Hey everyone,

I'm almost finished with a hebrew goetic circle I'm making, and I've already checked out all the hebrew names (in english and hebrew, cross referencing with crowleys goetic circle and various online sources) but unfortunately, I can't find a site that actually has the hebrew letter names for metatron. It looks to me like metatron, in crowleys circle, is spelled with a zy-in at the end, but that doesn't make sense to me. So can someone spell out the names for me? I've got mehm-teht-teht-resh-vahv-and of course the zy-in. But like I said, that doesn't sound right to me. Seems to me it should have a nun at the end.

Can somebody be kind enough to clear that up for me? The hebrew fonts on most sites are terrible!

It's mem tet tet resh vau final-nun - it's probably a misprint!

(IMG:http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/e72211ef.jpg)

I had to do the same thing as you so I don't know if my transliteration of the 72 names was 100% accurate, it must be difficult for other folk too - I'll make a thread sometime on this to save other people the trouble and to sort out any mistakes i made.

This post has been edited by Zugzwang: Jul 3 2007, 01:50 PM

A-HA! Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I also was wondering if it's on purpose that crowley used final mehim for several words instead of mehm like Ha-Galgalim is spelled usually like HaGLGLYM in online sources, but it's never specified if the M is a mehm or a mehim, but crowley used final mehim in the circle. Any thoughts on that?

This post has been edited by altpath: Jul 3 2007, 03:07 PM

As you know the final letters are used at the end of sentences, the ring of names isn't a sentence but a list of titles in the order of atziluth, the name of a sephira, briah, yeszirah, then the hebrew name of the planet/zodiac/primum mobile - because these are individual words and not part of a overall sentence (they are separate from each other in the same way the cells in a table are) they should be treated separately, using the final letters makes sense when you look at it this way.

The way to check is to find a table or list written in hebrew to see if they used the finals or not!

This post has been edited by Zugzwang: Jul 4 2007, 09:51 AM

Actually before I started this project, I didn't know anything about hebrew (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But I'm learning a lot, and I appreciate the help. I'm almost finished with the circle, but I've found that the hebrew is too small to go all the way around the circle three times the way it's drawn in the manuscripts and books so I'm just assuming it's like that to simply be an example, and not the way it's really supposed to look. So far, I'm thinking that the names will only go around the circle once and a half times.

I really appreciate the help, you're a life-saver!

Hi altpath, I'm working on my goetic circle aswell, and I've found the same in regards to the hebrew lettering only going round so far. I guess it shouldn't matter as long as the names are there. Instead of using fabric I'm using 2' by 2' rubber jigsaw squares. Didn't realise how much work there is to it until I started.

Loki

I'm not exactly sure why the Hebraic goes three-one half times around save that in the Crowley edition he had a fascination for pulling various other occult influences into different rites to bolster the overall effect. In this case the 3-1/2 times represents the coiling of the Kundalini fire-serpent at rest around the mages sacral center. Another reason for the blatant mis-spellings in Hebrew are also attributed to Crowleys need to have the names resonate to his form of Gematria. This was the origin of Magic(k) spelled with a 'k'!!!
Your Hebrew names and psalms needn't circle you 3-1/2 times but it can be done by broadening the spaces between letters... *sigh* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's actually what I had figured, since it doesn't appear anywhere else and he seemed to love to twist things to mean what he wanted them to mean, but since I have little to no knowledge of the kundalini or eastern traditions or practices, I decided not to include it and go for a more traditional design.

I did actually think about having it wrap around three times, but once I got started, I decided to just do what's most natural to me and ignore that.

So, Bym, would you say it's more effective to use a physical circle, or do you prefer an astral circle?

This is getting offtopic but *sigh* why not?
My suggestion is to use a physical circle if practical. This way, in its construction you 'fix' it into your mental sphere and thereby begin creating it on the astral. If you plan on gaining material results of evocation, etc. then a physical circle will be in order. I can't be too strong in pointing out that a magician needs to construct, in detail, his operating space in the astral. The magician should also have a sanctuary space in the astral/mental planes for a bolt hole to rest and recuperate during times of seige. I could write volumes about this...which may be a good idea so as to not digress from other (this) threads. A physical circle reinforces the circle in the astral. and gives you crib notes you can read from if necessity demands it! If you are operating from a formal temple then the need for a circle isn't as important. Again, this can be thoroughly discussed elsewhere. Sometimes circles are needed to keep things in as well as out. In Wicca, they are oft used to help raise a cone of energy.

The names of various angels and demons can be found in other texts other than Crowley or Mathers. Liber 777 though is still a valuable correspondence table(s). But...certain sources of various different occult orders have played with the spelling of some of these names...either to further their own views of Gematria or for whatever it is convenient for their purposes. Find a good Hebraic thesaurus or scholarly treatise to work with. I have found that a pendulum scrying 'check' of the name/spelling a good backup idea. Your choice, your move, your work!
Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I believe in the peterson edition the manuscript has the 3 and half loop sans snake around the circle but it is in english not hebrew. I am not sure which manuscript he is pulling on and the age.

If crowley/mathers did add the loops you might also want to consider the Golden Dawn Circumambulation technique as the source.

Sorry about that Bym. I'll get back on topic with another relevant question.

There are two different spellings for metatron, one is a 6 letter name, and the other is a 7 letter name. I read that the first represents one version of him (as an angel I think), and the other I'm not sure about.

So does anybody know which is which, and why???

Had the same problem myself! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You always have to make the lettering bigger than you think. Don't think it's much of a problem if it doesn't wrap around the circle 3 times, only thing I wouldn't like is if there was a large, empty gap between the beginning and end of the string of words.


Haven't heard of that, do you know what the extra letter is?

I got the names below from the wiki page on him.

מטטרון or מיטטרון

The only difference is a yud is added, which seems to be incorrect to me. I can't seem to find the page where I read that one name represents one aspect, and the other is another aspect. I guess that just depends on what he has to say about it.