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-   -   Summoning Spirits - Kostantinos (http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=6013)

MuRdeR 07-28-2004 04:11 PM

Summoning Spirits - Kostantinos
 
For the people who read this book, which I believe all of you cermonial magickians have read this .. What do you think about this book ?

Ashnook 07-28-2004 06:37 PM

Plainly put, I thought it was an awesome book.

palindroem 07-28-2004 06:53 PM

Caveats first . . . K seems to move the practioner through preliminaries rather quickly and does present evocation without much involvement of the Great Work.

Personally, I would assume that the book is best for people who aren't beginners. And I personally don't see the problem with attaining low magick goals using high magick means. Sorcery is viable.
I also thought it was a good read . . .
(course, I like MM too :P )

Ashnook 07-28-2004 07:00 PM

I disagree my friend, evokation can aid the great work many times...its up to the practicioner as to what he does with his summoning skills. Personally I reccomend that to be the 2nd book a "neophyte" (to refraim from using the word "newb") to read. (The first being Book 4 by AC).

palindroem 07-28-2004 11:39 PM

Sorry, my bad . . . I said that unclear.

I think Kostantinos doesn't present much concept of the Great Work in his presentation of evocation. Not that I think its all that necassary, but I understand that many find this to be a large gap in his presentation.

Frater Manjet 07-28-2004 11:58 PM

I found some valid aspects in this book ( and in "MM" as well LOL ). I agree that there is not much elucidation on the greater concepts of the Great Work; or how evokation as a skill can be used to further it.

I pose that a book relating to color theory will probably not discuss the "goal" of being an artist, what art is or even what the authors veiws on art are. So in this frame of reference "K's" book is a valid read even for just another perspective on technique and methodology.

I would point to the all too common misconception of many newcomers that these various techniques are the goal of magick. How many newbie posts have we seen here that are akin to " I'm new to magick and I want to summon ( insert name here ) ".

That being said, my primary issues are at the heart of his techniques and methodology more than lack of reference to role of evokation.

" Horizon to Horizon in the Manjet of RA" Fr. Manjet VVV


Jinjo21 07-28-2004 11:59 PM

Ashnook reccomended that book to me a while ago. I'm still in the process of reading it. So far its been a great book.

Nero 07-29-2004 12:46 AM

It is a good book. It is very much a "how-to" book for the newbi. I also like his exercises to develop your astral senses.

I find it a little strange that he uses the elemental symbols along with the tablet of union for the watchtower ritual instead of the enochian tablets but I have talked to people who use that method just fine, so to each his own. Also the method he outlines I would say is the bare minimum of protection needed. IMO if you were going to summon something a little nasty I would add some things, mainly an invokation to your higher self either using the bornless ritual, the cicero ritual, or one of your own creation.

The main problem I have with the book is that it is aimed at the pure beginner. I find this a bit careless on the author's part. Other than that if you are using this book to flesh out your information then I would recommend it to most people. Just my two cents...

phoenixstorm 07-29-2004 03:23 AM

I like the book myself, it is very interesting to say the least.

endor957 07-29-2004 06:05 AM

i have it and i can say that it is decent.

Bazaapodeh 07-29-2004 06:28 AM

very good book, he seems to have some " different " techniques from some other people , but they are pretty user friendly, heheheheh .

Ashnook 07-29-2004 07:13 AM

Though take warning: If you start working with his spirits, I reccomend you work with the angels or olympian spirits. Ive heard a few horor stories from some of the others.

Spirit 07-31-2004 01:28 PM

Summoning Spirits
 
To Anyone who has read the book Summoning Spirits:The magical art of evocation and has conjured a spirit named FRUCISSIERE.Please email me at javon@ekit.com

Thanks




Spirit

malachius 08-01-2004 08:26 AM

Frucissiere
 
Spirit,
I have recently summond Frucissiere to aid me in creating Talismans with great success . My limited interaction with this entity has been very possitive.

Malachius

Ashnook 08-01-2004 08:39 AM

I just got done evoking "chassad" from this book. Ill post my experience later tonight.

kirk88 08-01-2004 08:49 AM

Ahh Malachius, didn't you feel something wrong about Frucissiere as I did. I didn't feel comfortable around him; I mean I don't feel comfortable around any entity except for Haniel. He had some eerie energy around him and I felt that he wasn't showing his true self, I felt like there was something in him. I can't really explain it and when I asked about it, he wouldn't answer my question. I truly feel that Frucissiere is really dangerous.

JRJ26 08-01-2004 10:12 AM

Ashnook also recommended it to me, and I'm about finished with my first thorough reading. It's definitely filled with great information needed for the practicing magician. The lists of beings to work with are GREAT, as there is a good variety. I second the belief that you should start with the angels. Also, remember that this isn't the beginning and end of ceremonial magic. This isn't the ONLY way to practice, and you should keep that in mind. Work with different methods, see what works for you.

