Has anyone worked with Incan,Mayan or Aztec Gods and what were the results?
I write this motivated by last nights intense dream.

This post has been edited by Ra Hoor Khuit: Feb 21 2007, 03:20 AM

I'd also like to know about this. I'm mexican, so it interests me to know how one could go about working with those Gods. I've not actually met anyone (that I believe is telling the truth) here in mexico that has actually worked with those deities.

I guess I'd like to know how it was done by the mexican shamans. Did they stare at a statue of the deity they wanted to contact or did they use a mantra, etc. Basically I'd like to know how to do it in a modern way, like maybe sigilizing a name somehow.

I can't give either of you experience, all I know is that theres probably many deities to choose from. [around 200 mayan ones alone, counting both sexes and both underworld and earthly faces] You also probably know they had many levels of heaven and hell. [at least the Mayans did] Maybe you should look for some on wikipedia or some such. [certainly not a good only source, but a nice place to start, I think]

That's my two cents. All that basic info you can learn in social studies though. [that's where I learned it. we did a pretty poster about the basic things the Mayans beleved] Never personally worked with them though. Always more into Celtic and Egyptain goddess' myself. Hope that was helpful in some way.

You did not understand my question.Getting information on gods and methods of evocation is not a problem.What I wanted to know is someones direct experience with them.

Why are you interested in Incan, Mayan, and Aztec (Mexicatl) gods? Im heading out to Mexico City (Tenochtitlan) tommorow...a higher power willing...I was thinking of getting a cleansing. Anyhow, the people that carry these things out, still follow the old ways. They dress in mexicatl regalia, dance in town square, burn copal incence, heal, some speak Nahuatl...etc. Something like the Native Americans of the U.S., you know, the Navajo, Hopi, Humpapa etc. Perhaps I can ask a few questions. Theres some I have of my own. Where are you thinking of getting your information as far as invocation is concerned? Dont you think invocation in the orignal Nahuatl would be more powerfull? Keep in mind the ancients took these gods really serious (human sacrifice), and theyre probably pretty powerfull. Who knows? I hope this was of some help although I didnt really answer your question...be patient.

This post has been edited by ASH007: May 24 2007, 10:55 AM

Just ran into this site, check it out:http://www.amoxtli.org/cuezali/nahualli.html

I think I saw that site once.Thanks again for the link.In the mean time I devised some methods of working with the Aztec and Mayan Gods,I just need to complete them and try them out.

Let me know how that works out, sounds quite fascinating. Im wondering if youll need to be familiar with the Mexicatl (Aztec) and/or Mayan astrology...you know...horoscopes and astral calendar. Theres a book out there called "The Mayan Factor" (heard of it?) it goes into the mayan concept of time, there math system, and some astral stuff. If you ever get into Mexica historical-fiction novels, check out "Aztec" by Gary Jennings. Its kinda like a chronicle that continues with "Aztec Autumm", and ends with "Aztec Blood". Other than that...I got some general books I was able to get a hold of...the thing is...there in spanish. By the way...do you think that invoking and/or casting any sort of spell would be a bit more powerful in nahuatl, the language of the Mexicatl (Aztecs)? By the way...what gods are you thinking of working with? (just curious)

I am familiar with their astrology,currently I am exploring their pictorial script for use in sigils.I think that invocations would be more powerful in nahuatl but I dont know whether a dictionary exists (so I can translate my invocations),if there is a nahuatl to English dictionary out there let me know.Gods certainly understand any language but the effort of invoking in nahuatl is very likely to be taken as a sign of respect.I check the site you gave me again,it is great (I read all of it).Gave me a lot of directions.I especially liked the guys writings on blood,and Aztec tradition vs wicca and neopaganism.I plan on working with Ahpuch and Tlacolotl.I will let you know of my results when I complete the preparation and carry them out fully.Not many people are interested in Aztec and Mayan Gods,probably too bloody for most.

