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Evoking to physical appearance study
Old 11-05-2004, 11:31 AM   #1
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Default Evoking to physical appearance study

Hi everyone. This is sort of a pet project of mine. I have never actually gotten around to setting it up and trying it, but I have researched it extensively.

What I know so far is:

Replacing the triangle with the pentacle is required for certain ops.

If enough sacrifice is provided, the intelligence can manifest a body out of thin air.

A bonfire can serve as a kind of physical manifestation, though it is not mobile. A candle flame can similarily be affected, though it will not show shapes to the extent of a bonfire.

If a body is provided, and the soul can be pushed out, the intelligence can snatch it for itself. The soul must have poor "karma", that is, it must have a great repoire with the will of the universe to win this battle.

Spirit lights may aid in concentration and visualization, enough to show a complete neophyte the phenomena, but it is not actual physical manifestation.

Share?

LH
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:55 AM   #2
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I don't have much to share, I'm afraid. I've only recently started researching evocation seriously. What do you think about using incense to evoke physical appearance? How about a dead body (not necessarily a sacrifise if that's what you're thinking). When is replacing a triangle with a pentacle required?
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:27 PM   #3
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I haven't done a goetic evocation yet. Was going to on Halloween but felt that I should postpone it because of the personal breach (aka the incident). Was thinking of doing it within the next couple of days.

I've evoked other entities and have noticed that candle flames are very responsive. I've seen these shoot up to at least 5" inches and take on a life of their own to the point where I've used it for divination. Left=yes, right=no. No draft could do what I've seen. When the spirits are there, they're THERE. SOmething's there. I was going to use incense for the evocation (I've seen THAT do a pretty number). I think a small flame(even 5" inches is small compared to a bonfire) can show ...character, personality in its movements. But the incense, although it seems so insubstantial and ephemeral, can cover more space . I don't know how to explain this exactly...it's more to work with than a little flame.
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:25 PM   #4
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"If a body is provided, and the soul can be pushed out, the intelligence can snatch it for itself. The soul must have poor "karma", that is, it must have a great repoire with the will of the universe to win this battle."

If you're going to go this route, I would recommend HIGHLY reading Crowley's "The Bartzabel Working" in which he evoked Bartzabel within the body of Neuberg (Fra. Lampada Tradam)
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You should try placing blood in the triangle; sacrifice an animal to the Infernal.

I would choose Blood over Fire for this Reason: Fire, when inhabited by foreign spirits, may (as S_Armada claimed) grow in measure-What happens when an entity successful turns that fire in to a torch and runs for the walls of your house? (that is, if your circle is weak)

With blood, if the entity escapes, the worst it can do is physically attack you (which I'm not counting off as a mere incident); What I am saying is, regaining control of your circle after a physical attack is A LOT easier to do than to run rampantly after a fire extinguisher-leaving you distracted of the entity's manifestation-which means it will, most likely, take advantage of such an opportunity.
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Old 11-05-2004, 09:15 PM   #5
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A physical host body can be prepared easily if the host is willing and able to "let go" (go in a trance). Even utterly inexperienced people can be hosts if they can just do this. Given such a host, any preparatory technique that imprints the unconscious idea of being vessel-like into the host will do - visualize body made of hollow, transparent glass, for example. This makes "poor karma" unneccessary. Certain drugs do help, but make the exorcising much more difficult.

Manifestation in smoke works much better when the room is utterly air-sealed, and the bigger the room is, the better.
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Old 11-05-2004, 09:34 PM   #6
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Obviously, this is a few steps above the Beginner. Caution to those who attempt it!
Hydralisk can do without caution, she's quite adept at this art.

Question to The Lady H.
Which Ritual Weapon(s) do you use, or will you use (in theory), if a Spirit escaped the Triangle, and infiltrated your circle?
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:34 PM   #7
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The use of blood, excrement (When applicable) and other bodily fluids (Semen) is of great use. It has one special advantage to the operator: It becomes usless when the body heat is gone (about 15 minutes). This presents the problem of making the Work time constrained but guarantees that the manifestation will not last long enough to do great damage if things go wrong. If someone can't hold their Will together for about 15 minutes, they shouldn't attempt this kind of Work.

I know that the time can be extended with the use of gentle heat (A candle under the bowl containing the blood). Still, I advise one to let entropy take it's natural course with the host (In this example blood) unless there's dire need for the Entity to have physical form for an extended amount of time.

