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 Uses Of Enochian Magic |
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| Imperial Arts |
 Jan 21 2007, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(Hamilton @ Jan 20 2007, 07:07 PM)  Hey, before I delve too deeply into the topic, what are the uses of Enochian Magick, and what is the purpose of skrying the Aethyrs? What is it like?
This is definitely not my field of expertise, but a brief glance at Geoffrey James' book indicates that Enochian magick users can expect to
1. Find deposits of gems and veins of metal ore (geology)
2. Transport things from one place to another (mechanics)
3. Transform substances (chemistry)
4. Produce medicines (pharmacology)
All of these have hundreds of sub-groupings that fall under these general headings, so one might have conjurations tailored to specific forms of chemistry or emchanics etc..
Additionally there are 91 regional governors who are expected to perform various functions in remote places across the world, but it is somewhat difficult to assign these properly as the map was a little less than complete in Dee's time.
The first series of calls are used to call the Tablet spirits, and the Aethyrs are called to give audeince of the 91 Governors. Common sage is slightly different with the Tablets given standard "elemental" provenance and the Governors more or less neglected in favor of an advancing scheme of astral fantasy as one probes the Aethyrs as if they were lands to explore.
Personally I think it likely that the system would function as Dee claims, but since I've never met a doctor, engineer, chemist, or geologist who cold attribute any reasonable degree of their success to Enochian magick, I can only assume the present claimants are either failing to produce results or that they are simply doing something else entirely while assuming it is the same subject.
As for claims of spiritual progress from Enochian magick, I can only guess that such are made as an excuse for an otherwise fruitless effort. Dee's records appear to indicate that his spirituality was frequently debased by the spirits, who told him to cease worshiping Jesus (his deity), encouraged marital infidelity, and in general seemed to have confused him more than exalted him. if there were anything that mght be considered spiritual in Dee's records, it is his devotional prayers and other work done more or less in spite of what the spirits revealed and offered to perform, which were entirely material works with what would have been observable effects.
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| J*S |
Jan 22 2007, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 21 2007, 07:27 PM)
As for claims of spiritual progress from Enochian magick, I can only guess that such are made as an excuse for an otherwise fruitless effort. Dee's records appear to indicate that his spirituality was frequently debased by the spirits, who told him to cease worshiping Jesus (his deity), encouraged marital infidelity, and in general seemed to have confused him more than exalted him. if there were anything that mght be considered spiritual in Dee's records, it is his devotional prayers and other work done more or less in spite of what the spirits revealed and offered to perform, which were entirely material works with what would have been observable effects.
Yet consider the contents of Liber 418. From that I would say it is fairly clear that certain aspects of the system do constitute an initiatory process, specifically the work of the aethyrs. Even the Schuellers (who are otherwise despicable) have an interesting section on this in their first book, which given the paucity of work on the subject isn't bad provided that you ignore everything they have to say about magick in general (No, I am not summoning an Enochian spirit to improve my appreciation of classical music!!). I also find it questionable as to whether being instructed to change his religious practice could be taken as evidence that the work was of no spiritual benefit to Dee. That seems to assume that the C16th mode of pious christianity that he espoused is right on the button, which is not true for many. How many of us have been bashed by one spirit or another and essentially told, "No! Don't do that! Do this!" It is no different as far as I can see.
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"If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?" Liber Librae, AC
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| Imperial Arts |
Jan 22 2007, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE(J*S @ Jan 22 2007, 01:37 AM) Yet consider the contents of Liber 418. From that I would say it is fairly clear that certain aspects of the system do constitute an initiatory process, specifically the work of the aethyrs.
I also find it questionable as to whether being instructed to change his religious practice could be taken as evidence that the work was of no spiritual benefit to Dee. That seems to assume that the C16th mode of pious christianity that he espoused is right on the button, which is not true for many.
Liber 418 is a fair distance from what I would call "real Enochian magic," and the same could be said for the Golden Dawn's variations. The spirits were pretty clear about how to work the system, and the popular modern approaches discard a lot of those instructions and add a host of new ones. They are Enochian-themed, but they aren't Enochian magic proper. If you play baseball with no bat, no bases, and badminton raquets, is it still baseball?
The work described by the spirits was entirely material, and to dismiss it as symbolic is pure cowardice. If you don't believe it possible to do those things in the real and literal sense, the only way to find out is to get the tools and try the system according to the way the spirits say it should be done. It's less than 300 bucks and about two weeks of daily work, that's not a bad price for miracles.