This post has been edited by Ra Hoor Khuit: Jun 8 2007, 04:07 AM

Cualli teotlal-tzintli (Good Afternoon),

Heres a link providing an english/spanish to nahuatl dictionary, its a pdf file:http://www.mexicauprising.net/Nahuatl%2Bdictionary.pdf

I will continue to look for the link on learning nahuatl (I got it here somewhere). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif)

Thanks the dictionary will be of great use.If you have any other links on rituals or customs of Aztecs and Mayans please post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cualli tonal-tzintli (Good morning),

According to some Ah-puch (Mayan) would be the equivalent of Mictlantecuhtli (Aztec...Mexica). Gods of the underworld. In fact some people to this day here in Mexico practise some kind of Santeria and invoke "La Santa Muerte (the blessed death)" which is probably some deep rooted belief in these two far from forgotten deities. Im sometimes surprised to see that some old traditions are still alive and well but under some different name or disguise. The old Aztec (Mexica) gods have been substituted for the catholic saints. Xochiquetzal has been substituted for "Virgin of Guadalupe" and so on. Any how here are some links:

This one has some kind of humor two it. Makes the conection between Ah-puch and Mictlantecutli:http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/mayan-mythology.php?deity=AH-PUCH&ds=N

The following are about about "La Santa Muerte (The Blessed Death...Saint Death...Ah-puch?...Mictlantecutli?...):1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte 2)http://ojinaga.com/store/curanderos/flaca.html 3)http://www.geocities.com/mabcosmic/essays/muerte.html

I hope these links help. These last three regarding "Blessed Death" have really nothing to do with what you are doing, but I thought they would make for an interesting read.

Here are some nahuatl links:1)http://oz.plymouth.edu/~wjt/Nahuatl/nahuatl.html 2)http://www.ariolic.com/memler/learn-nahuatl.html

I read the following...nanmo-pan nic-tlalia no-nemiliz...it roughly translates as "I lay upon you, my hopes, and my life."

This post has been edited by ASH007: Jun 9 2007, 10:50 AM

Gods were changed to christian saints just like in any other place christianity came.Unfortunately for all those places.I know about Ahpuch and Mictlantecuhtli being extremely similar.I researched Aztec
and Mayan mythology quite well.I have difficulty finding informations on Tlacolotl.

Tell me about Tlacolotl hiding somewhere amongst the books... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/book.gif) I will keep my eyes peeled for any kind of information on this deity (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shok.gif) Here are a few more links on nahuatl:
1) english to nahuatl:http://aulex.ohui.net/en-nah/?idioma=en
2) spanish to nahuatl:http://aulex.ohui.net/es-nah/?idioma=en

I personally think the spanish one is a bit better. It has more listings than the english one. Oh, and your definitely right. Christianity seemed to take over whatever religion was in place at any given country. They even imposed their Gregorian calendar. Speaking of time and heres another link:http://www.greatdreams.com/mayan_database.htm

I just finished reading the article "Change from Mechanical to Natural Time", its an interesting read. I guess the understanding of their astroloy, and concept of time go hand in hand. I apologize If I rambler on about this and contribute nothing to what your currently working on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/victory.gif)
Tlazocamati

This is what I found on Tlacolotl.
Mayan god of evil,villains and evildoers.Usually represented as a horned owl (or a man with head of an owl).
And I found this reference to god Tlacolotl.

ITZLACOHUIHQUI- "Curved Obsidian Knife" "God of Frost"

Spelling may also be Itzlacoliuhqui. Also considered as a god of obstinacy and blindness. This deity was worshipped in accordance with certain maize rites and public rituals. Spelling may be Itztlacoliuhqui. Also worshipped and revered as the "God of Cold". Depicted as a faceless being with a large curved knife blade, serrated, protruding from his head.

In the Codex Cospiano, this deity is depicted making an offering to the forces of darkness in front of a temple(*52). In the temple sits Tlacolotl, the horned owl, and representation of the deepest evil to the Mexica.

If you come upon any new information on Tlacolotl please let me know.

Thanks for the links.Yes christianity unfortunately obliterated all local religions wherever they appeared.
Mayans were expert astrologers that is sure.On the contrary,you contribute to my research (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Since we are about the only people here interested in this
we could switch this conversation on email or messenger.PM me if you are ok with that idea.