Using living hosts to Invoke the Entity is effective but this presents dangers of it's own...

Edited to add that I have had stunning success with inscense as a means of Appearance. I recommend it as it's "safer" than many other methods.

...And one more thought: Keep some Asafoetida around! Tossed on the fire or even thrown AT a Spirit will disperse it's manifestation. It's some of the worst smelling stuff around but it's EFFECTIVE.
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Which Ritual Weapon(s) do you use, or will you use (in theory), if a Spirit escaped the Triangle, and infiltrated your circle?

If it's infiltrated my circle, then it can do whatever it wants, can't it....really no time for toys here, if it managed that, and wanted me dead, it would be instantaneous.

I've had spirits come out of the triangle, nothing bad ever happened there.

Master of the Abyss, I'm afraid I've just pointed out my hideous and repulsive character, of course, the subject could be willing.

Quote:
Hydralisk can do without caution, she's quite adept at this art.

Wrong,
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:35 PM   #9
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Actually, I've posted on here before about actually BEING the basis of manifestation for a Sumerian spirit called Lugulabdubur (from the Simon Nec, can also be found in the Enuma Elish). I sat in the triangle, and worked myself into a trance while chanting the spirit's name while my friend performed the conjurations.
Weird.
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Old 11-07-2004, 03:11 AM   #10
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Your experience seems to exist no more in OF due to the hackings.
Is it possible to repost it???
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:11 AM   #11
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Do it HitMan...Nike: Just Do It.
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Old 11-07-2004, 10:20 PM   #12
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How do I repost it? I don't have it saved or anything. In fact, I get a little mindboggled by the ease with which you guys dig up prehack posts. I have no idea how to do this.
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Old 11-07-2004, 11:30 PM   #13
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I saved and repost some prehack threads that was of my interest on my drive fro offline reading, and I reckon many other is doing the same thing. Hopefully someone (including me, haven't check yet) had saved that thread and repost it. Anyone remembers what is it titled under?
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Old 11-07-2004, 11:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk
Hi everyone. This is sort of a pet project of mine. I have never actually gotten around to setting it up and trying it, but I have researched it extensively.

What I know so far is:

Replacing the triangle with the pentacle is required for certain ops.

If enough sacrifice is provided, the intelligence can manifest a body out of thin air.

A bonfire can serve as a kind of physical manifestation, though it is not mobile. A candle flame can similarily be affected, though it will not show shapes to the extent of a bonfire.

If a body is provided, and the soul can be pushed out, the intelligence can snatch it for itself. The soul must have poor "karma", that is, it must have a great repoire with the will of the universe to win this battle.

Spirit lights may aid in concentration and visualization, enough to show a complete neophyte the phenomena, but it is not actual physical manifestation.

Share?


LH

Smoke works well with some enteties,try some moistened Oak wood chips over a charcoal briquette in an iron frying pan. do it with proper ventilation.lol
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Old 11-08-2004, 02:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Smoke works well with some enteties,try some moistened Oak wood chips over a charcoal briquette in an iron frying pan. do it with proper ventilation.lol


Great idea.


Hitman to dig up old posts do a search on google for the appropriate words...then hit "cached" when you find what you want. It'll bring up a page that google has had saved on its servers.
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Old 11-08-2004, 05:09 AM   #16
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I have not tried this: but I wonder...

Who has practised Evokation with a Fog Machine? Has it worked? How well?
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Old 11-08-2004, 05:21 AM   #17
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I once evoked Bael using a lava lamp in the triangle. Sounds idiotic, but I got very intense manifestation!
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Old 11-08-2004, 10:16 AM   #18
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this kinda sounds like self possession, like what the voudoun people do.
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:15 PM   #19
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Wow you evoked Bael? Mind giving us a recap in a new thread?
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Old 11-08-2004, 09:00 PM   #20
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I figure you just throw bunchs of energy into the triangle until it can take a denser shape on that border area between physical and astral. Thats what the oldtimers did one way or the other. Done properly it should be as good as physical, as it's bound to get anyways. This can be done with thoughtforms too.

