Good day,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but since it is under "religion" I thought it'd be alright. I became quite stunned when a certain person told me that the Freemasons were a Satanic sect. Can we disprove or approve of that? Please send your helpful insights as they are always greatly appreciated.

Yours Truly,

Mr. Curi

Hello, Curi

There are many people who make misguided statements against institutions which they do not fully understand. Freemasonry is not satanic, it is a multi-faith fraternity who's entrants are required to hold a belief in an all powerful, creative entity. Generally, Masons work towards the betterment of themselves and the community. this link provides some more detail.

Thank you hljdreamer. Its nice to see someone saying something nice about us for a change.

I don't know a whole lot about Free Masonry, other than some temples have ties to the Golden Dawn, but I'd be very surprised if they had anything to do with satan, set, or what have you. It doesn't seem their style. Sadly, the giant Masonic Temple in my town was recently vacated. I'd live in it, if I could afford the rent. It's such a nice building. heh

Yeah.. we are having to sell off alot of the old buildings because membership has been dropping over the past decade. The baby boomers didn't join up in many organizations. Regardless of what they did in the sixties they are still the "me generation" and don't care alot about the rest of us. There are individual baby boomers that are not like that, so save your flames for someone that will care, but as a whole most baby boomers were and are self centered. The result is that most freemasons are either older than 70 or younger than 50. This has killed many lodges and strained many others. However due to recent books and movies and an interest by generation x and the following generations in being a part of such organizations the masons are on an upswing. We just hope that we can learn everything the older generation has to teach before they leave this plane of existence.

The selling off of the buildings is a sore spot for me. We have bretheren that have spent their entire lives practicing a masonic way of life in these buildings. It is breaking their hearts to sell the buildings and the history that goes along with them. It is breaking mine to see them in pain because they are my friends and brothers.

Arcangle90,

I'm with you 100% on this. I grew up around Masons as my granddad was an honorary 33rd Scottish Rite as well as an active member of the Amara Temple. So I naturally joined the local DeMolay chapter when I was old enough.

I like and respected all the Chapter Dads (Masons) who were older at the time. And it still saddens me that most of them passed on before I was Raised.

There's a lot of "new blood" in the lodge now, but those men where what really made me desirous to become a Mason.

I only hope someday I can return everything they've given me... But I guess that's exactly why we're Masons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

-Anderlin

Of course it's Satanic. It encourages us to buy books delving into the question at hand, thereby laying up treasures on this Earth, thereby stunting spiritual growth.

This sounds a little provocative and stating your reasons for this belief might help here.

My own personal belief is that we continue to grow spiritually whatever path we are on, it is inevitable because it is intimately bound up in our life experiences.

Apologies, I am unable to offer anything on the Freemasons, but the thread is interesting and I had no idea that there was a gap because of the 60s.

Satanism is a Christian fear, "laying up treasures" is a Christian proverb, therefore laying up treasures breaks a proverb that is found in God's law, Satan wishes us to break God's words as it creates space between us and Him, therefore anything that causes us to lay up treasures is Satanic.
::tongue firmly in cheek::

This post has been edited by Nill: Sep 16 2006, 11:25 AM

Don't take the Bible and "God's words" so literally , it's a work of philosophy with amny points of view and on many occasions the church has used interpretation as a tool.Up until a few centuries ago anyone who said that the Earth was not the centre of the universe was burned alive , not to mention all the "witches" who were burned and tortured.

The Masons are not evil , but when you have their authority (I mean the most important members) I think people fear your power. And you could look at it from another perspective , before christianity was adopted as a general religion christians were wieved as we see satanists today.

Personally I would join the masons if I could.Anyway the ideea is to keep an open mind and to accept that the world is not black or white but many , many shades of grey.

There is no black like the black and it is your black.
There is no white like the white and it is your white.
Maybe the sarcasm meter here is broken, cause it seems I'm getting no register here.

If that paradigm works for you, then mahagique it up. I try to stay flexible with the most inflexible, and stating flexibility is the most inflexible at all. Follow?
Hail Eris or don't
Nill

To be honest I didn't understand that quote very well.
I'll be honest your answer reaises many questions for me , I'm sorry but i can't fully grasp your response.Obviously I lack some knowledge however I did understand you keep an open mind which is great.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif)

When I say rain, you think of rain you have experienced, or 'the rain', and that rain is your view of the rain.
This means that because concepts conjure similar ideas, it does not mean that we are talking about the same thing.
What if I were to ask you to picuture 'the mom'?

