Hello All,
I've recently read the newest book book by Simon. I suppose its a good source of information when it talks about Gate walking; even providing Daoist views of that. Its gives a quick crash course in Ancient civilizations and a unique view of the Big Dipper in reference to the Necronomicom. It gives dates and times perfect for Gate Walking so those interested in such will have a good resource.
Now for all the praise I just gave the book here comes the pain. I didn't like it. The reason I didn't like it is because It didn't give me what I was hoping for. I'm a ceremonial magician and I do rever and respect the Elder Gods, But I'm not a priest by any means. So when I picked up this volume, I had hoped that this text would be somewhat like a grimoire and its not. So thats what I think of the Book. What do you think?

Please refrain from using one liners if possible. I'm glad you have a lot to contribute to the thread but its best to just not post anything at all if you don't have time to post more than a sentance.

In the future such posts will be deleted.

Ever the "Mod Nazi"
Acid09

This post has been edited by Acid09: Dec 5 2006, 04:02 PM

I have to say I was also a little disappointed with the book especially the theoretical side of it. There´s a lot of creeping assertion in it, and a lot of fairly irrelevant data. Simon does also try and hint at some Von Daniken like theory that the Eldar Gods came from outer space, which just doesn´t seem to make sense to me.

It does get better. There is a lot of useful stuff in the practical section, but to be honest, most of what Simon gives there could probably be found here. The most useful thing is there astrological tables for the next 14 or so years.

I could well be missing the point entirely, and I´m happy to admit being wrong, but I would honestly recommend reading the class lessons here by smasher666 or Ashnook instead.


Jon

I agree. I also feel that while Simon did a great job bring the material to light with the Necronomicom, and again simplfying it with the Necronomicom Spellbook. His 2 latest works being Dead names and The Gates of the Necronomicom seem more not to inform but to defend his position on the legitimacy of the Necronomicom system which he in truth doesn't need to defend. It is a work that truly stands on its own. Now maybe if his next work is a grimoire then he might see more success. Keep in mind that is just my opinion. There will ALWAYS be nay sayers and he needs to realize that. Whether it be secret societies or whatever the naysayers have been in existance for eons.
Sincerely,
gmcbroom

PS- I agree Ashnook and Smasher have done an outstanding job with the Necronomicom and in truth it was that attention to detail they paid to the system that helped draw me to it.
PSS-Sorry for all the run on sentences.

acid09 I was writing a review and I was almost finished, but my goddamn power went off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/06.gif) ! So I felt I had to write something after all that work! lol

Read my blog for the full story (paranoid conclusions I came to) on that. I am now writing it in word so I can save it periodically .

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 8 2006, 06:04 PM

Greetings,

I certainly am interested in reviewing this book. However I am very busy at the moment with several projects of a Necronomicon nature. So I have not had a chance to analyze the passages to a logical conclusion.

First I am going to sling some mud in SImon's eye and then I am going to defend his actions which I believe I understand.

I was quite surprised to read Simon saying only try to contact the Gate God of the moon if all else fails. What in the hell is the purpose of gate walking if you do not meet the gate gods? Certainly no one decides to make an omelette and leaves out the egg.

Secondly I was a bit upset to hear the derogatory nature in which Simon talked about the Bandar. "It is big. It is bad. It will rip your head off and shit down your neck."
I got so pissed at that point I threw the book down and have not since picked it back up. As I feel the Bandar is a Jinn with more Angelic traits than demonic ones.

After a bit of contemplation I came to realize. Simon is not at all out of character by what he said <Or more correctly did not say.>

The preface to the Necronomicon tells you very clearly that there are blinds in the system to protect the system. On the radio I was pleased to hear Simon say that there are also blinds which were worked into the Necronomicon Spell book. I was pleased because I had come to the conclusion long ago that certain things in the Spellbook are blinds to protect the user from self
abuse.

So I am not at all surprised that Simon threw some blinds into Gates. Why even mention the Gate God unless it is a hint?

Of course I could be wrong. However Simon strikes me as a pretty smart fella. To put it into his own words. He is trying to protect the system from abuse.
Emulating the mad arab SImon says barely enough so that if you are the type person who is favored so by the gods "Take what I have writ here and discover the rest."

Certainly the Necronomicon just scrapes the tip of the iceberg. Beneath the splendid dark icy waters the iceberg goes deep into Apsu. Power unimaginable except by a few there lies. The Necronomicon is just a key. A rusty key at that. It will open the door if you play with the lock long enough. You yourself will have to step through that door to discover what is not written.

Zi Dingir Arannuna Kanpa!

