well Ive done another evocation tonight of Mepsitahl. and I did the full LBRP and hexegram and I used the goetia evocation. the full lot. and the most I get is a brief flash of her from a recollection I had of another time I did it and was messing around and got full view of her., beyond the mirror just after the evocation when the energy is strong after that i see no sign of her. and then I hear laughing? what gives ? ( and this happens everytime I do an evocation regardless of spirit) and then I hear like voices like someone having a conversation in the background but I cant make any sense of it. (I could be trying to hard to hear something and I do that to help manifest a voice. and then just random stuff happens in my mirror like normal scrying and there is no communication. I dont know if that is anough to say the welcome and I cant even check the identity. Is it because she is a fictional spirit? Im pretty new. only a couple years so does anyone have any advice I can try for next time? any help would be much apprecated. thank you

I think that maybe you are managing to perceive into the astral, but you're attracting the wrong spirit(s). It takes a lot of energy, in my experience, to make contact with the correct spirit. I wouldn't trust any spirit that shows up too easily. Question it a lot and don't worry about being a little harsh in threatening it to tell you it's true name. It usually takes a few days, again in my experience, to get a spirit to notice me, and know that I want to evoke it. If you do it too quickly without much preparation (I don't mean so much about the tools, I mean more about meditating or scrying the seal of the spirit for a few days before the evocation at least, and telling it what your requests or questions will be) most likely you'll get some lower-level spirit bugging you, telling you it's the real deal, then making promises it won't keep. That happens to everyone. When you start getting results, then you'll know you succeeded.

Of course, it could all be your imagination creating the visions and voices, but like I said, when you get results (asking for something and then getting it) you know you're doing something right.

Good luck.

thank you altpath. I know what you mean. but how can you even question a spirit on its identity when its not making clear communication to you. I do seem to get responses sometimes but they are pretty obscure and there isnt really a conversation like talking to it. well im going to do this everynight for a couple weeks. no really. and see if i cant get anything more intellegable
she will definatly hear me than.
I will just record any impression and visions and hopefully it will start to get clearer the more I keep at it.
what are these entities though. they seem like mistrif makers. If they have a sense of hummur thay must be pretty intellegent.
but it seems when you tell them to do something they ingnore you, kind of like kids.

okay I will make another post when I make some progress. peace

Perhaps you could try it without the mirror.

Are you using the triangle and circle? Did you perform the invocation of the bornless fire before the evocation?

Most times I found I can get no more than a seething black mass inside the triangle (physical), that's after 2 or 3 hours - it takes a long time (but it doesn't feel long when you're actually doing it). How I do this is the preliminary evocation from the goetia around 5 times, each time followed by my own evocation that I make up on the spot, then followed by the secondary evocation if necessary with my own evocation after each, etc - you need to yield yourself to the words and not just read them dryly, it's like sex. Vibrating the names of the circle and triangle after the invocation of the bornless fire seems to work quite well, too.

I think you need to get a better hold on manifesting the spirit first before attempting communication, if the spirit is clear to you then naturally it's much easier to ask of it to speak intelligibly and clearly.

You may find it helpful to meditate a half hour before the ritual, or you could see how your sexual energies influence the ritual by abstaining for a week, or you could try it after smoking cannabis, or you could try performing the ritual while deprived of sleep, there's loads of different things you can try - experiment and see how these states of consciousness effect, perhaps enhance, your work.

Tell us how it goes!

