That's fine. You can do it on the floor if you want, so long as it is clean.

Good luck!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

This will sound harsh...but it is well intentioned...

DO YOU NEED SOMEONE TO HOLD YOUR HAND?

You claim to be ready but my guess is that if you need to ask these 'questions' then you aren't!
Now, DO IT!

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You perform the LBRP and LBRH at the beginning of the ritual to banish all energies that might interfere with your working. You should then proceed with an invoking ritual (Bornless One, Opening by Watchtower, or Invoking Pentagram ritual). Then begin the evocation. The formula is simple:

1. Banish
2. Invoke
3. Evoke
4. Dismiss the evoked spirit
5. Close/ release the invoked energies (Closing by Watchtower)
6. Banish

The Middle Pillar is used at any point in the ritual when you want to circulate energy through your body and project it as focused Will. It may be a good idea to perform the MP just before reciting the evocation.



ideally you consecrate your items well before the evocation itself. Now might be a good period to start consecrations given the waxing moon. Also, I don't know how much scrying work you have done with the black mirror, but this takes practice. You might want to practice looking into the black mirror and going into trance via the 4x4 breathing pattern...make sure that you can at least get to the point when the mirror begins to cloud. You can do this without any fancy ritual set-up, a kitchen counter works great. Just make sure that the only light source in the room are the two candles on either side of the mirror.

As for the tools. Be certain that you know what they symbolize and how they work. Ideally you have been using them to some extent in your daily practice. All this charges the tools and makes them comfortable extensions of your Will. If you are familiar and comfortable with everything (tools, symbolism, scrying, rituals, and the words used) and there is no doubt in your mind regarding your success, then your evocation will be successful...simple as that.

Remember, none of this should be "new" to you when you perform the evocation. Take it very much like sport, you practice techniques, tactics, and conditioning separately before combining them for the Big match.

I have to go with bym on this. Get it done. Your just going to drive yourself bonkers with questions. Faust laid it out in case you question anything else. It sounds to me like your to worried about it.

Hi all,

Thanks for the advice, first thing I'm gonna do if I get tis money is buy this website and fire Bym for being such an arrogant know it all ; I thought this site was here to help, blimey bet your kids don't approach him when they a school poject and need assistance.

That is out of line.

This site is not here to help. This site is here for like minded individuals to gather and discuss our art and craft in fellowship. No one is required to help you or answer any of your questions. You mention having Konstantinos's book and I assume at least a copy of the Goetia and perhaps other titles as well, if you had actually read them they answer all these questions you are asking. I myself have posted two classes on this site that answer your questions but it is obvious you have not read those as well. Most people often lend a hand to beginners on this and other sites but not when the questions are inane and meaningless if you have done the required homework. Having an attitude and snapping at people that are trying to help I highly doubt you will get much help in the future from others.

Also, you would be hard pressed to fire Bym as he and all the other mods work for free. No one including myself gather any monetary compensation from this site. Keep that in mind before you say things you shouldn't.

well with all due respect he shouldnt dish out criticism if he cant take it back, and with further respect I dont remember asking you for advice

It wasn't criticism, it was tough love.

You are attempting to evoke a demon into your presence and then demand or bribe a task from it. You say you are ready yet ask questions to indicate that proper tools have not been prepaired and you have not even planned out the operation. It is healthy and normal to be nervous but I hope you are not hoping to just wing it. You might skate by but if something goes wrong you are going to have your hands full. Bym's "criticism" was to either for you to overcome your nerves and just go ahead and do it or realize you are not properly prepaired and correct the situation. And no you did not specifically request my advise personally but you did post questions on a board for anyone to see and respond, being an administrator here that includes me. If my help is not needed or appreciated then I will leave you to it. In the future do not abuse the mods or fellow members or I will have to step in and correct the situation.

Greetings!

What??? You openly invite commentary and now that you've got feed back, I'm ARROGANT? A few members even agreed with me....yet I'm arrogant.... Fine. I hope that your endeavor is a great success!

