I've been wondering what to explain to myself really. When we are born we know nothing about using the mind, as we grow older we visualize certain things. It's all there when we need it, we just have to want to do so. Although thats the basic stuff really. For example if anyone else see's this stuff or not I have no idea, asked a friend and mother and they dont seem to do so, but it's what I would call the spiritual, scientists probably think of it as dark matter, it's the gray bitty stuff that reminds me of dust. I know it's different for everyone but those who are born spiritually aware would have it there. Saying that though, if anyone has been to the etheric then they would also see this other stuff almost twinkling in the sunlight, colord blue white and yellow. It's down to perception of reality, most people only have the basics, what you see when you remember, has anyone else noticed a flat color border around their memory window?

What do you see though and how would you go about visualising something in that space / with it?

This post has been edited by Coffee: Oct 30 2006, 05:13 PM

No offense man, but its obvious english isn't your first language. If it is then you must type really fast and not look at what you typed before posting. I'm having some real difficulty following your logic.

So are you saying we learn to visualize things as we grow up? And that as we learn to visualize we learn to get what we want through visualization?

Stuff, spiritual? So here you are saying you see something, while visualizing and since you don't know what it is you call it "spiritual"?

Memory window? What is a memory window? If I know what you mean by that then I might be able to tell if I've seen any color around it.

Assuming the question is what does one see while practicing a visualization ritual, I'd have to say it depends on my state of my. In dreams I see things as though I were under water. The more lucid I am the more solid the reality of my dreams is. What I visualize depends entirely on my depth of awareness and level of trance.

If you bother to read it again then it is in plain english and yes it does make sense. The only problem I'm understanding is typo's.
What I'm saying is first of all is, have you heard the term...

Perception of ones own reality

That should be a yes really seeing as just about everyone I have come across has done so. From this meaning should come a point of view on life that describes the fact that one person can see blue, whilst the other see's red. The sky is pink and blue to one person but blue and indigo to another. I see the etheric as fairy dust, someone else doesn't see it at all.

Second of all, that part about growing up using the mind and never really thinking about anything more to do with it. I guess as a baby we don't know what to do to stimulate the mind as we don't have any knowledge on the subject. So it just does as we want when we need to do so...

The basics

We remember and think in a standard place in or around the head, which is what everyone can do. Saying that though, most people can visualise other imagery and place it anywhere around them they want to, so if you wanted to visualize a new garden where the old one is then you could but this would be something more difficult. However things like visualizing astrally or spiritually are more difficult especially spiritually.

Other

Blue gass. The sky is blue the sea is blue/green and somewhere in between is this blue gass. Standard the air is nothing, meaning there is nothing that you can see in the space where the air is. Trips to other planes give us what we see thats extra, unless it's picked up on through some other means. Look around at the reflection (as there is one on verythig) and notice how there is a blue tint, here there and everywhere giving you now blue gass in the air. Hopefully anyway.

Not just perception of one's own reality

Other things that are interesting to notice are things like, when you go to draw a picture and you can faintly see what it is you want to draw, you can then play with this picture if you have the right control over it. Or how there is a border around every momory window that appears.

Anything will do that you can notice.

Thanks.

I’m with Acid09 on this one. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. The fact that you yourself know what you yourself are talking about is no surprise. What is a surprise is that you go immediately on the defensive and attack Acid09 instead of actually trying to engage.

That being said:

You say: We remember and think in a standard place in or around the head, which is what everyone can do. Saying that though, most people can visualise other imagery and place it anywhere around them they want to, so if you wanted to visualize a new garden where the old one is then you could but this would be something more difficult. However things like visualizing astrally or spiritually are more difficult especially spiritually.

While the brain is the processing house of all this information, I do not believe that either thinking or memory is especially localised in the head. I do believe the concept of Ego is constructed in our head and therefore in our ego-centric culture we confuse the head as being the centre of all consciousness. (Talking from the heart is no poetic figure of speech.)

However in your post you *seem* to be talking about visualisation which is indeed centred in the head. I don’t really understand though if you are asking a question or stating your perception.

At first I thought you were talking about the process of taking an internal visualisation and projecting it outwards, as in the building of angel forms or similar processes used in some forms of Ritual, but now I’m not sure.

If you are asking a question, could you possibly rephrase it into one sentence, for those of us who can only be *bothered* to read your post 5 times. If you are making a point then I am sorry but I just don’t get it.

