I fail to see the connection between psionics and chakras. You can say that I am a very gifted psion and I do no work with any type of chakras what so ever. Someone explain to me the link. I want to hear other's thoughts on this.

Like I mentioned on another thread, any kind of energy movement in your physical or subtle bodies involves the chakras. Period. it is what they are for, moving energy, storing, and transforming energy. Even physical energy - I am utilizing chakras right now in order to move my body, interpret what I am reading, and formulate a response. I'm using my solar plexus, root, throat, and third eye. On occasion I might use my crown if I am channeling some kind of higher intuition.

I am one who believes that psionics is just a form of energy work. And to me, telepathy, telekinesis, empathy, etc., all comes down to energetic states and the manipulation thereof. I think that people are often unaware of the energy they use to do things, especially if they are naturally gifted with talents - not just psionic or magickal, but any talent in general - because it comes so easy for them it doesn't warrant too much thinking about.

Like in the power chakra thread, you mentioned that you don't have to do any third eye opening/exercise, and I suspect you are not especially aware of any particular sensation around that area? It is probably just naturally in harmony with other centers in your system. You might imagine your body made up of vibrations. A sea of vibration. You chakras are the centers of vibration that cause that sea to vibrate in the first place. They are the pathway that the real you, the energetic being pulling all of the strings, uses to interact with the physical body, to make it alive and doing things, percieving things, thinking things, etc. There are many layers to the subtle body, and each layer uses these energy centers to communicate and utilize the ones below it.

So, it is not a given that you might sense these individual energy centers in your body 'accidentally' that is, without looking for them, even if you didn't know about chakras. I didn't when I first discovered my heart chakra, I just had an experience that caused it some trauma, and my attention was drawn to it, and then eventually to similar kinds of feelings in other places. It wasn't until years later that I learned you could interact with those feelings, and I'm a natural energy worker - I do it like breathing, and I know now which chakras I use to accomplish which tasks, but I wasn't initially aware that I was doing anything other than moving energy just by doing it.

It didn't take a great deal of analysis for me to learn technique, when it came to energy work, but even though I developed my technique to a very fine degree, I didn't realize my chakras played a role. When i became aware of them, and began to develope my consciousness of them, then I understood because I could see and feel way they interacted when i did different kinds of energy work. My techniques all amounted to utilizing different combinations of chakras, even though I wasn't doing it on purpose.

Because that is the nature of the chakras. You could say that, in as much as all energy might as well be considered intentional energy, as all energy does some kind of work, chakras regulate various kinds of intentional energy. All other intentional energies are made of combinations of these basic seven energies (more in other systems, representing, i believe, intentions few people ever utilize).

The root regulates the intention to be, to persist, to live. The second regulates the intention to acquire, satiate, have. The third regulates the intention to defend, sustain individuality, be self-sufficient. The fourth regulates the intention to be connected, to others, to oneself, which translates roughly as love, though our usage of the word is pale in comparison to the actual force itself. The fifth regulates the intention to express, communicate, move in the world in any way. The sixth (third eye) regulates the intention to percieve, analyze, interpret, utilize the mental body. The seventh regulates the intention to connect and communicate with higher consciousness.

That is a very rough list. The intentions themselves are difficult to accurately express in words, and to evidence that almost every piece of literature you read will use a different set that are recognizably related to one another. The intentions themselves are wordless, and we know most 'intentions' as combinations of them.

The point is, all intentions must be regulated through the chakras. You can effectively cripple a psion by shutting down their throat chakra, and/or third eye. The throat would be the 'sneaky way' while the third eye is the more obvious and 'blunt' way. That is, assuming that they are unaware of their higher subtle bodies and are unable to utilize them. That, or to close the center on a level higher than they can consciously act from.

Argue as you will, there is plenty more to say on the subject.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Nov 18 2007, 10:09 AM

I thought that the desire to move triggered the neurons in the brain to send an electrochemical message to the central nervous system that branched off into the perphial nervous system which triggered the muscles and tendons to contract... I also thought that the ability to understand and comprehend what is being said came from the various parts of the brain interacting... The energy that powers these interactions is not mystical in nature. It comes from the stucture of a neuron. Depending on the purpose, the sodium potassium ion pumps become more negatively charged (resting potential) or positively charged (action potential). This charge travels through the soma or cell body of the neuron, through the axon, through the dendrites, through the termini, and either hits a termini button that releases neurotransmitters into a synaptic gap or passes through the dendrite of another cell till it reaches its destination. Smaller forms of energy are gathered through breathing. Cellular respiration gets the mitochrondia to produce energy which powers the cells and don't forget the breakdown of various molecules in food for energy.