Additionally, maintaining flexibility in thought or belief means that you are inflexible to the idea of holding an inflexible belief structure....like Christianity. Flexibility is the least flexible.

When you ponder something, you realize that it is because of its qualities, additionally you know something by what it is not. A square is an equilatteral rectangle. Equilatteral means that no sides are bigger or smaller than others. Rectangle is the joining of four lines with 90* angles. You know a square because you know that it is not a trapezoid as its sides are equal, and you know a square because it is not a circle. Everything is it's own paradox at some level, things are because they are not.

BTW...what path intrests you?
Pandude

Greetings Nill,

Masons are not satanists. You see alot more from the inside looking out than you do from the outside looking in.

You have no idea what you are talking about. If you can please give us some proof of your conclusions. Present to us some evidence that Masons are satanists.


Osterperosa.

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Feb 10 2007, 12:34 AM

I guess an ideea or ideology becomes defined by its paradox or complete oppositre at some point.
Without blakc there is no white , without white there is no black.
Good is defined as the opposite of evil and evil as the opposite of good.
I think that an inflexible mind either lives "inside the box" or just can't cope with the world as we know it today.

As for masons , they are not satanists(depends what kind of satanists).They are in my opinion the guardian angel of this world.Most people are like sheep unfortunately , where you point they go.The masons are the people who hold the shepherds in bounds.

Alin, you understand one of the basic truths of the universe quickly! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap.gif)


Perhaps I can answer all such questions here if I state my non-sarcastic opinion:

I believe that the only hoopla over the Masons are a bunch of Christians that have lost their stranglehold of free doctrines here in the Western societies.
I believe that the distinction between satanistic and true servants of Christ matters only to those raising the objections.
An animal flails when the mortal wound is cast.
My apologies to any offended.
Nill

Well thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)

Anyway I think you are right in some measure.
If I am not mistaken you consider the people opposing the masons are Christians who may have lost some of their freedom in western society.Strange I consider the Christians in Eastern society to be far more conservative and strict.
Perhaps the ideea of the ones raising objections is strong.What do we define as satanists - if we reffer to the ones protesting twoards the hypocracy and lies of the church then I agree however if you reffer to the fools that break any law and resort to pointless violence just to feel strong then i do not agree.

Be a bit more specific. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_bookread.gif)

As my understanding the Masons is suppose to be like and occult Fraternity to help improve the community without revealing their identity. But from where I live they yell to the four winds they are Masons and you see they have stickers on their cars, big chain with Masons symbols, and big rings to tell everyone they are Masons. Now I have other friends that they tell me those Masons are not real Masons, that the real Mason don't reveal to the public what they are, they just help the community with out rewards or acknowledge of what they are.

Actually from what I hear both are true.Some are low-ranking members who don't do much , but I guess they do like the ideea of being part of a very old and influental fraternity.
The smart ones stay in the shadow and pull the strings-but I mean this in a good way.
t is my belief that they might have helped humanity during its greatest perils- WW2 , the cold war and so on.(I have no proof , I just think so)

There are many unsung heros in all walks of life who, because they prefer to remain anon. or lie low, are almost a secret society in themselves. But normally they are left alone. A party of one is of no interest.

The inflexible mind cannot leave alone what does not concern him and I personally think that where there is a group of people who share a secret, it is human nature to condemn and disparage what it does not either understand or from which it is excluded.

Once the inflexible mind has gained access into whatever it is that was once secret, order collapses and chaos becomes apparent. I am not surprised that the Masons are so selective.
It is a pity that governments and political parties are not more prudent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

However, on a brighter note, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I also think with the changing of the "times" from Pisces to Aquarius, that the mindset of men is becoming less stuffed with dogma and traditional teaching and that more and more people are beginning to openly question what has for millenium been taken as "gospel".

I would love to say a lot more... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

Maybe the masons are loosing their authority especially now due to the media.Perhaps it is hard to help someone while trying to stay in the shadow and not doing damage elsewhere.

It's sad there are so many who stay closed to the truth but you can't blame them - to them life is as simple as a robot's.

But the unknown creates paranoia.If you remember the panic created by the Nevada "Alien" incident.
The same is true for any secret/covert organization.There were some documentaries about signs on one-dollar bills and so on.
But how can one explain to another who refuses to listen ?! - it's pointless !