This post has been edited by Zugzwang: May 22 2007, 06:32 AM

I did another evocation tonight. this time I actually got abit better results. still not what I wanted but getting there. it seems that befor the ritual had even began I can sense she was with me. I did the ritual LBRP quickly amd that was it. wasent in the mood for more.

and I stared at the sigil said the evocation but i couldnt finish it because I have forgotten(its been a whille) so I made up one and chucked in some god names for good measure and when I was scrying I actually started to have better visions and did see what resembles the spirits apperence. if this is my imagination or an actually manifestation i am not sure.
I could here faintly some words like Yes I am here, (I was repeatedly asking are you there in my head) actually at first it sounded like a male voice. audio scrying is a whole new thing for me.
I tried to do it with my eyes closed but it didnt work. i wasnt visualizing spontaniosly like I do when I scry. my triangle , I feel has so much power and I dont know how I could do an evocation without it. the mixture of smoke and candles and triangle really put me into a trance and I was just sitting there stairing.

I do feel like there was a presence. I think My astral hearing needs some work. but still not getting into a conversation. although I sense she is very wise and has a high rank spiritualy I only wish I could have talked with her.

now IM starting to believe. I think from now it will only get stronger. plus all the other experience with this entity. kind of built my feel for her. and next time I will take a book with me jsut incase. dont want to get my hopes up to much.

the last thing to prove to myself that evocation is real is a meaningfull conversation
what you were saying before Zugzwang. I dont think its really how much you say and how well you recite the evocation as much as how much of a trance you are in at the time. I guess I see things more from a seer point of view.
wow 2 or 3 hours with about 5 evocations. that really ful on Zugzwang. I think I will do the 1 hour for everyday for a few weeks meathod
thank you everyone for your advice please give me some advice on a way to hear better and train my astral hearing if you have any exersises
. sorry about the long as post.
I will keep you all updated

This post has been edited by M1rrOR/TRiX: May 22 2007, 09:29 AM

well its been 5 days now. What I have learned is not to do the banishing ritual. and just leave it open. I found this out by accident when I did half the evocation and got to tired to finish the rest. 2 hours later I was just in my room. doing normal stuff and I herd a female voice comes in my head. read that she says. I pick up a book and flip to a page and its the banishing rituals. and it was like I was being guided to study more new age stuff. Like she wanted me to learn more. didnt think she was much interested it rituals though. when I left the circle and didnt close i had a bad feeling about it. like something was waiting. or the feeling of leaving without finishing. that night the same figure came into my dreams. and when I heard the voices I thought I was going crazy. I was forcing myself not to listen thinking. this could make me go mad. I could end up in a mental ward

well some spontanios moving objrcts have occured in the corner of my eye. and when I got pissed at my friend the wall made knoking noices. this happens alot when I am stressed and caght of guird like its a protection mechanism and there are knock sounds in the wall if i feel i am in danger. didnt know but your aura extends pretty far.

I wont bother to write anymore since noone is reading this than there is no point if there is no interest.
were your focus goes your energy goes. just something I picked up.

M1rrOR/TRiX,

Keep posting, it's interesting to hear your experiences.

Not banishing is one of those things that I've found can be helpful, but at the same time dangerous and foolish. It depends on the spirit, and the situation.

The best way to get the attention of a spirit if you're a beginner(and to get into the proper state of mind) is to do what you've been doing. Doing the nightly or daily evocations is a good thing to get stronger with your skills. I've done it to get better manifestations, and it works.

Hearing those voices could be her, but at the same time it could be other spirits you've attracted through from "the other side". I know that sounds corny, but it's true. You open a gateway when you evoke something, so if you don't banish, you run the risk of not sending back all those other spirits. I suggest you try some formal license to depart of all the present spirits, except mepsitahl. Try bell ringing to get rid of those lower astral life forms. I don't believe it's as easy as ringing a bell to get rid of something more powerful, like a demon, but it does help. It should alleviate the problem of hearing voices, but not totally get rid of what you want to keep around.

Seeing things moving in the corner of your eyes is normal, and common after a working, or after raising energy to your third eye. Don't worry about it too much.

Some people might think it's bad advice for me to say "keep going", but hey, there are many people that are afraid to try new things or test their limits. I like to do both, even if it puts me in danger. Just know that the consequences of doing these things is that, yes, you could end up in a mental institution. That's your choice though, and it's up to you to stay sane.

