leviathan! How specifically do you project the light, and where, and for what purpose?

/Grab
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Old 11-02-2004, 03:24 PM   #27
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traditional evocation usually has you using a sword and holding it at the sigil, downwards,
for making the spirit obedient.
Another good read is the stuff Crowley wrote on pentagrams and other methods of "testing and controlling the spirits"
I know MWT has relevant chapters corresponding to this.
If you want to show the strength of your will power, why not use the seat of that power.
Whatever it may be.
The only use I can think of for a wand in evocation, other than the explicit directions occasionally occuring is for hexagrams.
This is primarily what I use my Wand for (hexagram or planetary energy)
But hey, whatever works.
Maybe just play around with the concepts and when you want to do another evocation use the plan you have created, see if it works any better than your previous workings.
It's an Art and you've got to find what works best for you after the preliminaries are over.
That's another great thing, my relationship with Belial is going to be different than your relationship with Belial.
What makes him work for you, may not make him work for me.
There are fairly common methods, but everyone has their own "tweek" that improves on the exchange.

DO YOUR WILL.
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Old 11-02-2004, 04:08 PM   #28
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Xa05, I read your reference to MTP/XI but didn't get the point you were trying to make. Could you please elaborate on how elemental familiars and servitors are related to working with the Goetia demons?

Edit: And thanks, btw, for some very good posts in this thread.
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Old 11-02-2004, 07:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grab
Ah, I just found this little gem in your post Leviathan! How specifically do you project the light, and where, and for what purpose?

/Grab

Becoming the Central Sun, you will find it possible to Project these Rays of Light upon whichever Work you choose to undergo; this Light is nothing more than a projection of the Will-Influencing Matter with Spiritual Means.
In some cases, however, there are reports of this Light not being so invisible, but viewable by the physical eyes.

The Art of Projecting that Light, is of the highest secrets of the OTO. Obviously, (or at least in my case) absorbing this Light was far easier to do than to Willfully project it.
The challenge, my friend; is not in climbing the Tree (assuming the form of the Serpent, as you are the Star); but allowing that Light to reign down upon you (the Sword)-and, perceiving this exchange simultaneously (Symbolism of the Rod or Wand), between the Star's travels in the form of the Serpent and the Sword simultaneously-will you then be able to acqire Spiritual Will...Will is power, and power; Influence of the Will about those things, events, people around you.


Specifically: I've projected the Light/Current in my own Operations, and to test my own spiritual advancement, upon material things; of course, affecting the astral, mental psyche of another, or Increasing clairvoyance at Will is a far easier thing to do than to manipulate the physical world by spiritual means.
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Old 11-02-2004, 08:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xa05
traditional evocation usually has you using a sword and holding it at the sigil, downwards...

I have read in one of Crowley's Works, that pointing the Dagger or Sword interchangably within the Triangle that the Spirit has been evoked in, or as you've stated; pointing the Dagger/Sword at the Spirit's Sigil itself- tends to make the Spirit more inclined to obey your Will.
This is so, because Spirits are (believe it or not) Simple Beings. To point the Dagger/Sword at them is to make them Complex, it is to seperate them in many facets...which is discomfort to the Spirit-and a method which I advocate-but that it should only be used in times of need, that is-when the Spirit has shown an inclination to not obey your Word/Will.

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Xa05- I must commend you; it's rare that I've encountered someone as Adept as you in this Art (Magick in general, but specifically your knowledge of Evokation). Your posts in regards to your own Spiritual Growth are a learning experience for not just the beginner, but even those who have indepth-personal experience may draw from what you've said, and further apply it to their own situation.
I value your presence here on OF.

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Old 11-02-2004, 08:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan
acqire Spiritual Will...Will is power, and power; Influence of the Will about those things, events, people around you.

Specifically: I've projected the Light/Current in my own Operations, and to test my own spiritual advancement, upon material things; of course, affecting the astral, mental psyche of another, or Increasing clairvoyance at Will is a far easier thing to do than to manipulate the physical world by spiritual means.
That is very fascinating and intriguing, and still I might not have understood you, because I still don't understand how to (specifically) use it in evocations. Do you project this light into the spirit, into the triangle, or...?

/Grab
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Old 11-02-2004, 11:26 PM   #32
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Lon Milo Duquette has mentioned that he evokes HIS emotions, HIS desires, and HIS will into the Triangle, so that the Demon may appear.

However, I have to disagree with him on this point: I have, through research, found that you don't need to project your Thoughts, Emotions, Desires, or Will for the Spirit to even appear...that it will appear, even if you recite the Evokation hap-hazardly and without that feeling of *trying* to make the demon appear which so many of our fellow OF Magickians seem to do.

