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-   -   Grimoirium imperium by John Dee (http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=6186)

guest25 08-01-2004 08:49 AM

Grimoirium imperium by John Dee
 
I was just checking books posted by "IM" and, there is that book grimoirium imperium,that spark my interests.It says under bottom,to make a sign of the cross,after turning each page,in order to not be haunted by demons.Does it involve a downloaded book also?

Qryztufre 08-01-2004 09:42 AM

it's reading it in general I'd assume. And assumeing it's real I'd suggest you heed the advice ;)

Then again, I personally think the book is suspect and am waiting on word from the practicioners of this forum to lemme know if it works...if it's real then I'll NOT be reading it fer a while...

Then again...you run the risk reading most anybook with incantations...there was a similar thread that talked about intent and reading, and reading without intent.

*shrug* Did I make any sense at all?

Q

azi dahaka 08-01-2004 09:57 AM

i would think that going by this theory, you could safely read it as long as you didn't read the incantations, since you have to say them in your mind when you read them...

JRJ26 08-01-2004 10:08 AM

oops, I didn't make the sign of the cross, so I guess the demons are going to haunt me FOREVER.

If we took everything the Grimoires said seriously all of the time, and did EVERYTHING they said, we really wouldn't have many magicians, as some of the things in them simply aren't possible today.

azi dahaka 08-01-2004 10:16 AM

Quote:
oops, I didn't make the sign of the cross, so I guess the demons are going to haunt me FOREVER.
me too...:shock:

Frater Manjet 08-01-2004 10:21 AM

ROFL ... oooh this is rich.

I thought there might actualy be a J.Dee MS that I hadn't read.

I have no issues with the various Necs, but claiming it is from J.Dee is laughable. This is an obvious hoax. I didn't need to read very much to see that.

http://www.geocities.com/imuhtuk/occult/imperium.htm

Noxlux 08-01-2004 10:53 AM

Can anyone tell if this grimoire contains traps or such?

To me it appears potent enough and not at all as malevolent as the simonomicon. What a relief to find a grimoire where just the sign of the cross will help. (I have been known to err - I will probably remember this post as I sit in a matressed cell having painted crosses everyehere like in the movie Mouth of Madness:-)

But I have no idea at all as to what kind of use to put it? What can be accomplished with it?

Jinjo21 08-01-2004 01:14 PM

I was wondering that too Frater Manjet , this didnt seem like anything john dee would write. And correct me if im wrong but John Dee was mainly an enochian man , not a necronomicon expert.

Gryzlgreedigutt 08-01-2004 01:55 PM

So whats the Lovecraft John dee connection. It the obvious next question, eh?

Redeemer 08-01-2004 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjo21
I was wondering that too Frater Manjet , this didnt seem like anything john dee would write. And correct me if im wrong but John Dee was mainly an enochian man , not a necronomicon expert.

Although I do not know for certain about it's authenticity, John Dee did not claim to write it, he claimed to have translated it.

Ludi 08-01-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:
So whats the Lovecraft John dee connection


The John Dee - Lovecraft connection? Simple. Lovecraft was a well-read man. Of course he would know about John Dee, one of the most famous magickians in history!

:D

Noxlux 08-01-2004 07:25 PM

fINALLY

Frater Manjet 08-01-2004 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer
Although I do not know for certain about it's authenticity, John Dee did not claim to write it, he claimed to have translated it.

I can assure you this is not even a translation by J.Dee. It is a hoax.

F. Manjet VVV

guest25 08-02-2004 12:50 AM

I do have another question,not really about this thread,but about evoking spirits.Soon,i will be evoking sumerian spirits,for the first time,and as you all know,each of those spirits has different powers,like one can bring you love,other can teach you,how to heal others...staff like this.Now,i want to know,if for example,i will evoke spirit,to help me win a lottery,or bring large sum of money,BUT this is not the will of god,does this evocation will work,even if i done everything correctly?I know,its a hard question,but i wonder if someone knows this.And even if this is true,does anyone had his wish granded by the spirit? and what things,you mostly ask spirits,to do for you.

O.F.I.N. 73 08-02-2004 02:24 AM

A poorly executed fraud.
 
