I'm looking for ways to make the gnosis more easier for the armchair magicians.

No stand-up swirling , spinning ,masturbation...something that can be done while seated.

Meditation seems like a good idea,but gnosis to me seems closer to the dhyana/jhana stages of eastern mystics which apparantly takes years to attain.
(Someone please prove me wrong here!)- so i've lost interest in that too.

Sneezing is good .(As long as we dont get to the stage where pepper does nothing for us)

I liked Sherwin's (?) body spasm technique -by twitching all parts of the body one- by -one(has anybody tried this?)

Are there any other techniques similar to this?

Anybody got an Inhibitory gnosis handbook (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sleep deprivation, fasting, or extended single point awareness are the majority of your options if you don't want to work too hard at it.

It's possible for anyone in any situation to achieve gnosis, if they're willing to put the time in it.

Yes, it often takes years from beginning to end. But, that isn't to say you'll never achieve it in short order, rather, at first it is a brief moment, a transient sensation of altered reality that will come and go in a flash. Usually afterwards you will come to some conclusion 'out of no where' while doing something unrelated all together. You also may very well not remember those moment for very long, at least in terms of what exactly you experienced. That's normal, if you keep at it your control over it will gradually increase.

However, if you are not motivated to do the work, you will not achieve results. Magick, mysticism, gnosis, enlightenment, it takes Work, you HAVE to evolve yourself, challenge yourself, build yourself up. If you don't want to work hard, then prepare to be very, very patient instead.

peace

Thanks for the reply Dreamer

My post might reflect my lethargy , but i assure you i'm willing to put every bit of myself into this work.

I pick masturbation over fasting, sleep deprivation;they never worked well for me,I never know when it 'clicks'.

The death posture variations seem alright too.(anybody got a link to a compilation?)

Another one might be :putting your head between your knees, hyperventilating & standing up
(read that on one of these forums; supposedly works beautifully)

I've considered meditating on the sigil ,but i assume it takes a zen type concentration,which i dont think i can reproduce at will.

What i'm after is an alternative to meditation,masturbation . A straightforward technique that'd help me recognize the state more often in less than 10 minutes.
I'm sure practicing an exercise for an hour(?) a day would bring about fruitful results in a long time.
I'm after the technique.

I'm currently considering sherwin's body spasm technique / a variation in the death posture maybe.
Is there anything similar , straighforward.

Thanks

Hypnosis / NLP ideas anybody?

Not to be overly simplistic . . . but . . .
have you tried neither-neither, it has all be simplistic benefits of a meditative approach with the actualizing of energy of the more stimulant varieties of practices.

just a thought

Looking into gnosis can be a really hairy thing to go into. One major thing is, of course, to "gnosify" oneself by looking at things, mulling them over, and realizing. After all, Gnosis connotates "knowing."

So without further ado, I give you, the dynamic of gnosis:

Realize>>Concieve>>Accept>>Execute

Realize what facts are out there. Conceive of what they COULD mean. Accept the reactions you have, that the world has to such a finding or knowledge thereof to what knowledge you come across, or whatever you survey. Also accept the reality of what effects are to come from your realization, and what coming across this knowledge means, and how you change. Execute your newfound knowledge.

Then the cycle resumes:

REALIZE what you have done, and of the consequences of your actions, or of furthering a possibility by a certain tangent of thought, CONCEIVE of further notions, ACCEPT that as a possibility/reality when it is to come, and EXECUTE your will over such a possibility.

Now using this dynamic, it is wise to look at things at how they are all interconnected, preferably by means of mathematical divination and gematria. Possibly even alchemical reasoning, seeing as how gnosis was a preffered approach among them. For instance:

"The steps of the dynamic were of a count of 4. 4 corresponds with the number of main elements. There is a parallel of dynamic with each of the dynamic steps, and the dynamic method in which the elementals move and process, especially true in instances of metaphor."

Another gnostic reasoning:

"Music uses a base of 8 for it's counting. Music is a measurement of sound. Sound is a measurement of frequency and vibration. The universe has such vibration. Thus, music is always true as a proof, and thus, a count 8 base may be used in many and most instances of gnostic reasoning under the stars."

