Ave

The famous magickal son of Crowley, Frater Achad, raised his child catholic and was a devout catholic, because: Thelema is Christianity. When you speak of the magical tradition, it is not a pagan one, it is one within Christendom, and most of the time, the legends extend from within the Church and it's clergy, some rumors even circulating about the Cardinals, and I know I've personally heard tale of St. John Paul II performing grand theurgy. There is no line between Prayer, Gifts of the Spirit, and Magic, just on the elaboration of technique and it's complexity.

Ad Scientiam

Jack, you've been given some great advice and info here, I hope you see it better now.

The problem is that although many higher members of the Roman Church know the truth, they do not give out the info.
I was somewhat like you at 17.

Society has been starved of it's true spirituality.

There are dangers in magick, it's true, but not as common as one would think,
and personally I was more damaged by my strict Christian parents who were unbalanced about their religion
and about human nature, than I've ever been by magick.

Actually, Thelema is (acording to Thelemites) the Religion of the new Aeon.
Christianity belongs to the former one.

When it comes to Theurgy and even Hermetesism it is most definetly Pagan in origin.
Theurgy was practised before Christianity as was Hermetisism (original Hermetesism was Theurgy, Alchemy and Astrology. Kabbala and all the other stuff was Synchretized in to it later).

Emperor Julian of Rome practiced (Pagan) Theurgy.

As far as who in the GD was Catholic or not there´s still a Papal rule that Catholics can not join Masontype fraterneties so i´m doubtful.
I know some converted AFTER being active members though (and Alan Bennet became a Budhist monk).

However, many of the old famous Magicians, John Dee and the gang mentioned above cetainly where Christian and in many cases Catholic. Honorius was even a bishop.

There are a whole bunch of Christian Magicians out there and after all, it´s what your motivation is that matters, not if any would be Satanist uses the same Rituals (i know of a Swedish group of Satanists using a picture of Mary on their altar so...).

When it comes to Afro / Caribean Religions they generally use Catholic pictures of Saints and other paraphernalia to MASK their Religion. In other words St: Lazarus is Legba, Sta: Barbara is Chango´and so on.

Umbanda from Brazil is the only exeption that springs to mind.

I agree ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Christians DO practice magick (They call it "prayer".)


Personally speaking, I try to avoid any contact with lower/negative energies. I begin my rituals by calling upon St. Michael the Archangel to cleanse and protect me.

This existence is vast. There is so much to all of this. Where we are. When you consider just our existence. Just our ability to communicate and to have a moment of shared joy, of true communion and understanding with one another. We can already begin to see true magick. We can truly begin to see god. God and all that it is which includes us and this physical universe and atoms and suns and children and stars and motorbikes and lovers and ideas and beliefs and imaginations and the thoughts they produce; all of this "god" is an immensely complex organism of which we are a part. And we ourselves when we observe are intensely complex physically. and even more so mentally and emotionally and spiritually.

To want desperately for god to work through you is a dangerously inhibiting desire. Especially since it is based on the delusion that god does not already. God is constantly at work through you. Magick, it could be said, is firstly about increasing your level of consciousness of what ways god works through you; and secondly, about taking an increasing amount of responsibility, and becoming an increasingly active participant in directing the outcomes and effects of gods work through you.

For you magick to truly be "gods" work, you must start from a solid foundation. The type of person who can not control them self in a normal social situation, who is short tempered, who cannot keep every promise they ever make, no matter how small or large, who is the sort of person who makes consciously poor decisions out of laziness or greed or desire, or who thinks i wont think about it now, it will all sort itself out; how can this person say that they can handle the responsibility of sharing gods burden (which is in effect what practicing magick is - sharing some of gods work), how can he say that he will do just as well as god would have?