I read a book once saying that 99% of people refuse to correct themselves or embrace anything to new/strange to them.
Does that make us part of the other 1% - then we truly are isolated.

The Freemasons are not Satanic at all. They were the finding fathers of the United States; and chose to use the occult for the goodness and freedom of the country. They didn't want the issues of Europe (which came from Christianity) to have effect on the United States. They had no real religion, they were just practitioners of the occult for a cause, and their cause was to cease the movement of Christianity in the US and thus have an occult-safe country. That was one of their many reasons.

They're reasons are simple these:

1. To establish a free country where citizens could escape the severe oppression of Christianity and learn the ancient secrets of the past for themselves without any fear of losing their lives.

2. The United States was to be “The New Atlantis” and was meant to set a precedent for other nations of the world to follow in regards to spiritual knowledge.

3. To establish a free nation where each individual could become the best he/she could be.

There is more to this but you'd be better off googling.


DeathStalker

This post has been edited by DeathStalker: Oct 23 2006, 11:19 PM

Intresting.
But not that i would like to criticise , weren't the masons ok with all religions.
And further more why is the main value in the US currency and not freedom of speech.(that's what it seems like from the outside)
As for christianity - even if the faith is ok the way people become blind and worship curches and priests over God is sickening.

Alin I gave you quite a long answer on your pm, be sure to check. Just incase.

Well you're part right. Several of the founding fathers where masons. George Washington, Benjimin Franklin, etc. They were Christian though. One of the requirements for becoming a mason is a belief in God. One of the reasons for this is that the obligation has to be binding. The whole freedom of religion part of the constitution as well as a few other things were the result of the masons influence I guess you could say.

I bought one of the cicero's books from a mason - he was a really genuinely nice guy. Another time i met a mason and he was rude and pushy until i asked him how you became a mason and then he became really arrogant and told me to fill in an application form not that it would help. One time i met a christian and he bought me lunch, another time i got into a philisophical discussion with a christian on my front door step, and he was so offended by some of my most christian ideas that he tried to punch me. Im a christian. Some kids i remember at school were really mean, many were amazingly nice, many i didnt really talk to that much. They were all christians and atheists and masons and jews and taoists and muslims and buddhists and hindus and the like. The ladies in the canteen didnt look they could be trusted so i didnt eat the food. I saved my lunch money for toys that would break in the first week. Some of them were made by companies owned by masons!

This post has been edited by extinctionspasm: Oct 26 2006, 05:53 AM

One thing I forgot to say was that this belief in God did not necesarlily mean the Christian God. A muslim, jew, christian, hindu, and in some states I think thelema and wiccan can be masons.

Why would someone thinks the free masons are satanic?
I have never heard of evidence of this.

This only thing I can think of is:
1) A pentacle is common with the free masons. However the pentacle in their tradition derives from the pentagram which used to represent or be the seal of Jerusalem, and very common with the Hebrews (one version of the star of Solomon is a pentagram and it appears as such in the flags of Morocco and Ethiopia). Even before that it was a sumerian sign and its only lately in the last 1000 years were it has been associated as demonic sign.

2) Maybe they are referring to the association of the Knights Templar and the Free masons? some believe that the survivors of the Templar purges in France ended up in Scottland and their traditions were picked up by the freemasons. They were called heretics for worshipping a 'head' (probably the head of christ in the Linz of Turin, the only thing visible when folded up). Possibly they believed that Christ did not die in the cross but survived.. who know, they are many books about them.

In any event, my understanding is that to be a free mason you have to believe in and submit to a higher power than yourself, similar to the AA 12 steps. Therefore satanist (at least those from LaVey's church of Satan) would NOT be accepted into freemasonry, as they believe in the innate godness of each person and the lack of a superior being (they would say I am my own god and I submit to no one).

So I dont think free masonry has anything satanic about it. If anything, where their views diverged from the accepted church ortodoxy they were probably more on the right, as the Templar knights organization was founded in Jerusalem and had direct access to any existant record, scriptures, treasures or traditions in that part of the world.

Traveller.

Satanists are a very strange subject.
Some are just teens who listen to rock music , some use it as an excuse for violence but there are too few organized satanists to make a serious comment.

That's correct, Satanism is a strange subject and there are really few who understand the true concept of "True Satanism". Most people are only rebels who think its cool to be a Satanist, and others (primarly Laveyists) are not e'en Satanists but Atheists.