Now take this!!>>

"4 is a factor of 8, which is a multiple of 4. Perhaps then, music and the elements may have something to do with each other??" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/compress.gif)

Be careful! unless one is properly rooted, they will VERY QUICKLY be taken off their guard into a state of "Gnostic Insanity"

....I forgot who was the one that quoted, "One half genius, one half insane." This is very true.

With gnosis running wild, one will slip into a schizoid state. BE CAREFUL!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/uglyhammer.gif)

Have fun.

The true GNOSTIC seeks to become angelic while still alive. I will point out that is the uttermost extreme. But you wont do it by sitting in any armchair. Physically good condition is a huge factor. The goal is basically to be perfect. we as humans were not meatn to be so extreme not in my opinion anyways.
after many long monthes studying and courses in gnosis it did help a great deal but in the end all gnostics i end up speaking too think of themselves as the highest mighties things on earth.

Here is a link if you are truly interested. But just a quick jot through the forum will show you they listen to no one but themselves...


http://www.gnosticweb.com/index.php?PageID=1 There are some good astral projection and other courses you can take here. But i avoid the gnostics just because there attitude is very "christian" and i just mean its there way or the highway.

umm . . . maybe theres a missing distinction here between gnosis (altered state) and gnostic (heretic quasi early christian contemporary religion).
I think this thread is on the former . . gnosis.

That's sort of what I was thinking when I came back to this thread.

Gnosis is direct spiritual awareness and/or knowledge (the two being arguably either distinct or synonymous)

No amount of reasoning will bring about a state of Gnosis, or spiritual awareness, regarding any particular subject. Gnosis is categorically beyond the realm of the reasoning mind, which is why the gnostic state of mind (the state of achieving Gnosis, not the state of mind of a Gnostic) relies on various techniques to undermine the logical mind, either through some exhaustive method or through some method of 'stilling' the mind.

Wyrdscience, what you're referring to is correspondence contemplation. There may be another more suitable term for it, but it isn't gnosis, it's abstract reasoning. Nothing about this system you've presented involves an altered state of consciousness, and contemplation will keep you in your reasoning mind rather than get you out of it.

That said, your method combined with some method of consciousness alteration towards the ends of achieving gnosis, is not a bad idea, as such contemplation can prime one's consciousness to achieve a particular 'area' of direct awareness, the true nature of numbers, rhythm, etc.

Also, music is not always divided on a scale of 8, that's a particularly western orientation of music - although music is always factorable by 4...

peace

addition: Was reading some of the threads on the gnostic forum that Enochian offered, as well as the forums at Gnosis-Usa, and found his suggestion to be largely true! But what can you expect from a philosophy that hinges on personal experiential knowledge? We occultists already know that while there are universal axioms upon which the macrocosmic universe operates, they are more refined and individual on the microcosmic level of the Self. Most people will not have the same experience, and will come to difference conclusions about the nature of existence.

That is, until they break free of the illusion of existence all together, but you don't normally hear back from those people. O_O

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Jan 8 2007, 07:23 AM

Then, I at least thank you for maturely pointing out the difference, and on which areas improvement should be based upon. Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Although, as they say, "Knowing is half the battle." (bad pun, bad pun, don't send any curses my way, please!)

this may be useful or not - i wrote something awhile ago that gives an altered state - using the brain itself to trick the brain into an altered state

left brain vs right brain

sit quietly, close your eyes, breathe out slowly for 5 seconds, then work really hard (in your head) on a large number addition problem or number series (count from 0 to 66 by 3's or like that where you have to think - don't let it get repetitive or slip away) where it requires the brain to think logically (left brain), coloring each result with a particular color you associate with that number (right brain), and then burst the final result into a huge swarm of tiny pretty confetti like fish (left brain) that move around as a school (right brain), then color each individual fish a particular color from the number series (both brains), then the fish come out your head and swim around wherever you are, schooling and shoaling (and hiding all sorts of places when they're scared by sounds, etc!) - open your eyes and look around - its almost a dream-like state with body gone and it lasts fairly long, especially if you keep very still and are still seeing the fish

can this altered state be used for gnosis? guess it depends on how you use it - what do you do once you're there? just sit there and experience it, basking in the gliow, or do you ask questions and listen for answers or what? what questions do you ask? are they the same questions each time?

as usual, y'all got me thinking!