Good luck, keep writing, and I'll post whenever I think you need advice.

thank you thank you thank you altpath (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
you post means alot to me
I tried last night aswell. since IM very interested in ESP I would really like to evoke this perticular entity so Im putting alot of time and effort into it. she is a lucky spirit getting all my attention.
when i was scrying I was trying to figure out how to know what spirirt is what. how to lock on to that perticular essence so to speak. and it came to me that I have to narrow my scrying skill to be able to . how can i say. you have to take the scrying to a level were you can sence very fine signatures and be able to focus your intent on it to a high degree.

another thing I was thinking is and am always thinking is. how do I know its not just my imagination. and at this point I cannot. but I can say that being in that frame of mind is more conductive to recieve impressions from that certin spirit.
like if you imagine the spirit so much you will probley actualy evoke that spirit.
some part of our mind has accses to the information and can experience beyond time and beyond space. and can know without external influience and recieve information.

so for begginers I think If you have the will there will be a way.
depends how far you are willing to go.

I see the vision much clearer now. its like when the clouds come whatever your thinking and your feelings will show up in the mirror.
much like your dreams.
but I hear nothing! I only recieve from. well. asking and waiting for myself to answer. but not thinking of the answer and letting my mind answer. I dont think this is evocation but I may be a step in the right direction.

do you have any hints into how I can improve the hearing side of things. I got 1 exersise from summoning spirits by constantine and thats it.
for now I will try to build the mental picture more. and try to see anything different.
and I will definatly continue to post on my experements.

This post has been edited by M1rrOR/TRiX: May 26 2007, 05:17 AM

one thing I would like to add. and I beleive this to be true. have to ask someone more experienced to know for sure but from what I know.
If you preform an evocation, and there was no manifestation. and you thought it was a falure. the spirit can still have influence over you . so if you were working with chokmah, you might notice that you are thinking more wisely, during and alittle after the evocation.
and this can have a profound impact on you. chokmah is a very spirital and turn the everyday things into divine
and also I have experienced were I did an evocation with no manifestation and have actually gotten what I wanted.
this is good news for a newbe if it is the case
sometime they will come later in your dreams or play a small role in it.
perhaps I did infact evoke the entity but my psychic perseption wasnt anough to relise it.
out of all the magical operation evocation has g ot to be the hardest. but ultimatly the most fullfilling. it calls forth all diffferent skill and you have to use them together. but it is pretty dawm hard. 2 years and I have just started getting some positive results.

okay I did have a rather good experience this time round and I know now that
the voice that is internal in your head is nowere like hearing it external. external in not from you.
because when you hear it there is no mistaking it!
I am making good progress with doing it daily. like I said. you could ignore me or we could get down to business.
it is a mutual thing because there knowledge they want you to know. it is in there nature. its there purpose and there reson for being so why wouldnt they want to share it. thats just my understanding of it anyway

This post has been edited by M1rrOR/TRiX: May 26 2007, 09:57 AM

M1rrOR/TRiX,

I understand what you mean about your troubles with not knowing if you're talking to the right spirit. It's difficult to know for sure anything, you just have to trust yourself, and the spirit. Some spirits, like some of the goetic demons, are more difficult to summon, and constrain. Angels on the other, like the angels of the days of the week, are easily contacted. Read up on the spirits, and if you see that others easily contact the one you're interested in, then go with that feeling. Generally, other peoples experiences will coincide with yours. I've never worked with mepsitahl, so look for others that have, and compare notes.

The excercises in konstantinos book are taken from other books I think, like cunningham or bardon, so the techniques are good and known to work. I don't practice those things though, so I'm not very good with astral senses. Fasting for a few days, in combination with depriving yourself of sleep can do amazing things for your ability to hear and see spirits. I've fasted and deprived myself of sleep (none at all)for as much as 3 days and the results during an invocation and evocation are amazing. So do those things, as long as it doesn't cause you to get sick (like if you're diabetic, don't do that) and see how it works for you. The more evocations you do, the better your senses will get, and eventually you'll be able to activate them on command.