The Light (which is drawn by Ritual, or in this case Ritual 666); is primarily used to further protect, preserve, and make stronger the link between you and The Highest.
I haven't even attempted to project that Light into the Triangle...I see no real reason to do so...Theoretically, as far as I am concerned; any extension to the Triangle from the self (outside of the circle) is but a Being's entrance to the inside of that circle.
Inside that circle, is to be inside yourself...this can lead to possession. Obsession of the spirit's "being".

However, I have performed the evokation without a protective circle, or construct of any sort...and, though was attacked by a being, made it subject to my will and had it perform a command (though it didn't perform it to the extent that I wished it to...and this is so because I hadn't bound it in the Triangle of Art).

I have also performed the Evokation without constructing a physical circle, just included the Triangle, (Dagger should I need it) and the Demon's Sigil as physical tools...and the Evokation went perfectly.

Another time, (when I had first began to work with the Goetics a year ago), I had it in my head to perform this incredible Ritual, in which I would raise the Goetics to the Heavens...I wont go in to detail of how I did this, because I believe it to be of strict importance and advantage in defense against others who are familiar with this art, and those who I would defend myself against should I be forced...suffice to say; I angered the Demons to a great extent-while others bent to my will, bowed before me and asked with humility, "Master, how may I service you?"

This is a very delicate science, I would advise whoever interested to make careful notation of their experiments-it will only make you more Adept at this Art.
You never know, one day you may need it.
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Old 11-03-2004, 03:02 AM   #33
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First off, thanks for the positive feedback. Awesome.
Okay, I have ABA.
The relevant passage is this:

At the same time, the Magician must realize that in undertaking the karma of any elemental, he is assuming a very serious responsibility.
The bond which unites him with that elemental is love; and, though it is only a small part of the outfit of a Magician, it is the whole of the outfit of the elemental.

and,

He will, therefore, suffer intensely in case of any error or misfortune occuring to his protegee.

While I have it out, the chapter of The Nature Of The Magical Link is also very relevant.
My point is this:
Some Goeticks are like elemental familiars, you're keeping them as servitors, yes?
In fact, some Goeticks can be used as familiars.
Ars Goetia's description of some of the denizens states that they can also give excellent familiars.
Crowley's preface posits that the spirits of the Goetia are parts of the brain.
You want to take care of your brain.
(this is just one take on it)
here's a take:
You want something, you evoke, ask or command, etc.
Now you have to work with the spirit to make it happen.
Not obsessively, actually it works best without lust of result, if you forget the object of your desire completely.
But on whatever level you've set up a working relationship with this being.
It's like their an employee of you, if, as Leviathan says they are simple beings you have developed a responsibility that you have to maintain.
That responsibility is up to you, treat them as you will.
But, I've found that occassionally they get pissed if you aren't treating them that well.
Here's another point: Evocation is not a once off working.
You are establishing a magical link with another being.
This is my point, take it or leave it or do what you like with it.

My brain is starting to hurt. I hope I'm making sense
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xa05
Some Goeticks are like elemental familiars, you're keeping them as servitors, yes?
Servitors to me are created from scratch by the magician for a specific purpose. Appearently there is another definition. What definition do you use, so that geotia spirits be servitors?

I evoke them, ask them for microcosmic improvements (if I was into knitting it might be "help me master the art of knitting" or whatever) which they seem ever so eager to perform - and sometimes ask them for macrocosmic help (such as "make my knit-work sell well") which IMHO rarely happens.

You are right that there sometimes is a link opened up between them and me during the first evocation, and that one might want to do a few evoks of the same spirit to get it straight. The macrocosmic "bug" still remains though.

Quote:
In fact, some Goeticks can be used as familiars. Ars Goetia's description of some of the denizens states that they can also give excellent familiars.
I am aware of that, and I know of people who use them as such - however, I was recommended to wait until after the Abyss.

Quote:
My brain is starting to hurt. I hope I'm making sense
Yes you make sense! *projecting healing light into your head*

/Grab
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:21 AM   #35
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serv-itors spirits who serve.
Sub-serv-iant spirits.
Anything that you are the Master over.
Like in Abra-Melin's list of servitors for specific beings, those in the list are under the head doode.
As far as familiars go, I guess wait until after the Abyss.
But what Abyss are we talking about.
The 10th Aethyr?
Evocation of 333?
Oath of the Abyss?
I dunno, do your Will.
Having goeticks as familiars entails a fair amount of work.
Thanks for the healing light.
Peace
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