Hello:
I was reading the introductions, and 'mediocracy' indicated a high regard for Dee, so this question is for him and all...

What I have read of Dee (and about him, like Tyson, Petersen and other books) indicate considerable doubts and disccussion on how to resolve some conjectures (should the letters be reversed?, what are the numerical values of letters?, how to use the Logaeth tables, how to use the 30 calls, etc.) His manuscripts indicate preparations for a much higher 'working' or task that Dee was preparing to do (opening some astral gate?) which he never got to complete....

But before we even get there.. has someone been able to replicate Dee's initial successes as scrying (actually talking to a spririt either directly or through a medium). And if so, can't these conjectures or discrepancies be resolved simply by asking them?

I was really interested in Dee, bought several books, down loaded Hay's pdfs, downloaded the original manuscript pages jpegs, as well as Causobon's books etc. and was eventually discouraged. Cant we talk to Uriel directly?

Has it ever been done since? I would be extremely interested in any actual conversation with an astral entity any one may have had..

Thanks,

Traveller.

Yes the Enochian entities can be talked with directly, however we have to keep in mind that Dee and Kelly spent anywhere from 4-12 hours per day working with the EEs! That is 4-12 hours a day of skrying, often everyday for a couple of weeks on end, then a couple of days off and at it again. I don't know about you, but damn an hour or 2 is about it for me per day LOL. Also, when one does practice skrying this much, they get really damn good at it. Modern magicians often wonder why their visions (without drugs) aren't as vivid as Kelly's. Well this is one reason why.

I haven't seen anywhere in the original diaries about the letters being reversed, the calls were given backwards, but only so they wouldn't be activated sort of thing. The Loageth tables, well I beleive how to use those was lost in the fire, or used to wrap fish or pies unfortunaty Talking with the EEs does help to solve this one though. How to use the calls? Well being as they were given more around the time period of the 49x49 tables, I would say they are used to help with those as uposed to dividing up the great table as the GD does. There is nothing in the Dee/Kelly diaries that suggest the calls are to be used with the great table, or any divisions such as they use. I would definatly say that the keys do have a LOT of magic to them. As far as where they were going with Enochian? Both Dee and the EEs did seem to have political agendas, as well as wanting to help mankind. So either, or both of those possibly.

In the Enochian communities, no one can seem to agree on things like how the keys are used. If one gets ahold of the EEs with only a certain idea in mind, then the EEs are just not going to be able to introduce new concepts. One example of this is the EEs talking to Dee and Kelly from a Christian standpoint. The EEs themselves are not Christian, however Dee would have never spoken with them if they talked about anything besides Christianity. So perhaps get a magician and a skryer who have had no access to magical works whatsoever, or religious biases, and have them talk with the EEs. Then there is the matter of every group (take the OTO for example) keeping their years of work secret and to their own orders as uposed to sharing it with all others.

I have had some communications and visions as good as Dee and Kelly's (Dee was quite good at times), as well as some of my skryers. I had this one skryer who was fortunatly not influenced by modern magick, who was able to see and hear the entities as if a movie were playing, and often 3d. He was quite amazed when I didn't see things (as I was busy holding the circle and such). The other catch is that with each and every skryer, some of their personal biases and concepts do creep into the skrying. Well with some that isn' a problem, but that takesa lot of training and a very good altered state, as well as not having any agenda towards the outcome. Even with science it has been shown that experiments will often come out int he way that the experimenters assumed they would. With the scientific method this shouldn't be possible. So even more difficult with something as ambiguous as skrying.

Well my 25 cents anyways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Athena

I'm not sure if this is relevant to this thread but I was recently talking to (I think) my HGA in a dream and he said that enochian is only a smaller part of a larger system of magick. That this is a very ancient system and that there is much more to it than we currently know, or could ever possibly imagine. I asked for more info on it but I was told I was not ready for it.

I'm also curious to know if anyone has ever asked their HGA about the secrets of enochian?

greetings to you altpath....Im new too this board but not too enochia.Your commet youve made is very interesting to me."part of a grander system"indeed!My intuition has told me for some time now that there is more too this magik system than what has been givin so far.Im suprised not more of it has been given to humans (but not completly).I wonder if anybody has tried to communicate with DeeKellys original angelic sources for a better/greater understanding of the system.It also seems to me that enough has been given in that through experimentation more of the understanding could come about.Anyways it was certainly a gift for you to receive this guidance.I recommend that you continue seeking and learning about the system......The doorway has been opened a little bit more for you......congrats!

My primary focus with enochia is to look for what is hidden within what has been already given through KellyDee.Go beyond what was stated.....anyhow I apologise if my responses are slow.My computer access is limited.... hexus

Thank you hexus,

I'm still into enochian, but I've been focusing on solomonic angelic magic recently. But you're right, I will be looking more into this as I make more progress with the more familiar forms of angel magic. I'm still too engrossed in kabbalah to make a switch to enochian, but I am planning on drawing and coloring my watchtower tablets. To be honest, I'm not too familiar with the ways dee and kelly did things, so maybe I'll study that further, but for now I'll stick to what I know. I know more about the golden dawn/crowley method. Do you do it dee style?

Hey there altpath,sorry not to be able to have responded earlier.I personally tend to borrow heavily from enochia when it comes to magic working.I borrow from judaic understandings also when it comes to establishing a circle.I attempted scrying once but it turned out to be non condusive(probaly because of my short attention span).I have not come across other people that are into enochia(in person)so I tend to strike out on my own path when it comes to this magique.The most I have been able to do with enochia in the sense of conversing with the enochia spirit beings is bringing in a non-visible presence into a circle,state my case,and close the circle.At this point in my life im not too interested in gaining knowlege from the spirits.More interested in Yang type work than yin I suppose with enochia.There has been some fabulous new age teachings that have nurtured my need for the Yin.

Ive observed the golden dawn folks have tried to correspond enochia with the kabbalah tree of life so I recommend looking into that if your wanting to expand and yet stick with what feels right.Ive looked at solomonic intelligentsia before but find myself more interested in enochia intelligentsia.Whatever floats your boat I suppose.As for dee and kelly and how they did things they seem to have mainly been the channels for the establishment of the "angelic" information in the physical world.Whether they actually did anything with it is anybodies guess.I'd guess they did do stuff with it but its just speculation on my part.

Anyhow I was curious if anybody has ever tried to evoke/invoke any enochia spirits by using a heptagram instead of the G.D penta/hexa format.It seems to me that the number seven pervades the enochia information....anyhow I will try to respond tommorrow to any resonses.......