Doing daily affirmations also works well. Try this everyday, 3 or more times a day, for one month: "I can see and hear spirits at will". Say that to yourself or outloud, and especially during trance meditation as many times as you can remember to do it. That will send the message to your higher self and it will hear it eventually, and switch it on for you. We're like computers, with all the switches set to "off". I did that once but I got out of the habit of doing it, but for awhile I was able to see spirits sometimes, usually spontaniously, but it was working. I'm going to start doing it again soon.

Keep posting!

about no manifestation:

You're right, there's no reason to have a visible appearance if you get what you want. Some spirits though, like goetics, tend to be very unstable if you can't see them. They get frustrated, IMO, if you can't see or hear them and they start to really mess with you. I tend to try to put myself into a very positive state of mind, because chances are, I won't see or hear a spirit, but I still know that they are listening and that I can be their worst enemy if they don't do what I ask. That's with demons, anyway. So be confident about the whole thing, and don't leave your circle without banishing first if you are working with a demon!

well I tried fasting today. but its to hard. I so feel like eating. its dinner time and IM starving. I have to hold on. I can do it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
need foooooood hahahahahaha

haha, it takes time, and practice. You don't have to go for the full 3 days all at once. Take some time to do it. You could also stop eating just meat. Only eat vegetables. That will get your aura to get stronger, and weaken you just enough to open up your astral senses, without weakening you too much.

it does seem to increase your evocation. like the amount of will or desperation. you put in when reciting the evocations increase.
Im a vegitarian anyway. well most of the time. just for OBE training. and evocation is somewhat of a side project.

so it's going well for you?

Im eating more vegitables in my diet. that has been good. I feel more energetic and lively.
I stopped the evocations a whille ago. the last one was when I just messing around and got out my mirror and sigil.

but I did see something strange. I could see a couple, male and female. embracing in a hug. they were gray and cloudy.
I actually did manage to move a psi wheel under a glass but I cant do it again and am to lazy.

anyway. Im finding it hard to do evokation. there is something not real for me. like im not satisfied without knowing something is real and not my imagination.

but overall.for me its heaps better to do it without a circle or any ceremonies at all. it dosent help unless im in the right state of mind.
and rituals take time and destracts you from focusing.

I have an important question. have you ever used the necronimicon. what if I used those sigils.

Who, me??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I only once used the nec spellbook once, and I didn't get any results. To be honest, most people here use it as a religious system, and although I would like to get into it (since it seems to have many ties to Roman Catholicism, and I was raised Catholic), I have not had time to do it. I'm very much aware of the fact that I, personally, am one of those types who needs to involve themselves 100% in a specific system to obtain massive results, so I admit that if I didn't get results, it's because I wasn't involving myself with the system totally.

The only thing I can say about that is that most people agree that the spirits from the spellbook are benevolent, and safe to call on without a circle, but the ones from the nec are more dangerous, so just think about that.

And like I said before, to get full effect from anything, you have to involve yourself 100%. So I would say you got good results with Mepsitahl, but to be honest, IMHO, a circle is the best way to get results. Not an astral circle, but a physical one. It helps the spirit see you and hear you. In a way it can be considered a form of protection, and to keep the influence away from your mind (even benevolent spirits try to get you to think the way they do), but for the most part I feel it's more of a way to open the veil between your physical and astral world.

Right now, I'm going through the motion of studying every aspect of the LBRP. I stopped performing that ritual a long time ago because of alot of bad things that happened to me that I feel were directly related to my daily practices of it, but now I feel it's essential that I understand every kabbalistic aspect of it, through and through, including the God-names. I'll be scrying the hebrew letters. I'm telling you all this because I think this is essential to get a successful result from anything you do, including evocation.

I hope this info helps (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)