Have joined an eseoteric (sp?) study group who encourage students to throw out their Tarot cards and start to understand the Yi-Ching, talking about Oracles over divinators, fortune tellers and what not and it surprised me.

I mean if you were to go to someone who uses the tarot to give you a reading and then go to someone who uses the Yi-Ching which would give the best results? Can see that the Yi-Ching has a more established background prehaps being 6000 years old but what do you think...?

HTP
Dk

Greetings Dark Knight,

For me there is no question, Yi-Ching is far superior to the Tarot for divination as there is much less interpretation on the part of the reader. I use the Tarot exclusively for path working the Tree.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

Yi-ching by far. Chinese spirits have a bit of an advantage having over 6,000 years of an organized celestial bureaucracy that handles alot of their esoteric data. Their approach is systematic, gematric, and logical as a fitting application to life in both mundane and spiritual fields. There is ALOT to go around with them, and working a bit for them, I also adoped some of their methods of spiritual diplomacy (it adds a nice touch as a safe method for dealing with spirits in a bad mood! No one knows bureaucratic neutrality like the chinese spirits do!!)

I like it. Seeing as how I use a similar sytematic approach with uniting science and magick (technomancy/mancilogia (technical divination/science of divination)), the Yi-ching does both on an even more ambivalent level. VERY effective.

***** rating thread!

I don't think I could call one better then the other . . . in all cases.
Each of these have been developed to speak in cooperation with different parts of the psyche and the collective spiritual spectrum.

One is more analytic leading to intuitive abstraction. The other is more intuitive, encouraging refinement and an analytic distillation.

I could only guess that the one's that best is the one that you get the most accurate or informative responses from.

Its like asking which is best, cosidering undesirable aspects of your psyche as destructively repressed experiences or as "bad" spirits. If you can answer that, and that answer is applicable for anyone else, you may already be the winner of a Noble Peace Prize.

Sorry, no help here.

This post has been edited by palindroem: Feb 6 2007, 04:49 PM

I could never step away from my tarot (Thoth only, though). They've never misled me, always given answers, they counsel rather than just divine, offering advice, genuine alternatives. I would never undertake any great work (or minor work) without first performing a Tarot divination. If the tarot indicates lack of success, I modify my formula, try again. Of course there are no yes/no answers in the tarot.

For instance, I formulated the creation of a very ambitious servitor. The Tarot, on three consecutive reads gave me FUTILITY (Seven of Swords) on the outcome card. Combined with the ADVICE card in my spreads, I modified my construct, gave him a humbler "mission", read again, and the results were overwhelmingly positive (WEALTH Ten of Discs). AND -- that servitor became one of my best performers!

But the bottom line, the visual archetypes in a good deck, the thousands of symbols in a Thoth deck in particular, connect almost directly to the subconscious. Short of active visualizing and scrying, what else can do that? Since I'm Chaos-oriented, I'm all about connected to the awesome and unlimited power of the sub and the Deep Mind. And I want "advice" from my deck, too.

But, having said that, I don't use I Ching much, so I couldn't vote any other way. It might be awesome, but I don't have enough experience to know.

I agree with you on the tarot, and particularly the Thoth, as a medium for advice and getting different perspectives on any given set of circumstances. Still, I think it is telling that Crowley himself was a big advocate of the I Ching. I'm not keen on his own "translation" (another example of the more objectionable "poetry" that litters his works), but I tend to agree with his idea that the I Ching often cuts through a lot of the ambiguity that one can get in a tarot reading. I think it is in Magick in Theory and Practice that he discusses the different divination systems and I seem to recall that he himself used the I Ching almost daily for purely practical advice as opposed to the broader scope of the tarot.

I have found it can be excellent for that kind of enquiry. I recall an instance when I first started using it and was supposed to be going out to an event. There were several political and personal reasons why attendance was essentially a good idea, but I had gotten in from a nightmare day at work and had neither the energy nor the inclination to haul my ass down there. I decided to see what the I Ching had to say on the matter:

"It is good to have places to go. It is good to have people to see."

That is the kind of no BS divinatory result I like!

Incidentally...a friend of mine spent yesterday at a trade show and apparently they are launcing a new version of the Thoth tarot that is even bigger than the current large one! I know I am going to end up getting one.

Yep.



Very true.

The tarot is not one for those who tend to think alot, either with or almost with enough *think* as a Gemini would. Me being one, the tarot, no offense, sent me into an overinclusive schizoid thinking pattern, since I was not given a good direction of where to go. Example:

Tarot says "fool" card concerning things ahead.
"Wait, Concerning what?"
*insert card here*
"But how?"
*insert card here*
"And that says what?!"