If anyone here is unhappy about the actions of another mermber or mod please feel free to contact Admin about the situation via PM. In this case above, Nero was kind enough to be present. Thanks all!

Greetings stevekent,

BYM is cool and he does a great job.

You on the other hand sir are a dingle dorkus.

What BYM is saying is stop over contemplating and just do it.

Perhaps knowing it all comes with being 99 years old?

After all BYM was doing this while you were still pooping your diapers!

Don't ask for advice if you are not open to receiving it.

In which case you have only wasted a lot of peoples time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sculacciata.gif)

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Dec 28 2006, 02:47 PM

No you know what guys if he has this much trouble with dealing a bit of criticism and cannot take the weak little nudge that Bym gave than he needs nothing to do with any demon of any kind. My opinion go away grow up a bit and than think about demons for what they really are and what they are capable of. It would take a great deal of messing up but you could literally have the boogey man roaming around your house in fact you may live in my neighborhood. So do us all a favor and dont make nightmare on my street a reality....

By the way you did not ask for any specific advice but posting up on this forum leaves all questions open for any opinion. If you cannot deal with the fact that you may F^&k things up than you should not be dabbling in the first place. We are talking about things good and bad that have existed before Jesus. Mostly bad by the way. And they can and will do anything to gain a foothold in the reality that you live in.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Dec 28 2006, 03:31 PM

Greetings!
Thanks guys....but we're getting off topic here. I'd still like to see stevekent tell us of the results of his experiment(s). We all need support from time to time and you guys were great! ...on both ends! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The truth is and i actually have just learned this recently ( Im just gaining a foothold in the magic department) You have to be completly positive about the entire situation. Sort of like a quarter back. OOps i just got sacked oops i fumbled. Get up rub some dirt on it and keep right on going. In the middle of any casting or ritual is no time to even let one mistake slow you down or doubt or even rethink the mistake (at that moment at least). For me as a dreamer i have to say the evocation is less forgiving.
With dreaming the situation you put yourself in is where it gets tricky. For you its the process of getting there and than makeing the right decision after arrival.
I think the reason we all started to dig on you a bit was because even in your writing i could feel the negative energies, and the unsure demeaner came through also.
Anyways just keep on track and focus as if in a meditation. Nothing will break you and once a mistake is made (if indeed it is) heck with it its too late. i know there are certain points where you can turn back but i have yet the knowlede to explain that. In my opinion that would be the very last thing i would want to even think of in the heat of the moment.
Peace and god speed, Enochian.

I have to disagree with you a bit, Enochian.

The fact is, yes, one does know when it's time to do these kinds of things, but that still doesn't take away the nervous feeling we have that we might mess up with this or that.

I can say honestly that I've performed enough rituals including evocations with doubts in my mind, and even fear, to find that it worked out better than I could hope for. I believe it's the powers that be that are responsible for those feelings, trying to make think that we shouldn't be doing whatever it is we're doing. I guess to try to reinforce our faith in ourselves.

For example, I prepared for a couple of weeks to do an evocation of a goetic last night, and when the time came to do it, I almost chickened out. Why? Who knows. But I didn't. Once I stepped into my circle I felt much more confident in myself, and once I had finished the bornless ritual, I felt fantastic.

I guess the best advice I can give to steve is that it is natural to feel fear when we are confronted with the devil, but as long as we remember who and what we are, then we realize that there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

I do agree here with altpath. I´ve found before doing certain rites that I start feeling a lot of inertia, almost as if I´m being tested on how dedicated or how much I really want to do the rite. It does normally stop once I get going though.

stevekent,

So how did it go? Everything go all right? If you can't talk about the specifics, that's fine, but I think everyone is curious to know if you were successful.

hay Altpath, If your not using god names in your evocation can I know what evocation you use. almost all evocations use god names, whould you mind posting a copy for me please.