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| J*S |
Jan 22 2007, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 22 2007, 05:42 PM)
Liber 418 is a fair distance from what I would call "real Enochian magic," and the same could be said for the Golden Dawn's variations. The spirits were pretty clear about how to work the system, and the popular modern approaches discard a lot of those instructions and add a host of new ones. They are Enochian-themed, but they aren't Enochian magic proper. If you play baseball with no bat, no bases, and badminton raquets, is it still baseball?
The work described by the spirits was entirely material, and to dismiss it as symbolic is pure cowardice. If you don't believe it possible to do those things in the real and literal sense, the only way to find out is to get the tools and try the system according to the way the spirits say it should be done. It's less than 300 bucks and about two weeks of daily work, that's not a bad price for miracles.
Well, it looks like this is a case of how we define our terms. As far as I am concerned anything that makes use of, or is derived from, Enochian communications (past or present) constitutes Enochian magic. I speak from experience when I say that in no way is it necessary to stick to the traditional formulae in order to make contact with these spirits (although I should point out that I do own and make use of all the paraphernalia...Holy Table, Aemeths, seals e.t.c.). In a similar manner, I also think that to dismiss the modern interpretations/variations/extrapolations from the GD and AC as totally invalid is a mistake. If it works, and the experience of countless magicians proves that it does, then that should be sufficient justification, and in magic as in all things efficiency is the ultimate criteria. The question is, what do you want to accomplish? This may seem tangential to the point although I think it is relevant so please bear with me, but another thing I feel moved to comment on at this point is the compartmental attitude that we are forced to take in this discussion. The language we employ works against us. We have set up categories of "genuine Enochian" and "Crowley's Enochian" and "GD Enochian" (okay, the whole thing with the Sphynxs bugs the hell out of me too). As the late, great RAW consistently reminded us "The Map is not the Territory", and "The Menu is not the Meal". My own view is that the Powers are in a constant state of motion, much like the cosmos they represent, and any form of ritual technology we employ in order to gain access to them is always secondary to the communication itself. The spirits are the reality, the rituals and maps are just tools. Anyway, what I am trying to say (poorly) is that yes, the original communications do provide for material workings, and if people want to use the system for that it is fine by me. What I do insist upon is that, if pursued in a different manner and for particular ends, the Enochian system can have an initiatory aspect.
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"If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?" Liber Librae, AC
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| Lucian |
Jan 24 2007, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 22 2007, 11:42 AM)
The work described by the spirits was entirely material, and to dismiss it as symbolic is pure cowardice. If you don't believe it possible to do those things in the real and literal sense, the only way to find out is to get the tools and try the system according to the way the spirits say it should be done. It's less than 300 bucks and about two weeks of daily work, that's not a bad price for miracles.
Ave Because some one has a different perspective, does not make it worse or the cause of this difference in opinion imply a deffiency in the person who percieves it. While you see it as a material system, some see it as a spiritual system, it's the same for the world, see it as you like. Ad Scientiam
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Procul Este Profani!
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| Imperial Arts |
Jan 24 2007, 10:49 PM
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Well, let's hear it from the professionals. Raise your hand if all of the following apply to your Enochian practice:
1. Banners of the Linea Spiritus Sancti around the work-space
2. Sigillum Dei Ameth in colorless wax, nine inches across with a dip in the middle
3. A wooden table with the Sigillum on top, covered by a colored cloth, and seals beneath the feet
4. A rug beneath the table
5. A crystal or glass orb over the Sigillum
6. Conjurations made aloud daily for at least two weeks, of increasing frequency
7. A conjuror and scryer
Any hands? If so, I'd love to hear about your results.
For the rest of you, can you use Enochian magick to find metal ores and mineral deposits, move them across the earth, and transmute them into medicine? If so, describe. If not, why not?
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| J*S |
Jan 25 2007, 06:52 AM
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1. Banners of the Linea Spiritus Sancti around the work-space
I have framed paintings of the individual watchtowers at the moment with names from the LSS on the Tablet of Union which I put on the table of practice. This is the way I was taught which I assume is a GD variation. I don't recall the injunction for the LSS to be on banners but my memory of actually reading that stuff is hazy. I am looking into the possibility of getting some silk banners made for when I get around to installing a permanent temple in my spare room.
2. Sigillum Dei Ameth in colorless wax, nine inches across with a dip in the middle
Mine is made from wood with the help of a craftsman friend. More durable for transport if I am working at someone else's place.
3. A wooden table with the Sigillum on top, covered by a colored cloth, and seals beneath the feet
I have a wooden table purchased specially for the purpose with a "Holy Table" false top made with the help of the same chap. Also the small seals done the same way as the large Aemeth.
4. A rug beneath the table
Aye...makeshift...I want a new rug, but rugs are expensive!