1) The language is not Elizabethan English. Nor is it any style close to Elizabethan English, but is rather, an attempt by a 21st century speaker of English to write in an archaic fasion.

2) Abdul alHazred is a made up character, conjured by Lovecraft from his mother's maiden name, Hazard.

3) John Dee would not evoke demons. It is unlikely he would countenance translating a book devoted to such beings. He reproved Edward Kelly for trafficking with them several times.

4) Dee was a mathematician, not a translator. He might decode an enciphered manuscript, but he was not always able to do even this. He never figured out the structure of the "Book of Soyga" in his library, an enciphered manuscript recently shown to be a kind of primitive cellular automaton.

Gryzlgreedigutt 08-02-2004 03:26 AM

I'm tired of psuedo-grimoires with vague spiritual threats. I actually crossed myself after one page and felt utterly stupid. I read the rest of it without doing so and no toad-faced thing dragged my soul away. There is nothing more powerful then My Lord; And I will not cross myself--something sacred and holy-- becuz a book I've never heard of tells me to. So go ahead and scare me with warnings. God is more powerful then any stupid book. Really, people, are we adults or what? I don't wanna be a complete jerk but jeeeez.

Grab 08-02-2004 05:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryzlgreedigutt
And I will not cross myself--something sacred and holy-- becuz a book I've never heard of tells me to.

Famous last words? :lol:

Quote:
God is more powerful then any stupid book. Really, people, are we adults or what? I don't wanna be a complete jerk but jeeeez.

Well, if there WAS an xtian God, he might be more powerful than a book. But don't force your childish religion on ME, thank you very much.

As for the potency of this funny book, I think one could safely evoke one of those 20 guys into a triangle and talk to him. But is it safe to visit them astrally?

Nero 08-02-2004 06:30 AM

I may be wrong but I think the title of the book comes from one of the books the main character had in his library in the story "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward."

It was of course one of the made up books of occult lore by HPL but I do enjoy when hoaxers do their homework.

Gryzlgreedigutt 08-02-2004 06:45 AM

Who said I was christian. God, The Almighty, The Goddess, vishnu or WHATEVER is more powerful then that book. THAT BOOK DID NOT CREATE THE UNIVERSE, If you can't deal with that super. But don't come here declaring to me their God doesn't exist just becuz you don't believe it. Who are you? I don't believe in you either. after all nothing in my life has anything to do with yours so why should ? bite me. BTW I have nothing against you or anyone using this book or reading it with wide-eyes in the dark (it was actually entertaining) I guess the validity thing is an ongoing Necronomicon debate but personally I don't feel the need to traffic in anything negative. The company you keep says a lot about what kind of person you are. You wouldn't even KNOW about books if it wasn't for the light you read them by.

Grab 08-02-2004 07:27 AM

I will defend myself any time some religious type is pushing his personal beliefs down my throat. Certainly one can use LVX or YHVH or whatever in a magick ritual to great effect, without having to make the false assumption that it is TRUE.

The more important question here is HOW we can use this Grimoir in a safe way. If we visit one of those names of Nyarlathotep astrally, how should we protect ourselves first?

Gryzlgreedigutt 08-02-2004 08:46 AM

I wasn't even talking to you Grab. Who are you??

Nero 08-02-2004 08:51 AM

Will you two please cut it out!

I am not a mod so I am proabably over stepping my bounds but the point of the thread is to discuss the Grimoririum Imperium. Please stay on topic and keep your comments to each other in PM.

Frater Manjet 08-02-2004 02:57 PM

Well Nero may not be a mod but I am... This bickering will cease and the discussion will get back on topic.



Om A Piap (210/3)

Redeemer 08-02-2004 07:41 PM

I have posted this elsewhere but will do so here. The sigils in that book are fascinating. They have a sinister quality. I myself would not work with it because it seems a bit unpredictable; fake or not.

Noxlux 08-02-2004 08:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer
I myself would not work with it because it seems a bit unpredictable; fake or not.

Isn't that why we are all hanging in OF instead of starting working with it - waiting for the first field-reports to get to know what can be gained and what the risks are rather than witlessly putting our own souls at the mercy of cthulu :-)

Only thing bothering me is that perhaps those who died won't be able to post any fieldreports :-/

Seriously though: it can't be worse than simonomicon.


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