Although I don't recommend this kind of conjuration now for all the goetic demons, it's definately something to consider using while you're trying to find just the right demon. Some demons can be great with some people, and try to kill everyone else, so it's just a matter of being patient to figure out which is the best way to evoke them. So if you find one that seems to want to be your friend, then try this method. If it doesn't want to obey you at all, use god names.

The way I go about it is saying something like "By the powers vested in me as your master, I command you in the name of N.(name their king) to appear before this circle, and within the triangle of art (if you're using one), for your King commands you to appear now! Why stay you? Do not delay, appear! Your King N. commands you, not I, to appear!" Etc., etc. It's pretty simple, really, and they don't seem to want to piss off their king, so they should obey with this. Like I said, if you go about it this way, they might think you are being too nice, so command them, don't ask them nicely to do what you want if they are not obeying you. It doesn't matter what name or godname you use to evoke them, they come easily, it's the constraining that is a bit more difficult.

It's important, I know now, to make sure that you have ALOT of protection for yourself before going into this kind of thing, like angelic contacts and friends, familiars, and possibly a good relationship with one or more powerful godforms. The egyptian deities are nice, and more suited to this kind of magick, IMHO.

Here's a brief account of an evocation of Bune that we did a couple of months back. I don't have the full details because they are in my friend's journal, but this is roughly the gist of things. Essentially, it was done on the spur of the moment. We stuck a small cauldron full of water on the coffee table in the living room and drew the seal on paper to put underneath...I think we may have put my aemeth under it too. We stuck on an appropriate planetary incense (Bune is Venereal iirc?) and proceeded as follows:

1) Star Ruby
2) 1st and 2nd calls
3) Impromptu evocation of Bune

He turned up fairly quickly with lots of "Black Pope" type imagery, like he was depicting himself as a corrupt catholic priest in a desecrated church. The scryer asked him to explain the bit about changing the place of the dead and was shown a vision of a great pit with souls climbing up and down into it continually. Bune was there in his big snake/dragon style form (cf: the goetia) and explained that this was basically his job to oversee and control. He was asked about what services he could provide and said that he could do a number of things for us and that it was easy for him to turn a poor man into a rich man, but he went on to say that he wouldn't do it now because the scryer's need was not great enough. He suggested there were other spirits that could do it so why were we bothering him? He then volunteered some stuff about the scryer's ancestry that was previously unknown, i.e. how there came to be a hint of darker skin tones in the family (prior to this the scryer had assumed his grandmother had had an affair with a gypsy, but apparently it was someone from the arab countries).

You can see a couple of things from this:

a) What we did was nothing like the procedure from the book.
b) Bune may not be interested in helping you with the money.

Also, for about a month afterwards we had a dead guy wandering around the house (spirit, obviously). This was noticed by several visitors as well as us. Now that I think of it, it could well have been Bune having a joke with us and "changing the place of the dead". He seems to have gone now though and was never any trouble.

Very fascinating working J*S,

Did he mention any other good spirits that could be helpful? I've not run across a good spirit that is willing to help (and actually does) with money.

Hehe...I know what you mean! Getting them to turn up is easy enough, getting anything out of them once they are there is a different matter! ;-) Although I love practising evocation I do find that the fact you have to deal with another sentient being that has its own agendas means that a more simple procedure can be often more consistent in terms of results. That said, maybe I'm just not offering good enough bribes, and I freely admit I have only been practising evocation for around 18 months so I still have a lot to learn.

Anyway, to answer the question; I don't recall any other names being mentioned but I would need to see the notes again to be completely certain.

Since that operation one of the people involved has worked with Marbas, who said he would have things sorted out for them by the middle of this year. It looks like that might happen, given what is going on in the individual's life at the moment. I have also done some work with Gusion for different ends. I got what I asked for in terms of events, although my request was borne out of frustration and ill-considered. I should probably have asked for something slightly different to get the full benefit I was looking for. I intend to work with him again and define my goals more carefully before I begin the operation.

thanks altpath I like that conjuration but wouldnt it be lying unless the demon king did actually give you authority.
I like to use my normal conjuration

I evoke and conjure thee, O spirit "_____" by the Supreme Majesty - the true God who is known by the names of YOD HEH VAV HEH (yode-heh-vahv-heh), ADONAI (ah-doe-ney), EHEIEH (eh-hey-yay), and AGLA (ah-gah-lah) to appear before me in this mirror (or crystal ball) in a fair and comely shape.