You would have to be absolutely dull not to see it at some point as all humans have some amount of psychic potential. It can cause real physical damage too. If I had to test I would practice calling up a particular entity. Then bring in someone unsuggestable and uninitiated to see if they see it. Or try and take a picture, flash would probably work better than digital. Myself I am deadly scared of a SOLID entity. If you are physical, and you can walk through a psychic restraint albeit with discomfort. Then what keeps old Beelzebub from walking right up to you and swiping off your head?
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Old 11-08-2004, 09:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk
Wow you evoked Bael? Mind giving us a recap in a new thread?
I'm afraid it wouldn't really be worth a whole thread. I didn't evoke him in order to learn "invisibility" or anything, I was pretty much just double checking on something that Marchosias had told me and another about him (Bael.) He seemed pretty intelligent, but gave off kind of a sinister vibe. He really seemed to have fun with the lava lamp, building himself inside of it. He was also sort of flickering in and out superimposed over it at the same time. It was pretty weird. I'll have to see if I can dig up some of my old records. If I can, I'll post more on this if you'd like.
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Old 11-09-2004, 12:49 AM   #22
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Phil Legard used a lava lamp with Bune and gave a brief account at http://psorcereezee.future.easyspace.com/goetia/evo.html .

Now that I think about it, a TV set on white noise might work as an evocation medium as well, and have the option of attaching a VCR.
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:42 AM   #23
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I like that...I would like to get a lava lamp...I will have to save up my chuck e. cheese tickets. I want to evoke Bael but I am a bit scared of him, his sigil is major powerful shit. Like Paimon's, when I held the solid copy I got dizzy ^_^
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Old 11-12-2004, 02:56 AM   #24
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THe whole thing that lead up to my evoking Bael was pretty retarded. I had evoked Marchosias for answers on a few things, and he told me that Bael was looking to incarnate. This seemed pretty weird to me, and I pretty much figured that that wouldn't be a very good thing. So I evoked Bael to ask him about it. He came off as very sardonic, and his voice was weird, kind of low and gravelly, but with almost a shrill quality to it, though still low (I know I am explaining this horribly.) He continually kept avoiding my questions, but pretty much said that he wasn't going to incarnate, after much prodding, if memory serves me correctly. I don't really like him very much. He's a dick.
So pretty much, the whole ordeal was all for nothing. Ain't that a kick in the pants!?
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:44 AM   #25
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I agree with Lady H - the Bael sigil looks really powerful! I've looked at it many a time, thinking I must go there... then I read his description, and remember that he only teaches invisibility. Duh!... not exactly top of my priorities right now.

Is it a blind? Does he have a lot of hidden abilities?

Hitman, lol, he's a dick? I guess I should evoke him next time I want demon dick then.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:12 AM   #26
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Something I forgot regarding physical visibility: it is a lot easier when you do it in the dark. Sounds stupid, but I find that when spirits manifest visible to the physical eye, they will often do so as some sort of glow or shiny fog. You will probably want to have a candle on your altar in the circle, but you can step before the altar and cast a shadow on the triangle which both produces a dark for shiny things to manifest in and is a most appropriate symbol.

Demons tend to be less shiny than other types of entities, though. Perhaps a gray background will work best for them?

Bael is indeed quite a nasty. I found it sort of appropriate he is the first one in the Goetia, because he'll either scare off people or make them ready for (most of) what comes after.
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Old 11-12-2004, 09:50 AM   #27
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Seems like a few of them want to incarnate, but they are not able to yet...at least some of them have not.

Master of the Abyss: Sounds like a really great idea. In fact maybe I will try it tonight since I am maybe free for the evening.

Grab I think some of the demons can make you want to summon them more than others. For instance, I picked Sitri because I thought his abilities were funny...and he came across as less influential than Marbas or Orobas...and I chose both of those because I was drawn to them unexplainably. I see Orobas chosen so much. I can't think it's just a coincidence. Or maybe it's his abilities.

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Old 11-12-2004, 02:06 PM   #28
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Lady H, I think one reason why everyone wants to play with Orobas first is because Duquette keeps telling his story everywhere about his first more or less randomly chosen evocation.
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Old 11-12-2004, 02:18 PM   #29
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Yes, Duquette story is cool, although after hearing it 200 times, it stops being funny
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Old 11-14-2004, 08:48 AM   #30
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Yes that is a popular book among occultists, but I've seen complete newbies go over the list and choose Orobas for their usually mundane physical needs- having never read Duquette.
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Old 11-14-2004, 01:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
I figure you just throw bunchs of energy into the triangle until it can take a denser shape on that border area between physical and astral. Thats what the oldtimers did one way or the other. Done properly it should be as good as physical, as it's bound to get anyways. This can be done with thoughtforms too.