Maybe one of the effects of practicing magick will be that you develop control in these areas that you previously lacked. Many who do find that this is the case. May do not, and only serve to injure themselves and others. The bivle as has been mentioned, whether you choose to take it literally or not is a well spring of guidance on all matters spiritual. Even in regards to magick. The fundamental lessons apply in all areas of life, even magick. Judge not lest though shalt be judged is a great one. Magick may give you the power to strike. But it in turn will give you the power to heal. How do you think jesus will judge you when you say to him "yes i practiced magick, but when he injured me jesus, i did not strike him down with curses and spells, but i healed him with the help of my fathers power". It is not for me to answer this question for you. But for you. I know people who when faced with similar questions, who have contemplated them deeply have discovered that for themselves, there was some inner voice which told them that there was no way they should practice magick bo matter how much good they could do with it, and for others deep down inside it really was alright for them. The strange thing is that at times it really does appear as if god has made different sets of rules for different people - you might call this karma.

There are roman catholic priests who have used the power of their positions to abuse children in horrendous ways. There are others who have done so much good. Some should not have been priests. Some should have been popes!!! Deep down we know when we are doing what is wrong for us. Dont do wrong for you. Sometimes unfortunately we have to try something first to discover that it is wrong for us. But isnt this just our life. A series of trying and tasting, and rejecting the things that are wrong, and repeating the things that are right, until they become wrong too and something else right comes to replace them.

God is already at work in you. Very powerfully. You cannot ever increase the power by which god is at work through you. You can only become more aware of it, and occasionally god may allow you to take the reigns for a time!!!!!

I thought that was great.

93!



Wuuuuhhhh. That is an argument I often heard in the OTO between the xtian and pagan fractions.

The statement is not 100% true. We worship Nuit, Hadit and RaHoorKhuit, and a lot of other egyptian derived godforms and also godforms from Sumer, chaldaeic gods, yezidic gods etc etc. Sure there is a part that deals with christian, gnostic and rosicrucian elements. But calling Thelema Xtianity is not justified. Thelema is a metareligion, like Budhism, and most of the people work in a more or less pagan surrounding although they include some judaeochristian elements. So it is OK to call us pagan, but also OK if you call us gnostic judaeochristian mystics. Aslong we are not called satanists call us what you want (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

93-93/93
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I'd suggest some of the older grimoires and some High magick books would help you. They tend to be very soundly rooted in Judeo-Christian thought/belief.

-Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig
-Lesser Keys of Solomon (peterson edition)
-The Sacred Magick of Abramelin The Mage (mathers edition)

Also, don't worry if something seems to be 'evil' or 'wrong' to your point of view in a book. If it talks about something that you do not feel like doing, then do not do it. Now, this isn't permission to just completely skip over stuff that seems tedious, and it shouldn't be taken that way, I just mean that, if it goes against what you feel, them don't have to do it. Also, if it is something that you wish to do, but you feel like it will go against your beliefs or whatever, then you can just modify it to suit your beliefs.

A quick reference for you:
I have a friend who is a Christian, yet practices magick and invokes/calls forth energies from different deities other than Christ/God. I asked her how she justified doing this b/c it seemed to me, at the time, that it was going directly against it. She and I had a long discussion about it and I was amazed at how she justified it. She basically said that, if there was a "One and Only God" and if he was, like Jesus on earth (supposedly), a kind and benevolent ruler, then he would not punish her for helping others and herself with whatever means were available to her. In this case, the wasy she brought about healing and growth was magick. What it basically boiled down to was this great quote of hers that became kinda her own personal mantra: "If Jesus was around and saw what I was doing magick, I bet he'd be content in seeing that I was helping others."

Don't know if that helped at all. I hope it did. Goodluck on your journey and enjoy yourself along the way.

P.S.
Btw, for your own information, I have many friends who not only practice their faith in God, but magick too; you're not alone.

I mean wow. I just came back to this site, (there's that cycle I was talking about at work,) and see the thread I began still on the first page. There's so much good information and advice here I don't really know where to begin. I don't even know if I should. Suffice it to say I found Extinctionspasm's contribution the most inspiring. I just feel like I have a few blocks that kind of re-direct my energy into things that shouldn't be receiving energy. That's why I intimated that I wanted God to work through me. That and I have no problem whatsoever in being some kind of instrument of His will.

I do need to become more aware of that power that seems to lie dormant in all of us.

I really do appreciate everything that's been written here. I am exhausted right now however, and need to reboot. Tomorrow I think I will be able to respond to those posts I found particularly helpful!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif):D