Hello all

I am not sure about where I should post this. Sorry if this is the wrong place.

Is it possible to capture or bind a demon (or any entity) permanently.
Something similar to the brass vessel mentioned in "the Goetia".

Let's assume I have trapped a demon somehow.
Does this mean that another person trying to evoke the same demon will be unsuccessful because the demon is under my control.

I highly doubt you can bind a demon into anything. If this were the case we'd all have them as pets, like sea monkeys. How would you bind a demon anyway? You see it through a mirror, that doesn't mean it's still not in "hell". Why would you want to do this, anyway?

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

Well...
Near the end of the "Goetia" , there are notes about a brass vessel used to capture spirits and seals used to bind them




Just a theoritical possibility...

It is said that by binding these spirits Solomon became invincible.
Food for thought...

quoting :sesshoumaru
"It is said that by binding these spirits Solomon became invincible.
Food for thought..."



Is he still ruling then?
food for thought too...

This post has been edited by mystick: Feb 26 2006, 07:13 AM

Yoda says: \"More study, less daydream\"

Solomon is made invincible by the \"Secret Seal of Solomon\" which is also used to seal the brass vessel. He did not gain invinciblity from sealing them in the vessel. This was a punishment for the pride of the demons.





The seal was a representation of the gift god gives Solomon, later he breaks this covenant and the gift is revoked. The symbol of his authority (i.e. his seal) was made invalid.

Greetings!
I have effectively used a talismanic magical 'machine' to capture lesser spirits. This device is very similar to a Babylonian Devil-trap, ie a vorticed inscribed piece of terra cotta clay that operates similarily to the ghost traps in the movie 'Ghostbusters'. Demon trapping is possible, in theory (and in lore) but I've never been able to incarcerate a full blown demon... just smaller entities like elementals and aerial spirits. I find it morally suspect to enslave anything.
Some of the Goetics do not respond to evo/invo-cation. I surmise that they are no longer present or have been destroyed. Your guess is as good as mine.
Remember that when binding spirits you become responsible for them. When I captured elementals it was very distressing to them and it could have destroyed them by removing them from their environment. Needless to say they were released and I vowed to never do this again unless it became absolutely necessary. We must strive to better ourselves not subjacate others for whatever reason. (Sorry for the preachy lecture) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/5.gif)

i have to agree with bym.
Capturing demons serves no purpose. And magick is not some fantasy/entertaining hobby. It is serious study and devotion.

If you will to work with these demons you will have to respect them first. They are not your tools. They can be friends, and help you as friends do. Because they want to, because you ask them. But less because they have.

The battle of wills that will occur when you try to trap such a demon is stressing on you as well. Leaving you and the demon both weakened. This server nobody. Since a weak demon cannot serve you well, and when you are weak it is not so fun either. If you should lose the battle of wills, you may find yourself in a whole lot of trouble.

Plus if they ever get out of said prison I expect that they would be pretty ticked off. So you would then have a ticked off demon that knew who you were. I don't think that is a situation that I would like.

Start trapping them with total success and you'll probably have hell to pay by some very pissed off demons when you kick this mortal coil!
There's plenty of other ways to reach your goal.

This post has been edited by Sojrn: May 27 2006, 12:46 AM

All moral codes asside for a moment.

As Bym mentioned, it is quite possible to trap lesser spirits. For more powerful entities such as those found in the Goetia, you would need to evoke that entity in FULL. In any given evokation, you make a connection and call to a spirit. Some of that spirit's conciouness then manifests into the mirror, astral, pendulum, etc. Trapping THAT would only be like trapping some of the spirits energy....nothing too spectatular. Thus, to trap the entity in full, you would need to evoke that entitie's FULL conciousness into physical manifestation. (By physical manifestation, I mean that the entitie's full conciousness would have to be in the room with you, not just mirrored in the astral) Doing that would require a very potent Will to force the entity to manifest itself in full....would be pretty dangerous too. After that, you would have to find a proper vessel to actually trap it in. That vessel would have to be safe guarded by a LOT of energy barriers etc. Further, that energy would have to be EXTREMLEY dense and refined...as well as cycled on a regular basis. If not, the said entity would be able, to whatever extent, manifest it's Will upon the universe. If it's trapped in a vessel, you can bet your arse that it's Will would be focused on one thing.....hurting the magickian that put him/her (or more appropiatly it) there. Once it is trapped, there isnt much you would be able to do with it. Commanding it or communicating with it would be out of the question as both would require either YOU the magickian sending some of your own conciousness into the vessel, or letting some of the said spirit's conciousness out. Either would be dangerous. Your Will would also have to be conciouslly cutting the conenctions that other Magickians would make with the said entity while trying to evoke/invoke it.

While it is quite possible, the benifits in NO way outweight the costs (that the said magickian would at some point....probably sooner than later.... pay) for doing so. Not only that, but the whole procedure would be very very time consuming and dangerous. If one were to succesfully get a 100% full manifestation of the spirit, it would be a battle zone from there on.

For all of the moral predicaments associated with this, please read the above posts.

Ashnook