Hmmm well gnosis itself is rather boreing to talk about. It simply means knowledge. And it can be obtained in ohhhh so many ways.
It has nothing to do with any specific technique at all.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Jan 8 2007, 01:42 PM

Esoterica: When one achieves gnosis at first, it is difficult to get 'what you want' out of it. Rather, you will more than likely attain insights which will further your immediate situation in some way - basically, the insights that you will require in order to achieve a more 'conscious' experience of gnosis.

Once the state of mind is mastered, much like astral projection, you can go where you will and seek out insight into specific matters. Because of this natural system of initiation and progression towards mastery, which is immutable unfortunately - and therefore the reason why there is no 'insta-gnosis' - after one has decided on a technique for inducing the state of mind, progress is inevitable and perfect, every time, barring the individual's inability to handle the sometimes heavy blow to the ego/psyche that can occaisionally hit ya.

And enochian is right - talking about gnosis is pretty boring because you can really only talk about what it is, not what it's like or how it changes you. Experiential knowledge is tricky like that.

peace

thanks - i suppose i shouldn;t abbriviate vagrant dreamer as 'vd', but thanks vd!

then i guess the fish *would* work as a gnosis excercise one can do just about anywhere (wouldn't recommend doing it standing up) , cause you get plenty of insights in that whole-mind state, or at least i do

If i had to categorize it and say one thing has helped more than another. It would have to be the contact with my higher self,holy ghost,demon,gaurdian angel ,etc... It is a very superior way to either gain knowledge or to re cover what you have learned form a differant angle.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Jan 8 2007, 03:07 PM

Well, superior for you.

I probably wouldn't have pointed it out, but as it happens I took an interest in gnostics after you mentioned one forum, and claimed that they were mostly pretty haughty and self-absorbed - in essence, I mean who else acts like that? - so I went looking around, to a different forum at (can I show this?) www.gnosticteachings.org - and browsed through a few threads, and then found a pdf link to a book called the Perfect Matrimony. Now, this book is not apparently strictly gnosticism in the fact that they are not orthodox, i.e. more or less original gnostics, but rather a sort of revival. This gentleman, Samael Aun Weor, treks all over the earth studying mystical religions and digging through books, initiated by masters, eventually encounters his inner divine being, etc. He synthesizes all of these experiences into one philosophy, uncovering the 'truth' that sexual alchemy is at the root of all religion. He writes sixty some odd books on gnostic philosophy, and this particular book is the unveiling of never before published secrets of sexual magick, tantric alchemy of the white lodge, or something like that.

Now, Hopefully people would agree here that I'm a reasonable poster, I don't get personally involved too much in what i'm debating, and I do love to debate, I try to be logical and express myself clearly. Well, I had some questions about the relationship between homosexuality and gnosis. Now, they believe that only through sexual alchemy can an individual attain spiritual awakening, ultimately for the purpose of creating a spiritual body of sorts, which will be consistently aware, even when the body is asleep or, ultimately, dead. Sounds familiar enough.

Well failure to achieve this is reincarnation, or possibly hell, depending on wether you just float through life, attain spiritual awakening, or practice some form of transmutation which does the opposite of what it's supposed to do, in which case you're like, aware but in hell... I kind of lost track of it at that point, honestly, I started getting responses to the thread that I introduced there, sharing my own experience with energetic polarity and the yin/yang, masculine/feminine, duality. They believe that homosexuals, along with anyone who damages their sexual organs, has orgasms and/or ejaculates, cannot find or even effectively seek spiritual awakening, that sexual alchemy is the only way to attain true gnosis among other things. This may be a problem for those of you (and me) who have been achieving the gnostic state through other means - apparently it's all a lie. And while you should never orgasm, you also can only achieve transmutation by having sex with a woman, exclusively, and regularly, but never to climax. If you're a bachelor, pranayama will get you part of the way there, but only so far. Too bad for the poor ugly guy in the corner, he'll be back around next time.