This post has been edited by smasher666: Dec 8 2006, 10:57 PM

we call those OTO traps.

You could always copy and paste.

Generally speaking SM tries to encourage indepth conversations. One liners, while usually let by, are subject to moderation if they are made repeatedly or are simply irrelevant to the topic.

This is exactly what I mean. Rather than just assume everybody knows what OTO traps are, would you extrapolate on this? Give details and tell us what it has to do with the topic. Inother words give me a good reason why I shouldn't delete it.

I know power outages and computer freezes ect ect can be a major drag but we all have to deal with them. And I know you have good ideas to share too. I'm not trying to pick on you I'm just trying to encourage you to abstain from one line posts and share more information.

as much as I dislike the OTO, I took my oath serious when I was in the order. so delete the post if you must my friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

ps. I would not like just anybody to see my story I posted in my blog, which is why I posted it there (knowing only people with over 30 posts can view it, and the one liner nazi's will keep the assholes out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif))

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 9 2006, 03:27 PM

I agree Edunpanna that there binds in there to distract some people from using it, but I think it was done in the wrong context. First of all, this was a book aimed at demystifying the Necronomicon. To actually add another layer of complexity is not really helpful even for serious people. Furthermore, there seems to be a bias against the Eldar Gods and I felt Simon was almost moving towards the Ancient Ones in a couple of points. Why would he do this if the goal of the blinds is protection against misuse? It just left me a bit puzzled, although other parts do the book did really help me with organisation, as the original Necronomicon was not (for me at least) well organised.

I totally agree on the organization of the Nec. All of the formulae is there but it is scattered all around. You have to find all the puzzle pieces and put them together before you can so much as blow your nose. Some things are just hinted at. Other things are completely opposite of what you are supposed to do.

For example it is very clear that you are to go on an astral experience leaving behind the Bandar to guard your body while it sleeps and you walk the spheres. So the line which says fall down and look over the altar is absolutely hilarious if you understand the joke. It being <Almost> impossible to enter the astral with your eyes open that is.

However this thread is not on Nec traps. Or should we call them Mr. Crowley like inside jokes?

Ashnook tells me that Gates was written years before Dead Names. Perhaps Simon had a change of heart since then. Certainly he had a change of heart if you compare the Foreword of Nec. With dead names. We are talking about over a 30 year span of time. Hell I am only 32 and I have had a change of heart many times in life. I hope that I am becoming an older wiser and better person as I go.

I also think we should not over analyze everything Simon says. After all it is just his opinion. It’s not like we are trying interpret Bible passages or something. Just because Simon says something does not mean we need to inscribe it on stone.

We should listen to him because he is a smart guy who knows the system better than most ever will. Also I think he is a nice guy. In my correspondence with him before he dropped off the face of the Earth he struck me as surprisingly humble and very amicable.

Seriously though I do not think that there can be a Grand Pooh-bah of Necronomicon. It is a system set up for individual transformation. I enjoy helping others Gate Walk in my make shift temple but I do not connect them to the power. It is something that is between each man and God. No one can get in the middle of that.

Simon is something of a prophet to bring the book into publication and give us access to the power. Gates he wrote a very long time ago. So lets not dissect it and try to evaluate Simon’s character from it.

I expect because he is nearing the number of Anu that in the future he will write a book talking about many things which he has held his tongue on before.

The blinds are in there set as traps for bung-holes who will rush in and try and do some evil crapola. The blinds are not set for the people who the Gods have chosen to be allowed to see beyond the blinds.

Nearly a million people have bought the Necronomicon. However we do not have a million people on this forum reading the Necronomicon section. So if you are reading these words then quite obviously the Gods have led you here to see through the blinds.

Read Gates definitely but do not over analyze or swallow any pill that tastes bitter. Use your mind. Think for yourself. There you will find the answers.

Smasher666

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Dec 10 2006, 11:33 AM

So far I am about 1/4 of the way through the book. I too have been working on various projects and have not had the time to sit and read it cover to cover. I will say now though that the book's description of reality vs. fantasy helped me understand a lot of questions that I have asked myself before. That is to say that each of us on this board are indeed working beyond was is called "reality," and are delving, no matter what system you ascribe to, uncharted territory. At least it should be somewhat uncharted. Once I finish the tome, I will provide an indepth review of it.

Some things I dislike about the book and would like others opinions on.

First I would like to point out some things simon has said in dead names. First on page 224.




Okay so he is saying the initiates that walk the gates are preparing to attain enlightenment to monitor the gates and defend the planet from being destroyed. Well I can understand how it trains one to be a warrior in the astral since when I walked I never had such a big pack of demons surround me in the astral(sink or swim or something more sinister?). Let’s move on to page 235 in dead names.