Also, I got a bad experience because alot of my pagan friends ended up leading me on with different things with the whole, "Well, what do you think?" routine, back when I was rising Icarus style. That is a HUGE no-no. Ya don't do that to a budding mystic! Wrong! If ya know the answer, tell them, because they are impressionable at that moment in their spiritual development!

For this reason, I hated the tarot. With a passion. Even if the tarot was right, the fact that I had trusted people that used it to guide me, misguide me, said enough: The tarot can tell you whatever, but it can't help you look inside someone to see what makes them tick. I said it in this sense because If they knew, they indeed could have handleed it differently. Now, I'm not shedding blame, but solving a solution goes both ways. If a wheel cant move, tend to it (dont be a smartZss and say replace it, abstractly is irreplaceable in this instance!). If only I had been given guidance in a form I could understand, I would not be in even HALF the mess I am in now!!

I hate the tarot. BURNING hate of it.

Don't bother responding to this, I just wanted to put my words-worth in. It's more or less just to ruminate on. Food for thought and all that. Take care.

.lol. Maybe it dosen't like you.

The Yi-Cing employs the same visual effect the Tarot does each heagram has its subconsious meaning, just because it isn't as colourful dosen't mean it isn't it isn't as symbolic. Would be cool to apply the Yi-Ching to the Tree of life although in that case I'd prefer the Tarot.

would be cool to have Lady Harris (back from the dead) paint the traditional scenes for each hexagram . . . I guess under the direction of Lao Tzu (back from the celestial garden, I guess)

Mezu . . . have you ever seen any (Thoth comparable) paintings of the traditional I Ching images in your Tao "travels"? . . . any suggestion of good asian/taoist artist ?

This post has been edited by palindroem: Feb 7 2007, 05:16 PM

Both are very good methods in their own right. I'm partial to the Tarot, and it's imagery, also it's many other uses.

I use and respect both, although I find the Tarot much more convenient and better suited to a detailed reading. A proper Yi-Ching divination with sticks is time-consuming but is worthwhile when the "big picture" is needed.

Yi-Ching by far. I feel it somehow more divine, it is like a personal master for me, but it is true - or at least I think so - that the Tarot can be used for a lot more things.

I've only ever really dabbled in the I Ching, but in comparison with the Tarot (which I've begun recently learning more seriously, I plan to move onto other forms like astrology later) the answers are more clear and I less confusing. I also find it more relaxing and enjoyable to perform.

One thing I've noticed about Tarot, though, is that ever since I've been studying it seriously, my psychic abilities have increased. It's as if the cards opened some kind of door in my subconscious because now my telepathic and psychic abilities just flow more easily to me. I find my dreams prophesy more and I get senses of what will happen in the future. Even more interesting, if I mentally think "I want to know what will happen today" etc, I will get a "sense" of it...

I totally agree, LIam. The Tarot is like an "on switch" for the mind. Like strapping a can of nitreous on the old noggin. (car metaphor, not drugs). Tarot is the best tool, bar none, for meditation, psychic development and archetypal empowerment. Bar none. Right on.

I suspect it must have something to do with the pretty pictures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

I haven't cast spells with the Tarot yet, but it does seem like an interest prospect.

I wa watching a video on 2012 and it mentions that the Yi-Ching is one of the methods used to discover the end time so can be called. But i think that the Yi-Ching is used to much in the modern day world for greedy ivestors and such it has lost its true meaning but if used right could be an amazing tool for divination. But then again tarot cards are also really well used it all depends on the practioner and your best method of what works. So good luck to you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Laie_58.gif)

I don't use either one. If i did use one, I think I Ching would probably suit me better. But really I don't see any need to get into divination methods.

I'm much more focused on forging a destiny, rather than sitting wondering what 'fate' thinks about it.
For now, there is only one question about the future which really burns in my heart. And I already know the answer to it. And I don't foresee any other questions becoming all that important. So the whole divination aspect of the occult doesn't greatly interest me.

Greetings Dark Knight,


I agree. The best thing about the Yi-ching is it's inherent ability to eliminate the "subconscious Bull ^%$# yourself factor," that so many people do without realizing it. I believe the less intervention on the "fall" or "lay-out" of the cards or what have you, the better. I also find my self contemplating the situation in question on much deeper levels than I ever did with the tarot.

Im learning the tarot but am waiting on my i ching (book of changes) to arrive in the mail. I'll be learning it useing the yarrow stalks not the coins .At the moment the tarot seems to very reliable but i hear good things about the i ching and I cant wait to get aquainted with it.

Definitely Tarot. Maybe I vote like this 'cause I usually use it, but that makes me even more sure about Tarot. Why? Because I use it over 2 years and it never failed. IMO it's more useful also 'cause might be used to many things, not only divination. But if I was in a hurry, I would use I-Ching 'cause it's simpler and faster.