After being judged and chastised for being gay, and a lengthy introduction to some of Aun Weor's quotes - these Gnostics, by the way, believe strictly in experiential knowledge, like Thelema, don't believe anything intellectually, put your money on gnosis exclusively; which is why they stand behind the teachings of their Master Samael (aun Weor.) - without getting even one logical explanation of any personal experiential knowledge regarding homosexuality and sexual alchemy, except that it was an unforgivable kind of sin, and that only the 'black lodge' practice homosexuality (like the darkside, black lodge, white lodge, see?) - they deleted the thread. No explanation, not warning, no talk of that it might happen, not even locking the topic. Bam I went to check and it's gone.

Of course they don't stand for all gnostics, but over the course of this little exchange I began to understand a little more the nature of individual spiritual paths. We're all structured a particular way for the purpose of carrying out whatever will we brought with us into the material world. We have to have certain physical characteristics, certain personality quirks, a certain kind of relationship between intellect and intuition, so that we will be more likely to discover and fulfill that will. That will may be a worldly purpose or a spiritual purpose. Not everyone feels a call to a spiritual destiny. What determines what we are doing, and why we are here? The nature of our spirit.

And not everyone's spirit is here for the same purpose. We are the body of God, our spirits extensions of his will, some with a different structure, purpose, and origin than others. What works for one person or even a large group of people, will not work for everyone for this purpose. Their manifest structure, mind, body, and spirit, requires a particular kind of path in order to accomplish it's will, a path that will be in line with that will, and more importantly is compatible with the manifest structure of the individual. These things sort of drifted together while I was reading, and they are observations I have made before during meditation on the subject of the 'best path' or the 'correct path'. Discrete insights which formed this larger realization. what I perceived was a little more complex than this, having to do with 'altitudes' I would call them, of dimensional density, from which individual consciousness is expressed into manifestation. The different densities were each composed a different sort of harmonic, which would interact with the other densities in different ways when manifested, and what results is a complex sort of swirly energetic pattern sort of like rain drops on a pond, more like the pond was just vibrating on it's own from a million different vortices on it's surface. savvy? Each individual path on the microcosm is an aspect of the greater path of God itself in the Macrocosm, each one essential and valid for that reason.

I've been in contact with my higher self. It's a distinctly different sensation than other more effective methods I have experienced of connecting to heightened awareness and 'gnosis'. I know it has to do with the way I think. I don't personify natural forces, i'm capable of acknowledging completely inhuman consciousness, even though i can't synthesize it beyond the awareness of it's truth. To me those two experiences are not the same, although many people interpret communion with their higher self in this more pure-awareness gnostic sense. I know people who literally have a conversation with their inner/higher/etc. The same goes for evocation.

If the spiritual work had to be approached from the same direction by every individual, if there was only one way, then we'd be on it instinctively - it would be the will that we brought with us into manifestation and we would all recognize it for what it was. As it stands, it is rather our nature to evolve in individual ways, even if that is individual cultures, or group minds, rather than just an individual.

I'm not sure exactly why I felt the need to post all this, but as I started to read this book, the perfect matrimony, I was really inspired and taken in by this philosophy on the sacredness of love and sex and all that, and it was incredibly disappointing to see it fostered and promoted by people who are so narrow and limited in their understanding - their as literal as the christians, just including a few extra books.

All that to say, there is no superior way to gain such higher knowledges. It depends on the individual. While it could be argued that we experience the same phenomenon in different ways rather than there being several different methods and experience categories, it sort of renders the point of labeling them in the first place pointless.

Which, actually, it sort of is.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Jan 9 2007, 01:35 AM

non-orgasmic consciousness - hmpf - i'll have the fish instead, if you grok me

This post has been edited by esoterica: Jan 9 2007, 05:07 PM

I'd be willing to settle for the ability to slow/stop bullets with an outstretched hand.

Quite honestly though, whenever I hear the term, "Great Work," Neo is who I think of...although not even so much in terms of cool powers, but rather just getting to the point where you're truly experientially aware of reality being that fluid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/gleam.gif)