I need the God names to give me strength. you know what I mean. Its through the God names that I wouldnd be afraid.
but I think the one above may be abit to much.

Hello scryer,

That's a good conjuration you have, I think it's best to use godnames of course, but in the goetia, it specifies to call on the demon kings if all else fails, so that's my way of understanding it. I don't think it'd be lying at all to say we have the authority of their king to call them, since we are above the Kings, in a chain-of-command sense. We are the Kings (or Queens) of Kings.

I've come to understand now why the godnames are used, so that's the best recommendation I can give.

anybody else here worried about steve kent???

Although I don't currently have the required level of ability, and probably won't for some time yet, I'll admit that both from what little I've read of the Goetia, and what people have said on here, if I was ever going to try any of the spirits from it myself hypothetically, Bune would almost certainly be my choice.

It's probably actually a good thing that I haven't tried evocation really at all, yet...because although I'd avoid being disrespectful as such, as well as paying attention to the appropriate formalities with protection and so on, I suspect I'd try and compensate for my nervousness about the situation by using a similar form of conversational style with them to the one Richard Anderson tended to use with the Goa'uld in SG-1. (Albeit with some ethnic variance; I'm Australian - this probably also isn't entirely serious, as you can possibly tell)

"Bune, old mate! I've got this rather awkward economic situation at the moment, and recently I was trying to come up with a way out of it. Anywayz, there's this group of people I've started hanging out with, and the word from them is that if money's what anyone's after, you're the man to see. I'll admit that I probably wasn't going to delve too far into the Goetia initially, but something else these friends of mine also implied is that you're an exceptionally easygoing, friendly guy to work with, by Goetic standards...so that being the case, I figured I'd dial you up and we could have a chat. What do you say?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Hey Petrus,

I don't know if you have the Steve Savedow book "Goetic Evocation", but there is a lengthy piece in there about his evocations of Bune over a course of a year or so. Interesting stuff though I don't agree entirely on his views and methods. However it might interest you to know that when he first evoked bune the spirit arrived screaming at him, threatening death, and other sorts of abuse.
Whatever else, it makes for an interesting read.

Loki

This post has been edited by loki: Dec 21 2007, 08:50 AM

You know, that would most likely work better then what most people say when they call him up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). I recommend having a glass of booze out for him as well, chats with people about helping you *always* go better over a drink..

Athena

I'm not a huge authority on alcohol, and I don't drink so much these days, but when I did, my own poison of choice was eight year aged Wild Turkey...I could try offering some of that, I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

I'm somewhat in the same boat. I used to be a heavy drinker too. My favorite drinks were cognac, jack daniels, and well aged tequila (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I would like to point out, seeing my post above that I made in january, I DO NOT condone using god names anymore with the daemons, especially for conjurations.
I also don't believe that daemons are below us, but I guess that's for everybody to decide for themselves.

I've learned from my mistakes, and I hope others do too.
Just because so many CMers say that there's only a right and a wrong way of doing things, doesn't mean that's how it is. Definately try new things, even if it breaks away with the dogma of the old days.

This post has been edited by altpath: Dec 21 2007, 10:08 PM

Actually that's not a bad way to word things. You're asking the spirit to help you with a situation, and so long as you explain it clearly (although I've found they generally get the gist of things a lot faster than people do), they're usually willing to help. Just because you're the boss doesn't mean you have to be an ass--a lot of people seem to forget this--and a polite request usually gets faster and friendlier service than a harshly worded command.

Bune's always been friendly with me. He doesn't talk much, but then I usually don't ask him to either. If I just want to shoot the bull that's what IM chat is for... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)