5. A crystal or glass orb over the Sigillum
I use a black mirror. I have tried a "crystal" ball but I get on much better with the mirror.
6. Conjurations made aloud daily for at least two weeks, of increasing frequency
Never done this...my memory is fuzzy, but is this not for establishing intial contacts when doing the Liber Logaeth stuff? I did once participate in a week long ritual which involved several conjurations of various Daughters of Light though.
7. A conjuror and scryer
When operating at home I tend to go for operator and scribe. I operate, doing the opening banishings and consecrations, then she enters the temple and takes her seat whilst I open the Watchtowers and make the evocations. When that is complete I sit down and scry. Not traditional, but it works.
As for my results, at the moment I am working primarily with the Seniors and Sons and Daughters of Light, I also have occasional contact with some of the Governors and the King and Prince of the hours. Once this cycle of work is complete there are various others that I have been instructed to speak to, but I'm afraid the content of the conversations is for me and my scribe alone at the moment!
I'd be interested to hear, without excessive detail that may not be appropriate for discussion, about other peoples' methodologies for this kind of work.
Edit: It occurs to me that if folks are interested in responding to that it would take the thread kinda off topic. If mods agree and maybe want to make it into a new thread that would be cool! Cheers.
This post has been edited by J*S: Jan 25 2007, 06:59 AM
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"If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?" Liber Librae, AC
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| Imperial Arts |
Jan 25 2007, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE(J*S @ Jan 25 2007, 04:52 AM) I don't recall the injunction for the LSS to be on banners but my memory of actually reading that stuff is hazy.
I want a new rug, but rugs are expensive!
6. Conjurations made aloud daily for at least two weeks, of increasing frequency
Never done this...my memory is fuzzy, but is this not for establishing intial contacts when doing the Liber Logaeth stuff? I did once participate in a week long ritual which involved several conjurations of various Daughters of Light though.
As for my results, at the moment I am working primarily with the Seniors and Sons and Daughters of Light, I also have occasional contact with some of the Governors and the King and Prince of the hours. Once this cycle of work is complete there are various others that I have been instructed to speak to, but I'm afraid the content of the conversations is for me and my scribe alone at the moment!
The banners are depicted as being 12 little flags staked into the ground around the work area with each one having part of the LSS on it. The fact that it appears to be an outdoor operation might account for the two square yards of red silk that goes under the table.
It isn't really specified whether or not the order of practice is supposed to be one's own prayers to one's own idea of God, or those incorporating the names and concepts from the tablets. It is done for initial contact, and whatever sort of prayer it might be, it would appear to keep people from getting anything unless they had a bit of discipline.
My concern over Enochian, and many conjuring works, is that the people practicing them end up with reams of spirit-revealed talk and not a lot of actual knowledge or assistance from the spirits. It's a sort of wild-goose-chase with the assumed objective of spiritual advancement, but almost always without foundation.
The spirits themselves declare their purposes, and not one of them said anything to Dee about being conjured for the sole purpose of his enlightenment. Do we assume they were misleading on purpose, or outright lying?
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| J*S |
Jan 25 2007, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 25 2007, 03:38 PM) The banners are depicted as being 12 little flags staked into the ground around the work area with each one having part of the LSS on it. The fact that it appears to be an outdoor operation might account for the two square yards of red silk that goes under the table. Interesting. I have no recollection of ever even reading about the flags! I must see if I can get some time in my friend's study to go over his books again. He has a lot of the good stuff that is either out of print or out of budget for me at the moment. QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 25 2007, 03:38 PM) My concern over Enochian, and many conjuring works, is that the people practicing them end up with reams of spirit-revealed talk and not a lot of actual knowledge or assistance from the spirits. It's a sort of wild-goose-chase with the assumed objective of spiritual advancement, but almost always without foundation. I agree that this is a huge pitfall to be guarded against, and maintaining objectivity about the quality of the results can be one of the biggest challenges, as can interpreting what is being revealed to you in the correct way. I can't really offer any solutions to the issue though, as maintaining a sense of perpspective is important in all magical work and perhaps most acutely so in work of this nature. I think it is in these kind of operations that the benefit of having involvement with other magicians to review and discuss with really comes to the fore. QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 25 2007, 03:38 PM) Do we assume they were misleading on purpose, or outright lying? I think that most of them are, and I hope they will excuse me for saying it, tricksy bastards! This post has been edited by J*S: Jan 25 2007, 10:01 AM
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"If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?" Liber Librae, AC
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| Ashnook |