So the Necronomicon magician has a social role to also aid the rest of humanity in spiritual advancement. So not only is it important to be spiritually enlightened and monitor the gates it is also the Necronomicon magicians job to advance humanity, if he fails to do so his own enlightenment was in vain.


Now let’s open our copy of Gates and turn to page 164 where Simon concludes his story he told of the elder gods telling mankind about the horrible ancient ones.




Wow what the hell is going on here? I thought we agreed to monitor and keep this gate closed mister! Okay Okay maybe he is a little like me and just trying to stir up trouble and get you to question.

But on the next page he "Simon says"




Now not only do we not give a damn about protecting the gate, we don’t give a shit about our own social role to aid humanity anymore. It is all about just survival and using any spirit at our disposal? How chaos magician like of him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). So which is simon? You can't have it both ways.





Least we agree on something,

Would be nice if simon or someone would respond to the arguement distillate is making. I am at a loss of what to believe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fool.gif)

Assuming that your use of the word “never” was not a typo, I would only state that you failed in your Gate Walking experience. While each person’s Gate journey is unique, being attacked by negative energies or entities, in the astral or otherwise is an experience that has reproduced itself with every Gate walker that I have known. Attacks from within the gate are a must in the Gates’ alchemical formulae. I am also wondering to what extent that you actually explored the initiatory system and indeed in what frame of mind. One could not have successful experiences traveling through the Tree of Life while loathing the system, nor could one journey through the Gates (even if one were to do so in the correct manner) successfully while dispising the Necronomicon. For example: While I respect those who practice Wicca, I am not fond of the system. Because of this, me trying to achieve enlightenment through a Wiccan initiatory process would be a waste of time. I would gain nothing from it. If, on the other hand, I was a practicioner of Wicca, it would render results.




How do you conclude that because Simon instructs the reader to be weary of both the Elder Gods and Ancient Ones, suddenly the Necronomicon Magickian no longer plays a social role? If anything it would strengthen his contention of such. While some Elder Gods, such as Enki or Marduk, may be called upon as an ally to mankind, this is not always the case. The Necronomicon instructs the Priest of the Flame to take his magick to the Underworld and keep the Gate chained. Is not Ereshkigal an Elder Godess? Nergal, while being a plague bringer, is still an Elder God. Enlil dispises mankind. Is he not an Elder God as well? It goes without saying that there are some Elder Gods who can not be trusted and who care nothing for the plight of mankind as a whole. How does a statement like, “Neither side can be fully trusted,” translate to, “The Priest should abandon his social role.”? Allow me to answer. It does not.



You said this in response to, “Our responsibility is to our own survival, both here on Earth and after death. Whoever or whatever helps us in that Quest can be useful to us at that time, no strings attached. Whoever or whatever stands in our way of achieving this simple goal of survival is anathema. It is not the destiny of the human race-the race on Earth- to server as cannon fodder in some real-life version of Star Wars.”


No clearer could it be that the passage is furthering his contention that the Necronomicon Magickian’s job is to aid humanity. “Our responsibility…our own survival,” Simon uses the word “our,” not “your.” This would indicate that he is talking about a group of people rather than the reader as an individual. What group or groups would that be? The first “our,” is followed by the word, “responsibility.” Since Simon has already indicated that the Gates of Ganzir, Arzir, etc. must be kept shut by the Necronomicon Magickian, he must be speaking about the responsibility of Necronomicon Magickians. The next “our,” is in reference to the human race, as indicated three sentences later. Thus it becomes quite clear that Simon is saying that it is the responsibility of the Necronomicon Magickian to play a social role. This social role is explained many of times as being the duty (one of the duties) of keeping those Gates shut and the forces therein to be barred from entering our world.

Furthermore, where does he ever state that the Necronomicon is about using spirits to one’s PERSONAL disposal? All he indicates is that any spirit(s) who stands in humanity’s way of survival is a force that must be overcome.

I think that you are fishing for motives and meanings that simply do not exist.

Ashnook

This post has been edited by Ashnook: Dec 17 2006, 11:51 AM

Greetings,

I agree with Ashnook on this. Simon is saying that the Elder Gods are just our best option for survival. With the exception of Enki, none of the Elder Gods really care if we so much exist or not. But they don't want to destroy us. (Or in the case of Enlil, by agreement, can't.) To the Elder Gods we're an after-thought of creation.
There is a war going on between the Elder Gods and The Ancient Ones. We are in the middle of that, or rather we are subject to it's outcome. If the Elder Gods win and the Gates are kept closed or the Ancients are destroyed, creation as we know it continues.
If the Ancients win, everything ends. Our universe, every universe. It all ends.
Now, in this war, what Simon is saying is that the Elder Gods aren't fighting this war for US, for humanity. The Elder Gods are fighting it for themselves. But through the Necronomicon and our ability to contact the Elder Gods, WE can fight for US.
This is magick for the survival our species and everything we know. Most of the Elder Gods may not love us, but they sure are a better alternative.