These are esoteric/metaphysical archetypes that differ based upon subjective experience and thought. In addition to that, I noticed that you are working with simply the Kudolini system. In my studies in Hapkido and Akido, we were taught a bigger scope of this, not to mention, if you go with that complete system, there are 72,000 minor nadis and 24 major ones... Anyways, there is no proof that says anything about there being mystical energy or subtle bodies. A lot of people use that word incorrectly, too. Energy is the capacity to do work. ΔE = W , ΔE = W + Q, ΔE = W + Q + E, Epi + Eki = EpF + EkF .

The affect could be psychosomatic, too. You create the affects yourself. Let us use the paradigm of the subtle body. How are the functions of each energy processing unit assigned. It seems to be rooted in spirituality. Let us say that there are subtle bodies that branch up there. They are not manifest on this plane of reality. They are out of sync, therefore, their affect on this plane would not be that much. I still don't understand where the third eye and throat chakras thing comes with psions. The affects and the power all come from the mind and maybe the nervous system. It is the brain, not the subtle body.

But, I would like to hear some more of your thoughts on the matter.

I'm well aware of the biomechanical aspect of the body and how it processes the movement of energy in itself. Where exactly the intention to do those things comes from is a debate that I doubt we will resolve here, when it has been going on since the dawn of science.

I referenced, because you mentioned chakras in relation to psionics, only the seven major chakras. There are, in my experience, 13 of them, six of which are concerned strictly with the connection of the subtle body to that which encompasses it. That is not even to consider the secondary centers located at each of the joints in the body, and the tertiary centers commonly called accupuncture points. The Nadis are concerned with how energy goes from one center to the other. Esoterically speaking.

Biologically speaking, it is understood within the paradigm of vedic science that these various major and minor energy centers in the body govern and direct the physical body on all of it's levels. Consider your point of view in relationship to your body. You do not have to think hard about doing anything with it, you simply do things. You are using intention, will, and energy to do them, but it is all a smooth process.

While our modern science understands the mechanics of how the body functions, what we talk about when we consider chakras and subtle bodies, is why it functions at all. Why the body identifies itself as an individual, has a unique point of view, and has spiritual experiences sometimes related to itself and sometimes to something greater. In time, our scientific society may well pick apart and categorize these 'subtle energies' around the time that the prove conclusively the existence of Psi energy, perhaps, through empirical observation rather than through intelligent inference. The idea of chakras and subtle bodies will still be Laughable to most scientifically minded individuals, but realistically only because they prefer to think that they have discovered something new. The vedic holy books described a universe composed of vibration thousands of years ago, and today it is a prominent aspect of many of the newer scientific theories. While I do not take anything that I have read in 'ancient books' at face value or as canon, my experience with chakras - mine and those of other people - have demonstrated to me that they can affect brain activity, quality of life in general, and physical systems as well.

Could it be psychosomatic? I thought for a time that it was, but then I read about the system - after I had been exploring it myself haphazardly for some time. At that time I was no where near as talented as I am now.

A great misconception westerners have about chakras is that they are the systems of the body. That comes from a classical western belief that the self is contained in the body, that it is the place from which we operate. It is not. While it houses the point of view that we believe to be central, that is only because we are not accustomed to experiencing a non-physical point of view. We are more complex than this, and just as the nervous system is only one system in the body, the physical body is only one system in your total being. You yourself have said that you can connect to and look at systems outside of yourself - molecules, cells, etc. You no doubt experience that in your mind, but what part of you is looking? It has been proven rather conclusively my many studies - though their lack of bias is, in my opinion, probably suspect - that brain activity does not extend far enough from the brain to be interacting with objects outside of the physical body. While many studies apparently seem to have proven that psionic abilities to exist somehow, no one can say exactly how so far - psi is just a theory. Until it can be measured, documented, obvserved empirically, that is all it will ever be. However, if the vedic philosophers had a good intuition about how the universe is put together - albeit described through symbolism and illustration rather than equations - perhaps the idea that there are non-physical elements to our total makeup bears some consideration as well.