Spirit 08-01-2004 01:05 PM

Archangel Michael
 
Hey Check this out


Last night when I astral projecting just hovering around somewhere over Japan. I saw the ARCHANGEL MICHAEL. At first I thought i was seeing things, then I flew near him. We talked abit and he said it was a rare sighting for me to see him(boy was I shocked) unfourtunley we couldnt talked more becuase he evoked by somone. But I felt so happy and at peace for the whole day just for seeing him(cuase he was the first spirit I ever evoked in my life with no success)

Ludi 08-01-2004 07:37 PM

Quote:
unfourtunley we couldnt talked more becuase he evoked by somone.


Which is contrary to what others have said, that evoked beings can be in more than one place at a time.

I can hardly imagine a casual chat with the Archangel Michael!

"Fear not!"


:D

YHVH 08-02-2004 01:26 AM

Hovering??? Just taking a walk over Japan ????

1) A spirit can easily change its shape to trick you (you can do that to!!!), it¨s a common occurence.

2) Most Astral Projection techniques can¨t fully banish pure projections from the subconscious. And when I say the majority, I mean the majority.

About KONSTANTINOS¨ SUMMONING SPIRITS:

Well, I have tried his 5-step training. It is possible to achieve completion of step 4 , scrying, after hard work but his astral projection would need A LOT of time and work. I don¨t think that it should have been with the other steps, but as something special, because this way it gives the impression that AP can be achieved in 2 weeks. Well, it CAN¨T, in the majority of cases, mine included.
.
..
...
and my experience shows that 1 week for the first images in the magic mirror, 1o minute practice a day, is FAR TOO optimistic, but doable.

It¨s a how-to guide. If one wants to have one, why not????
The only thing that pisses me is the ¨craft the tools and elemental weapons, buy a cheap sword, do a consecration ritual and you¨re a magician¨ attitude. But that¨s just me, I found the book just fine for it¨s purpose.


Have you noticed that there are not ¨inspired¨ works nowadays but only these ¨how-to¨ guys??? Well, I¨m satisfied with Crowley, Bardon, Levi and co., but it¨s this bloody ¨fast food¨ way of life. Why can¨t magick be excluded from this??? I don¨t want it to be taught in open seminars like the majority of the ¨New Age¨ fluffy stuff!!! Show some mercy!

malachius 08-02-2004 01:45 AM

I agree about the eerie feeling concerning Frucissiere. However, I would say all or at least most of these entities are dangerous to work with. You have to have a real need & be ready for anything that might occur. One thing of which you may be certain - payment for this type of entity's services will most definately come due. As for Frucissere hidding something - most of these entities are liars and will trick you if you are not carefull
BTW - I think your Necroman. lessons are top notch - you deserve the thanks & appreciation of all. Please give my regards to Haniel - a truly wonderous entity
Malachius

kollision 08-02-2004 01:55 AM

I liked this book, gave history lessons and alll!

kirk88 08-02-2004 03:50 AM

Thank you for that nice compliment, Haniel was one of my second spirit that I ever evoked and I felt protected by her, maybe it was her hypnotic green eyes, or her gentle, but sometime strict personality.

Frucissere made me feel really weird and somewhat drawn to him as he seemed to be drawn to me and my oboth, my oboth seemed to start reacting to Frucissere and his presense in the house. I thought that maybe Frucissere was trying to manipulate my oboth into trying to get to me. I sware that he was hidding something within his being.

P.S. It seems using my Oboth made my evocation much stronger... :-D

Spirit 08-02-2004 06:49 AM

Well it wasnt a trick. I did ask him to sighn his name and sigil

Gryzlgreedigutt 08-02-2004 07:16 AM

Lets pretend for a minute that Fruciserre is a hollywood celebrity. I go to a convention to meet (evoke) him and he's totally cool and signs everything. A friend goes to a movie opening or something the following week and when he meets ol' Fruc' he gets brushed off rudely. maybe he was in a bad mood when you summoned him. maybe a line was drawn slightly wrong. heck (and I mean no offense) maybe he just disliked you. In other words we are subject to any possibility when interacting with humans of any and every kind,; entities are no different. "devils to some angels to others". Ever notice the more alike or attuned people are to one another the more similarities there are in their experience? So likely people with probs handling fruc' might be like you. Maybe you can talk to spirits that would despise the average person who knows. Well, just food for thought.

Grab 08-02-2004 07:53 AM

kirk88 ) If you evoke a demon from something as dark as the Grimoirium Verum, and pick the demon which "revives the dead", then no wonder it's a creepy guy.

The fact that Konstantinos doesn't even give proper references to the "spirits" he's listing is a warning flag to me.

Spirit 08-02-2004 08:25 AM

Spirit
 
Hey understand that the author Kostantinos is a conjurer himself. But why wont he FULLY discribe spirits abilitys and task. For example... today I conjured up the great fire king DIJIN. He gave me a ritual to obtain a fire power. Not only does he give out rituals needed for sucess, but rituals of power(in a firey manner of course

Nero 08-02-2004 08:31 AM

Often times a spirit will ask you not to reveal what he has told you. Also there are many things the spirit can do that is not always listed...

Just an idea.