I don't see anywhere (in gates) where he thinks the elder gods are going to help survival anymore then the anceint ones.

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 18 2006, 02:58 PM

I agree. He tells us not to trust either side, but to take what they will give us that is useful and discard the rest. Everyone seems to think that the Ancient ones want to destroy the world. Simon tells us that neither side is Evil so why would they want to destroy the world?!? I have not tried to contact anyone from the Ancient ones side. I guess the question to ask is Who do you THINK you can trust?
I for one liked the book. It helped answer some of my questions. One thing I don't understand is it talks about the gate being open when the Bear hangs from its tail, but some of the times that are listed in the table are in the middle of the day?? It also says the you are only allowed to perform the rituals at night....so how does that work? I am talking about The Calling part.

Not saying I disliked the book, indeed it appeals more to a chaos magician. I just want to know why he would change so radically from a book that was published in the same year.

..........


Simon cleary states in "Gates of the Necronomicon," on page 165, that the Ancient Ones are not our friends.



Simon says quite plainly that the warfare between humans is a device of the Ancient Ones so that they may conquer us.

That being said, I will post my review of the book by Friday.

Ashnook

He also says on pg 169



The whole chapter reads like both want the human race destroyed, we have to take the knowledge they give up in order to escape.

I think u may be missing the point of what simon is saying Distillate. What is saying is that neither the Ancient ones nor the Elder Gods want us destroyed. Just for the simple fact that neither care if we exist. But what he is saying is that the Elder Gods won't destroy us simply because they can, the Ancients will.
Ashnook, Endupanna, Myself, Suxur-Mash, and others, full-blooded priests of the Elder Gods, understand that these gods don't love us. But even so, they will impart to us knowledge that will allow us to fight the Ancients and hopefully preserve this universe we know and love.
I can see why though, that you would miss that aspect of Simon's writing in Gates. He wrote the other books much more for the general practitioner. But Gates was really a Priest's Book. It isn't, in all honesty, a book that is accessible to outsiders. I don't mean any insult by saying that, but you aren't a blooded, devoted priest of this path, so you can't feel the energies that we do and that give us an 'insiders' view of Gates.
Simon isn't flip-flopping between viewpoints, he's just fully explaining all aspects of the views our people accept.
Peace. .

IF simon was "blooded" I doubt he would say this on pg 189 of dead names.





So he is going to bad mouth Enki for what? To prove a point in the chapter? I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Simon never practiced a ritual out of the necronomicon or sumerian tablet. Any idiot who has practiced this paradigm knows Enki is the kindest God and one which the magic of the system depends on.

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 18 2006, 09:25 PM

damnit where are you boys at? I want the truth *slams fist on desk* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hi everyone,

So, would you say that this book isn't a necessary companion to Simon's Necronomicon?

I ask from the viewpoint that most of the power from Simon's Necronomicon comes from the energies of the source materials. The more Simon alters or adds to that material, the more he risks sapping it's vigor, right? I know that Simon remake of Sumero-Babylonian religion and Cthulhu mythos doesn't adhere faithfully to either tradition, but it's a wonderfully written book, isn't it? It's awe-inspiring when it means to be, and is wonderfully terrifying when it intends to. But he owes that to the Sumerians and Lovecraft as much to himself, doesn't he?

Sorry if it's not a good question, but I'm afraid to read the later books if they are going to 'spoil' the first one for me.

Hagetaka

I wish they had these books (dead names/ gates) when I started. As long as you're critically thinking you can't go wrong, and nothing will be "spoiled."

Where are the nec boys and their response to pg 189! I think that will be the name of the next song I write "page 189!"

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 22 2006, 01:44 AM

Dead Names is a good read, but not necessarily essential. I would still recommend it though. I am not done with his Gates book yet, but from what I have read so far I would recommend it to anyone interested in working the initiatory aspect of the Necronomicon. His Freudian analysis of the Underworld journey helped put a lot of things into perspective.

As per page 189, I am pausing the debate until I do finish the book and post my review. Dont worry Distillate, I wont be much longer. Let me finish the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/book.gif) , then I will get back to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sport_boxing.gif) .

Ashnook

WE ARE 189!