I am proposing that what is called 'psi' is a subcategory of the subtle energy system generally. The subtle bodies, and the energies that they process, are as varied as the systems and proteins of the physical body.

So, when I say that I am using chakras now to observe, analyze, respond, and act, I do not mean that it is not my brain doing it, but that the processes going on in my brain are governed by an energetic actions within my subtle bodies. If that energetic action was interrupted, so would my physical actions be interrupted. It is energy, and it does do work - it is the energy of your intention to do anything, and the precursor to that, and so on. The origination point of every intention, and every consequence of those intentions, is far beyond the physical body.

It is always difficult to discuss these systems with people heavily steeped in scientific theory. There is a certain pride to the western scientific mind, such that I have never met one to date who did not feel that the vedic/eastern theories somehow must usurp our scientific understanding of how the physical body operates. It is simply not the whole picture.

And of course, it is a spiritual thing. But that does not mean it is not scientific, observable, and able to be experimented with - with repeatable, calculated results. The world, in one line of opinion, and everything in it is spiritual in nature. Of course, each individual may believe that or not. Many do not. But, they none the less live by the same rules as those that do, and can be affected by those rules regardless of their lack of belief.

Which, I suppose, all may sound as though I'm trying to convince you. I'm not - it wouldn't matter - but if you want a more detailed and traditional look at the subtle systems of the body, there are books on vedic science that I'm certain you can get your hands on, far better articulated by people who are far more familiar and experienced than I am. What I know is my own comparably limited experience confirmed by a great deal of theory. Once I confirmed all of my experiences with my subtle body, I gave a bit more credit to the rest of the theory.

peace

Any chemical process is going to be much much slower than an electrical one. From a Darwinian standpoint, any organism with slow chemical reaction bottlenecks is going to loose to an organism working without them; I'm certain any electro-chemical activity occurring in the body is solely for inducing chemical reactions in the body.
Take adrenaline for example,
It takes about 1.5 minutes for blood to completely circulate throughout the body, so why even release a redundant chemical process if an electrical one can do the same thing? Because chemical processes are easier to maintain over longer periods of time. Running away from the giant creature can become dull after a while, it's just the same thing over & over after all; there's ample opportunity for the mind to get distracted, thinking of what to do next perhaps, whereupon the creature gets you. In an adrenaline high, even if the mind gets monetarily distracted, the body is still prepped and ready for action.

When it comes to processes that don't require direct physical interaction, faster is better, and (physicists say) the fastest you can go is the speed of light. It's crucial to not have chemical interactions slowing things down, mostly when it comes to calculating and planning, but especially getting sensory information. All the physical senses are tied directly to the nervous system, if you can sense something, there's a neuron there connected to the CNS, operating electrically.
All electrical activity creates not just a flow of electrons but radiate waves as well, it's how we're able to broadcast radio and television (demonstration). Any time your brain cells or any other cell in your body has any sort of electrical activity, it creates a electrical field. These fields are oscilloscope-measurable, surrounding + extending beyond the body and their frequency makeup corresponds with the colors people can seen in the aura. They're not just byproducts of the body, as they can detect and react to a pain response before the physical nerves do (it's some obscenely fast ratio). There's no doubt these fields can influence the world as much as any wireless transmitter, and I suspect some of their effects can be considered psionic activity, but not all.


I'm sure there's more people researching this area, but the only person I've come across so far is Valerie Hunt, who has an excellent book that brings the aura into the realm of science, called Infinite Mind. She's got a lot more about frequency levels and their relation to levels consciousness, Schumann resonance, & more stuff that would take a while to even list.

This post has been edited by SeekerVI: Nov 19 2007, 07:11 PM

I actually believe that is how my psionic abilities work such as empathy and psychokinesis. I believe that it is tied to the physical body, however, not tied to a metaphysical system of subtle bodies. I will edit later to go more in depth, for I am on the phone at the moment.

I believe you are talking about the semi field theory.



The brain creates an intial field which influences the firing of things, anyways go to go. I will add more later.

This post has been edited by telempath: Nov 19 2007, 07:20 PM

For me Chakras are a cosmology for understanding energy flow in the human body/experience. Chakras are the most fundamental level…different systems treat them differently.

But it also ties into that we have 7 bodies…some systems have less others more. But ultimately it provides a very good map of energy work. However, do not confuse the map for the terrain.