Gryzlgreedigutt 08-02-2004 10:15 AM

Spirits are unpredictable. You literally are "playing with fire" when you step into that circle. You never know what could happen so the goal is to be prepared to deal with anything. To feel the Divine force of love flow through you. (this all merely MHO) and fill yourself with love and prayer. As I feel the atmosphere changing--even if you are summoning a totally benign spirit--it feels creepy! You have to charge through that! If you are truely afflame with prayer and love, the entity will know this and will treat you with respect. That said that doesn't mean they won't do that just to gain your trust. Or test your circle anyway. Maybe it was just curious about your circle? maybe their like kidnapping victims trying to wiggle free of the hanndcuffs while talking to you very carefully. I guess the bottom line is you must be the one in control.

Spirit 08-02-2004 11:34 PM

Malachius
 
Hey Malachius

Did you get your privrate messages. I been trying to contact you for some time.





Spirit

kirk88 08-03-2004 01:25 AM

I still don't know why Fruciserre was trying to f**k with my oboth, thats my dead spirit he needs to go out and find him his own. :lol:

Lawrence "Diablo" Leon 08-03-2004 06:54 PM

I would really like to know what is an oboth...

By the way, make a little search in Simon´s Necronomicon. There´s a Spirit who teaches you how to know if someone (including other Spirits) is lying to you. In the 2nd part of the Konstantino´s book, while listing Entities, he also shows a Spirit that does it. I can´t remember his Name now.

May you have success,
Lawrence "Diablo" Leon

Grab 08-03-2004 07:01 PM

Yes, you gotta have an Oboth to do evocations! If I remember correctly, some perverted soul a few months ago summoned YHVH Adonay and put his sigil with sulphur and what not in a box, forcing God to only allow future evocations using an Oboth. Pretty kinky, if you ask me. I just use an empty beer bottle, it works fine.

palindroem 08-03-2004 07:08 PM

Thats what I thought you all were referring to as "oboth" . . . a bottle or some water container . . . ?

I've never heard of "having to have a oboth to evoke" . . . . where do you reference this device?

As per the thread topic, it isn't part of K's book.

(I know its mentioned in the bible, but I doubt thats your source)

(Beer bottle!! . . . sounds tunafish can lid'ish :) )
(someone needs to google find that thread and reposted it, its a classic . . . really, it is)

hitman777 08-03-2004 07:18 PM

You do NOT need an oboth in order to evoke. It may work for some, but I have not been having any trouble performing successful evocations without one. Hell, half the time, I use next to no tools at all!
And, I highly doubt that "YHVH" is trapped and under the command of some magician. Personally, I think those of us here who practice would have noticed this. :roll:
Ah, Shang Tsung's classic "NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Failed my first evocation experiment! SUX" thread. Looking back, I feel kind of assinine for giving him a hard time.:lol:

fiat_lux_777 08-03-2004 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grab
Yes, you gotta have an Oboth to do evocations! If I remember correctly, some perverted soul a few months ago summoned YHVH Adonay and put his sigil with sulphur and what not in a box, forcing God to only allow future evocations using an Oboth. Pretty kinky, if you ask me. I just use an empty beer bottle, it works fine.

93

Say what? Oboth? Summoning/binding YHVH ADNI? You are joking, right? LOL.

My personal opinion is that Konstantinos is a flake, and his books of limited value. I say limited simply because (like most books on magick nowadays) they are a rehashing of other works (with some slight variations).

I agree with YHVH in his assessment of the immersion of the occult into the "fast food mentality". WIth the amount of crap available purporting to be "authoritative" texts on magick, it is no wonder we are seeing such an influx of the delusional and unbalanced. IMO of course. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm just off to evoke Choronzon and force him to do the dishes......what's that? You don't wanna do the dishes?!?!? But I command you!!!!...Arrrggghhhh!!! Who'd have thought those well-manicured nails could rip through my throat so easily??...gurgle...gurg...gu..... :evil:

93 93/93

Todd

palindroem 08-03-2004 08:11 PM

Actually, in a bit of a perverse way, I found Shang Tsung's thread to be a learning experience for me. Almost as much as Lady H's . . . of course, in a far different way
(we love you lady!)

Perhaps there is a value in the "fast food"-centric approach to todays magick. In the old days, dumbasses were avoided by making magick overly complex and throwing in blinds.
Maybe those same dumbasses today find magick ineffective via shortcuts and two month crash-courses in evocations designed for instant grat little kids.
(sorry if this is offensive. I just don't believe in the McWorld for kids)

YHVH 08-03-2004 10:32 PM

Quote:
Actually, in a bit of a perverse way, I found Shang Tsung's thread to be a learning experience for me.


I feel like a Japanese tourist, in the middle of London, surrounded by englishmen.

Who's Shang Tsung, where is his thread, etc, etc??????? I searched it on google, found the thread, but the infamous ERROR page appeared (http error or something).

Can someone give me a general idea????

Watcher 08-04-2004 12:22 AM

Okay now I have to ask. What is an oboth?

Lawrence "Diablo" Leon 08-04-2004 01:02 AM

Isn´t it some type of Alchemical Notarikon?


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