Ah-puch and Tlacolotl remind me of Mictlantecutli and Tezcatlipoca respectively. Im probably not as versed as you but from what Im seeing...there is definately a connection. Why the dark forces? Why not Quetzalcoatl...Mayan Kukulkan? I venture to think that because these deities were the protectors of shamans, magic, and witchcraft...and we find ourselves within an amazing site on the esoteric...well it makes sense. Oh, before I forget...heres another link to a site I ran into...it links Tezcatlipoca to left-hand path. It has some invocations...nahuatl with english equivalent. We must keep in mind that nahuatl is very much a metaphoric language, anyhow here is the link:
http://apodion.com/vad/article.php?aid=138

You mentioned something about the owl being conected to evil. The belief still exists till this day here in Mexico, at least from were Im typing this from. The saying goes "when the owl cries/sings the indian dies." People beleave that if an owl rests on a tree branch near your home and begins to hoot, someone you know will die. Another belief is, if dogs around your home are howling, they are seeing and warning of the presence of death (mictlantecutli...saint death...the gream reaper...azrael).

Since the Maya and Mexica were so close to each other. Neighboring peoples...its not difficult to see the connection in many of their belief systems.

About the PM. Sounds like a great idea. It certainly seems like we are the only ones interested in this sort of thing...the Mexica and Maya pantheon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why dark forces-well I pick Gods to work with according to the "attraction" I get from them.Greatest attraction so far I got from Tlacolotl,Ahpuch and Tezcatlipoca.And darkness is part of the universe which also must be known.If my experiments go well,
I will work with other Gods as well,although from what I read on that guys site it seems that Aztec and Mayan Gods cannot be strictly divided in light and darkess,even "positive" Gods often
have violent nature in some aspects.Gods have complex personalities just like humans,even more complex most probably.So labeling them light or dark in the strict sense of the
word is not entirely correct in my opinion.Owl is a symbol of evil for many civilizations in the world,not just Aztec and Mayan.We will continue on pm but maybe someone appears in here some day.

Just a quick reply. Your definetly right about the strict division of the gods into a saintly pile and a wicked pile...black and white. I made that distinction so as to simplify my question. Darkness and Light played a central role in the belief system of the ancients. I think this is where the Mexica "Ometeotl" (Im not sure what the Mayans called it)...was the supreme concept of creation. Since nahuatl is a metaphoric language...whe can go on to suspect that since "ome" means two, and "teot"l means god...then "Ometeotl" can be loosely translated as: duality, two force, two sided God, God of duality...who knows? Kinda like a Ying and Yang thing. So I agree with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I 'm glad there is more people hetre who had worked with al mesoamerican-south american deities.... my grand father used to work with incan deities or more exact muiscaya and chibcha/cauca-tulue spirits, this are the colombian deities before christianity got there.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/respect.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

I haven't dealt with them personally, but I've heard that if you come in contact with mesoamerican deities (Inca gods/goddesses as well but to a lesser extent) you should be careful. In general they are short on time. Everything must happen at an appointed time. If you call upon them unexpectedly (or later/sooner than you planned to) then you'll have a hard time getting them to cooperate.

Hope this helps.

and another thinga spirit of maya are not just gods, they are what you are looking for, for example, tlaloc its not just the rain god, he is the actual storms thunder and rain..........

In Palo Mexica, there are several ways through which we may not only communicate with the aztec gods, but also harness much of their power for different purposes. The first way is to set up an altar in the name of the aztec god of your choice. Things like candles with the colors pertaining to your patron god, offerings in the form of food, copal. The second way in which we may communicate or commune with the aztec powers is to shamanic journey directly to them. You could visit the underworld gods and spirits in Mictlan or Tlalocan or various celestial regions depending on what you're looking for.

Next, if you want to actively worship the aztec gods or work with them, simply follow the aztec calendar, or the 260 day divinatory calendar. Each day has a confluence of several aztec gods that govern over our existence. By observing the day (seehttp://azteccalendar.com) we may begin to recognize comment traits of each of the aztec gods and you will come to know them intimately through practicing aztec calendar magick. One way that we may use to communicate with the gods is of course divination. I use maya tzite seed divination in lots of four beans per bundle read across from left to right in rows and columns. There is also an older Mexica tradition of divination that uses knotted ropes and maize seeds cast in lots, of which I know very little about.

Yours in the struggle,
--Teopiltzin