As for psi, the people who have demonstrated the best abilities under scientific scrutiny have generally been people who follow a chakra map concept.

This goes into issues of knowledge of how things truly work (Science) Vs. (Technology) ability to use something for a desired result. You do not need to have any science to produce a technology. It helps a lot, but it is not necessary. Trial and error can produce technology, concepts and leaps of faith can as well as many other things.

Chakras are one map (perhaps the most common) of energy flow systems thought to be part of every human. PSI reportedly uses energy flowing from the person to produce results. That is the connection. It can be more or less significant as you wish. But it is a map, not even a highly detailed map of something very abstract at this moment in time.

Found another forum with a thread on cemi theory, http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=100320
it has some links:
conscious electromagnetic field theory
Cemi Theory (PDF)
Field Computation

Seeing how the aura and chakras are related, I'm sure there's a tie in somewhere; but that's way too much information for me to digest at the moment. Where's a long rainy day when you need one?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Morning all,

This is my first post so please, don't shoot.....

No expert am I but...I do have some info to share on this subject. To each their own! I'm not here to debate the existence of Chakra's with anyone. If you are uncomfortable with and/or unwilling to acknowledge Kundalini energy or the Chakra's themselves as valid, so be it. Substitute your own terms if you wish. Labels aside, the following article/website has been of great assistance to me in the last year. The information itself is timeless......
Note: Kundalini travels via the Chakra system

Electromagnetics of Kundalini

The body's EMF requires ions in the air through which to flow. The higher the ion count the higher the flow in the EMF. The higher the EMF flow, the higher the energy generation of the cells and the higher the energy of the nerves, which means a correspondingly higher EMF flow as well. The EMF or nadi egg comprises the sum total of the body's energy generation and conductivity. This explains why we are automatically more connected, awake, intelligent and spiritual in high negative ion environments. That is around moving water, in forests, in the country, the mountains and in sunlight. Our EMF has more of a medium in which to flow and this ups all the energy exchanges in the bodymind. Modern cities, deserts and much of our technology, transportation and architecture are anti-evolutionary for this reason, for they lower the ion count of the air and increase the % of positive ions we are exposed to. (see The Ion Effect by Fred Soyka and my book on regeneration for more ion info).

Remember that the heart cells are the first cells to form in the embryo, so the body grows and is organized in the heart field. The heart has a much larger EMF than the brain, so one can imagine that during metamorphic heart expansions the heart has a radically increased field. This increased heart field would reorganize the matter and energy in the body (transfiguration). Key to the transmutational ability of kundalini is that DNA is EMF sensitive, as is RNA and protein synthesis in general. EMF's induce cell differentiation and morphogenesis.

Blood moves through the heart and vessels in a vortex-flow. Joseph Chilton Pearce in Biology of Transformation p.57, mentions that inserting a single ion into such a vortex will create a powerful electromagnetic field. During kundalini the blood and cerebrospinal fluid are laden with extra ions, thus these ions in the flow of blood would increase the EMF of the heart and blood vessels. This increase in the heart EMF may be one of the reasons for the sense of heart expansion during kundalini and for the massive Solar Heart event itself. The stabilization of this increased heart EMF propagates substantiated evolutionary and transmutational changes in the bodymind.

The crown and root poles meet in the inner-conjunction through a rhythmic atunement of all the oscillating systems at a certain frequency, and perhaps in a certain sequence of frequencies. All complex electric systems in the body have their own field systems because a current creates a magnetic field. So that means that nerves, ganglia, plexes and the brain itself all have their own field systems that combine into the meta-field system of the body. The power of the inner-conjunction literally pulls all of the oscillating systems into sync, thus feeding its own flame. Normal waking consciousness and ego activity prevents the syncopation needed to let all the bodymind systems fall into this higher alignment.

As the vibratory systems go into sympathetic resonance, the heightened fields restructure matter to accommodate the increased field. The more this occurs the more the heightened spin and vibration is stabilized thus we achieve stages, rather than passing states. This process of field amplification and matter restructuring is known as "eating one's soul." Other terms for it are metamorphosis, transmutation, substantiation, and transfiguration. We know something is going on in the subatomic/atomic realms and at the cellular level but we don't yet know what this alchemy is.