Thanks for the posts from the both of you. I didn't actually mean to get defensive about this, the word obviously did this but then... If you could please do so again would be more what im meaning about being bothered sorry. From what you've said about this though may not be what I was meaning. All im trying to do is get different points of view on what we see or can imagine, as we all see differently from what we've though or been through.
When we think our mind does so about anything we want in any way we want, so all you would have to do is start to do so and it will happen. Although saying that though i've noticed for example something like thinking spiritually is more of a challenge, as we have to be able to think within a certain space if you like, although im not too sure how to describe this to you.

Also from what i've said, most people seems to believe that the air shows as nothing, where as I see many differences from my experience. So im asking... What do you see? About anything at all to do with the mind.

Thanks.

I am not completely exact with the reference you mean, but when I visualize, it is normally the blank, black screen, and at times the colors come in and out, but that is only because of me falling into a deeper state of meditation. I forget the term for it, it might be something like hypogenic state? Don't quote me on that though, I need to refresh my memory. If you could give me a better example/idea on what exactly you mean, I can share a better descriptive experience with ya.

Thanks for the reply, im wanting to know anything at all to do with visualization I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) , very broad topic though.
Interesting to know that you get colors. What colors to you get? I take it it's like a filter on the screen and not your whole vision.
I've experienced a trance like state when at night looking at a light, my whole vision kinda warps, like looking through moving water.

This post has been edited by Coffee: Nov 1 2006, 01:35 PM

Well, first I should ask then, while in the trance state, were your eyes opened or closed? The state that I referred to in the last post occurs while in a closed-eyed meditation, which is a normal occurance for everyone. Yet at times I've come to see certain light movements and such with my eyes opened. I suppose the only way to explain it is when you have one of those times where you're with friends and you see something out of the corner of your eye, and you're like "what was that?" and nobody else sees it? Yet when I meditate, I tend to see multiple different colors, but green/ red and blue are the most common for me, I'm not sure if it would be the same for everyone else. They tend to be long lines that sway, bend, and curve randomly. GIve your experiences also if you want, it might help me understand better.

Thanks for your patience, now I think I understand better, although you seem to skip between the concept of visualisation and thinking as if they were synonyms. (which they may well be.)

As the universe is a subjective experience, in no small amount due to conditioning, you are looking to compare realities, no? You specifically mention looking at ‘air’.

I think as animals we need very firm concepts of solid matter and space as an imperitive to survival and this is hard-wired into our lower circuits (and every time I don’t walk into a wall I am grateful for this). However science clearly believes (at the moment) that this sense of solidity is ultimately illusory, as *all* is some form of movement/vibration. Physics also states that one way to transform solids into gases is by speeding up the movement/vibration of its particles (often using heat as a catalyst).

When we begin any type of spiritual or magical work we speed up our own vibratory rate as we become accustomed to this higher rate of vibration it is natural that what was once the material world takes on a certain fluidity.

Personally when I am ungrounded I see things a lot brighter. If I am really buzzing I tend to see beings and objects as contained-light. If I stop to look at air then it seems to take on a thicker almost watery appearance.

I like how you brought up that scientific discovery, its under quantom mechanics correct? or around there. It states the same thing as, it is possible to put a solid object through another solid object, because of the atoms constantly moving, yet the odds of this occurence happening are extremely rare. I've wondered to myself, when astral projection occurs, you speed up vibrations, which helps pull yourself from your "first body", science always tends to have huge connections with magickal practice.

Sometimes while dreaming I'll do some pathworking. Sometimes with specific intentions but most of the time just to explore my own mind's dreamscapes. Each time I do this there is a theme. Sometimes I travel down hallways, tunnels or caves in large complex buildings (as though I were following the synapes in my brain), city streets, highways and other roads and sometimes I'll just be somewhere in nature. Since I live near the rockies the nature scenes are usually either mountainous woodlands or endless deserts and plains and there is no specific path. Instead I make one and sometimes I find another. Maybe I'll find a cave or pathway or even a house or some other kind of structure. The most amazing themse I sometimes find are in outer space. Here I do not walk or "glide" down any direction instead I visit strange worlds, even the surface of the sun. Each experience, regardless of theme, is different. I have had some that were very much alike but once I compared my notes they were still different.

If I am not actually asleep I am just meditating I see the blackness behind my eyes. Like a curtian in a theater and gradually I see more colors at random and eventually these morph into shapes and these become recognizable as faces, animals, places ect and then from here until I retire from the excersice the meditation follows a theme. Still though sometimes I have specific intentions and sometimes not.

Are you self-consciously creating these vivid images that you travel around? Or do you put yourself into the state where you travel there in freewill?