Jan 25 2007, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 25 2007, 09:38 AM) My concern over Enochian, and many conjuring works, is that the people practicing them end up with reams of spirit-revealed talk and not a lot of actual knowledge or assistance from the spirits. I think you will find that in most systems, though what is actual knowledge? QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 25 2007, 09:38 AM) It's a sort of wild-goose-chase with the assumed objective of spiritual advancement, but almost always without foundation. That is assuming that a foundation is even necessary for spiritual advancement to happen. One could certainly wager than any religio/spiritual working, whether the operator calls it theurgy or thaumaturgy (which I have yet to find a real difference in), puts their mind/soul in a certain state as to achieve some sort of "advancement" with each ritual. Let us say that a kabbalist goes to explore a piece of the tree of life with the sole purpose of spiritual advancement. Now let us assume that a Chaos magickian goes about making a sigil whose intent is to get him/her some money. What is, in the grand scheme of things, the difference? Nothing. Both altered their perception/will to create a desired result, and hence both we able to explore their spirit/mind/soul/whateverthehellyouwanttocallit. I think it is safe to make the assumption that the kabbalist used a foudation, whereas the chaot did not, and again we (or at least I) see no inherent difference. QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Jan 25 2007, 09:38 AM) The spirits themselves declare their purposes, and not one of them said anything to Dee about being conjured for the sole purpose of his enlightenment. Do we assume they were misleading on purpose, or outright lying?[/color] Read above. While certain spirits have certain function concerning their ability to alter OUR reality, they would all serve the purpose of causing us (at least if we wish to summon them) to alter our perception/will and thus begins an investigation, whether consious or sub-concious, into our spirit/mind/soul/whateverthehellyouwanttocallit. In this thread I have assumed that the term "enlightenment" will have at least SOMETHING to do with investigating the nature of the spirit/mind/soul/whateverthehellyouwanttocallit, which in my studies it usually does. The desired result of "enlightenment" may be different, but most forms that I have heard of are still dependent upon a study of the self, ie spirit/mind/soul/whateverthehellyouwanttocallit. -Ashnook
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| Imperial Arts |
Jan 25 2007, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE(Ashnook @ Jan 25 2007, 10:02 AM) Let us say that a kabbalist goes to explore a piece of the tree of life with the sole purpose of spiritual advancement. Now let us assume that a Chaos magickian goes about making a sigil whose intent is to get him/her some money. What is, in the grand scheme of things, the difference? Assuming success in both conjurations, the "chaos magickian" will have something tangible as a demonstration of his magical power.
Maybe the problem here is the allowances made for the Enochian system based on its historic precedence. It is delivered to us through the work of an important person, had a role in the development of people important to the occult, and attracts a significant following among our contemporaries. So when it says you can find minerals and make them into medicines, it is permissible to think it is somehow symbolic or meant in a spiritual context, as something so influential "couldn't possibly" be bullcrap.
Assume one of the people in this forum declares he has found a brand-spanking-new occult system where all the spirits are named things like BHJKLGH and that they have spoken to him about how they can be invoked to procure riches, mechanical marvels, and medicines. When put to the question, our source replies it is merely allegory and that the spirits are simply agents of initiation and spiritual guides with lengthy and complicated messages. How many of you would put up the effort to do it?
It's important to test occult systems to find out what the hype is about, but in all frankness, they ought to be held to their promises. If a spirit says it will do something, as the Enochian spirits do, I say they are liable for doing that at least, and possibly discarded if they fail repeatedly.
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| Neshamah |
Jul 24 2008, 09:03 AM
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If I may, I'd like to add my own interpretation of the "Angel" communications to Dee and Kelley (and let me restate -- this is MY interpretation). The "Angels" used Dee and Kelley, teasing them with ideas of a glorious Kingdom (of Britain) and enormous wealth (through the materials they promised to provide). But, the real purpose of the "Angelic" communication was to deliver the Enochian Language and the Elemental Tablets (and the Aethyrs, the SdA, etc.). This "System" delivered by the "Angels" was / is intended to function as a "spiritual Alchemy," to transform the User. The above interpretation should cause alarm to any person planning to use Enochian Magick. The "Angels" deliberately misled Dee and Kelley in order to promote their own agenda: Is it possible that they (the "Angels") continue to mislead the Users of this "System" even today ? I'll leave that discussion for another thread. (IMG: style_emoticons/default/7.gif) I'll add that I continue to practice Enochian Magick, even today. I do so with the "understanding" that the "Angels" have their own Agenda -- but that doesn't keep me from using them for my own Agenda. For a Peace Profound. Edit: Formatting. This post has been edited by Neshamah: Jul 24 2008, 09:04 AM
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Neshamah, F.'.R.'.C.'. 
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