Since during peak kundalini awakening the body is digesting itself to provide the energy for transformation and to rebuild the organism...there is energy available for the transmutation of elements. Normal level nervous system operation and gastrointestinal tract digestion would not provide either the quantity or quality of energy needed for this process. But at a certain point of readiness the body just naturally falls into the groove and the flame ignites.

The Biology of Kundalini.
http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?...ndTransmutation

Cheers,

IP

This post has been edited by Indigo_Pheonyx: Nov 21 2007, 11:00 AM

Purely physically there is really no mechanism for influencing one's environment (are there electrons shooting out when one stares at a person making him uncomfortable). What is likely happening is one communicates intent to elemental entities who then carry out the intent. Which chakra is best utilized for this depends on the person (mental, emotional, physical type). Kundalini is where the "divine essence sleeps" though, so it's the power/amplificator in the process in all schools.

The chakra system is one of many paradigms to explain how energy exchange works. And Westerners have taken ideas about chakra and Kundalini lore and spun out their own paradigms and pontifications about them--and have tried to tie them into to nice bows and ribbons with scientific --or scientific sounding--ideas. I have worked with chakras and so-called kundalini and also gone through the literature. I am in agreement that it is a metaphor or is an esoteric way of explaining psychophysical and neuroelectrical processes, all of which are not wholly explained by neurologists or consciousness researchers but are recognized by them.

When I meditate, I often feel movement in "chakras." This is experiential. I don't have rigid ideas about what exactly is happening mechanistically or esoterically. When I do energy work or magical work that involves psionics, I don't have a system in which I use this or that chakra. It is not important. I am in an experience, not an intellectualization or mechanization. But I know plenty of people who talk along these lines and have very systematized ways of visualizing energy and chakras and all that. Some people are impressively effective in what they do because they are true believers in that paradigm. There are other people who I tend to humor and tune out on when they get into get into that jargon because they are throwing around cliches.

I did not mean to say I agreed to the terminology myself, it was the terminology used in this thread. To me they are in a causative relationship to the nervous system, not caused by it in any way. Scientists are hostile to psi exactly because it has no physical basis. Pure energy cannot possibly grasp anyone's intent, there has to be some intelligence on the receiving end of the intent (no matter how primitive). And everyone is naturally centered in one or other of the energy centers as a person, and therefore works with those centers with least resistance.

For myself I believe it is useful to know about the mechanics if one is not naturally disposed to believing things. The reason psionic intent is faciliated by electromagnetic devices may be because the nervous system (and thought processes) are electromagnetic in nature (and psionicists also tend to be mental types).

Charkas are your energy vortexes. You have to accumulate a large amount of energy to do kinesis.
Excercises for your chakras as well as meditation will help tremendously.

When the Kundalini is awakened, you have access to the earth's energy, which gives you powers.

I have a few small things to say, firstly, that Qi or Prana is often called 'energy' however it isn't energy in the sense that magnetic force is energy or electricity or light or heat or gravity are forms of energy. Qi does share some qualities with physical forms of energy, but it isn't exactly energy. We just call it energy as a convenience. It is spirit or spiritual energy and is not physical, although it often accompanies physical forms of energy and mixes with it. Our aura is primarily spiritual energy, but we also have a electro-magnetic field and emit heat and infra-red radiation for example.

Secondly, we tend to talk about chakras as if they were an independent and isolated part of us. The reality is that our chakras are simply a part of our spiritual body or energy body. We also have meridians that circulate qi within the body as blood circulates within the body. We also have an energy field commonly called the aura that surrounds us. These things together make up our spiritual body; the chakras are just a part of the anatomy of our spiritual bodies. They are interdependant and you cannot exercise and strengthen the chakras in isolation. You have to work with the whole system.

Thirdly, while I am not an expert on the brain I would not say that the brain is the seat of our consciousness. There is a difference between the brain and the mind. Actually, they are now saying that we use the whole nervous system in our conscious thought--and that is a conservative view. If we were able to transplant a brain into another body we wouldn't get the original personality in all likelihood, rather it would likely be a mixture of the owners of the brain and the body if it worked at all. I would say that our mind uses our brain but isn't simply our brain. A more likely explanation is that our brain is an organ that allows our body to interface with our spirit, our essential self.

As for Psionics, it seems to be an over-simplified explanation for Siddhis and spiritual abilities dressed up in somewhat more scientific language.