You would have to be absolutely dull not to see it at some point as all humans have some amount of psychic potential. It can cause real physical damage too. If I had to test I would practice calling up a particular entity. Then bring in someone unsuggestable and uninitiated to see if they see it. Or try and take a picture, flash would probably work better than digital. Myself I am deadly scared of a SOLID entity. If you are physical, and you can walk through a psychic restraint albeit with discomfort. Then what keeps old Beelzebub from walking right up to you and swiping off your head?

Oh yay but what happens when I wake up the next morning exhausted and drained of energy...with two children jumping on my bed waiting to be fed? Erm...no thanks. ALso not real big on the blood sacrifice stuff, dancing takes to much time, and not only that...have you ever tried throwing alot of energy at a demon? They will suck it up like there is no tomorrow. I'm not really mean enough to say "Hey stop sucking up that energy, do something useless with it and coalesce as a short furry man in the triangle! Smoke I like, Lava lamps I like because it's a medium the demon can manipulate without to much exertion on the part of the spirit.

Well if we got a coven together that would make it easy to raise energy...I'm afraid I'm rather limited unless i'm in the mood for alot of tedious work. And even then if they do take energy they usually take too much unless you have the foresight to tell them not to take too much. Or they are polite, which is spotty amongst Goetia or miscellaneous demons. The lower ranking ones seem better about it Eh?

Suppose I could deliberately place the energy myself instead of asking but I might screw myself up doing it...not real up on energy work.
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Old Yesterday, 11:19 PM   #32
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Oh and to answer the question "Why does a demon not have the ability to manifest in the physical?" the answer is, they do...they just don't want to waste the energy and are not required by universal law to give something for nothing. That is why energy must be provided for your desire to see this effect. Generally, as magicians go, no one is really needing this kind of validation so it's not done, however, a big bonfire evocation would be very fun with a group.
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Old Yesterday, 11:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk
however, a big bonfire evocation would be very fun with a group.

Great idea Lady. If we ever again do a OF meeting, maybe we should add that to our list of activities. I have never evoked to the physical plane before but it has occured to my I could try and use flames instead of smoke as a medium. During a cookout with some friends I suggested we try it. They being non-magicial everyone quickly became uncomfortable when I mentioned "demon" and "summon". Half thought I was kidding and some that had lived with me before knew I was not. Noone thought it was a good idea but me. Oh well, for the best since I was more than a little drunk at the time.
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM   #34
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All of my evocations are to the physical and I can view the entities, but with my astral senses (so no mirror). I usually see them as a shape in the triangle which is made out of light, like a hollogram of sorts. I can clearly make out colours, backgrounds, eyes, ears, tails etc. It tends to phase in and out, and usually takes around 5 minutes until I can view them properly, but I think this is more due to my eyes adjusting than anything else. I have never tried to take photos, but I don't think anything would come out. I might actually try this now that I have a digital! (ideas ideas - come here sexy water elementals )

That said, I have never tried an actual Physical body of flesh standing there looking at me - honestly, if that did happen, I would jump out my window and run for the hills, balls, but I wouldn't be waiting to find out if Astaroth's dragon is hungry after so many years in hell!

I like the lava lamp idea, perhaps a big glass jar full of smoke would work well also?

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Unread Today, 01:23 AM   #35
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BrotherM we can see the entities and for us it is no problem, but I have always thought it would be fun to make those with no astral senses see the entity. I know it can be done, but honestly I have no people around who I could safely shock in such a way, so it would be a fruitless endeavor. It would make for a good defensive illusion, would it not?

Nero I would love to go to a big OF meet and do this! But I am not so sure that most visitors would trust us for sure....

It is a big reality check when bouncing magical queries off of non magicals...the shock or dumbfoundedness on their faces is enough for everyone to realize, once again, that yes, we truly are the strange.
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Unread Today, 01:58 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk
Nero I would love to go to a big OF meet and do this! But I am not so sure that most visitors would trust us for sure....

Strangely I get tagged as a dangerous magician, reckless and fool hardy. Those who know me, know I am the safest magician in the world. I never take chances with my magick. When I do something, I check all my bases and know I am safe. Sorry, just strikes me as funny. Not sure why people think otherwise of me.
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Unread Today, 02:17 AM   #37
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So, have we ever tried to organise this before? What is stopping us doing an OF Summoner meeting with a few sleepers and a camera to see what happens?

(It has occured to me that physical distance and visas etc might be a valid reason, but I'm sure there will be enough of a sub-set of us in a region to make a workable group.)

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