I was surfing for information regarding Djinn and found this website...
This cannot possibly be real, can it?
http://www.creepyhollows.com/manifest_djinn.shtml

This post has been edited by Sunshine: Feb 16 2008, 10:10 PM

hummm. really cant tell for sure.

if they could provide proofs infront of the potential buyers before payment is made, that would make things more of a decent deal.

Like if the djinn is so fast and has so much power, those people can just sent the djinn and move a pen on your table just for you to be sure of the deal. but they dont seem to do that.

any inputs?

Very difficult to say, although I can say with reasonable certainty that the film wasn't altered.

That doesn't dismiss the possibilities that the 'smoke manifestations' weren't simply chemically induced - any number of chemicals will give off small amounts of vapor when exposed to one another, and with the proper camera angle you wouldn't see it necessarily.

I'd have to see someone take the ring off, set it down on table top, and command the djinn to manifest before I'd be more convinced - all that without breaking the camera feed, and preferably with multiple camera angles at once.

And I agree with Mystik - if they're so powerful, why not a demonstration for the buyer?

Also slightly off topic, but they mention Bahai Djinn, Angelic Djinn, Cleopatra Djinn - I can only find references to six clans of djinn from the cultural source. I'm not djinn scholar, but it seems to me that they might be stretching it a little?

My assessment is that they are full of it.

peace

Although I believe that some entities can be bound to objects, I wouldn't trust anyone claiming that entities as powerfull as gods/godesses can be bound, that their powers may be harnessed or that their favours may be gained by just buying something.

Oh wow! check this out: this ($ 2,500.00 ) ring" holds the powers and blessings of 20 Greek Immortals!!!"

http://store.creepyhollows.com/cart.php?ta...category_id=117

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif) OK...

And don't forget to have a look at this page to know how to keep your "immortal" (=god/godess)

http://www.creepyhollows.com/guide_immortal.shtml

Yeah, right... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nonono.gif)

To be honest, while I believe that there are ways to obtain familiar spirits of different sorts, I think it is a bit far fetched to believe that by buying a ring one can keep his own god and treat it like a tamagotchi.

This post has been edited by Rick: Feb 17 2008, 10:16 AM

They can always pause the camera, move the ring, and run the camera again (IOW, stop-motion animation -- that's how SCI FI Channel's "Ghost Hunters" debunked a fake "ghost".)





You never really see behind the gemstone. They can always hide dry ice or some other chemical behind the gem and position it out of camera view.





I agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

that's just, yeah, like dry ice or whatever - happy smoke

man, what folks will sell, and buy !!!

es

This post has been edited by esoterica: Feb 18 2008, 07:12 AM

Thank you for taking a look at the site. Actually Spiritualism is a serious practice that some, like ourselves, have dedicated an entire lifetime to. The conjuration and binding of spirits is a practice that requires a great deal of study. I am surprised to see a site such as one named "Unexplained Mysteries" so close-minded. I would think as fellow patrons of the paranormal one might be more enlightened to the practices not as advertised such as ghost-hunting.

Spiritualism is a branch of the paranormal that is always overlooked and never given the credit it is due. I know that we are not the only practitioners who have a website and we not only offer spirits but also for the collectors to learn about and have the opportunity to practice their own works of conjuration and binding. We have a forum with more than 200 members who discuss spirits, enchanted objects, magickals and just day to day life and Creepy Hollows has a following of more than 400 members and that is just us, there are 10 other practitioners I know who also have a large following.

Spiritualism is a comfort, a lifestyle and like other paranormal beliefs shouldn't be mocked. Spiritualism is wonderful because it encompasses any and all religions and offers a sanctuary for any who want to live their lives without conformity. Not every paranormal believer is just a ghosthunter, there is more to the realms of spiritual and astral planes - alot more. For many of us our fellow collectors are like a second family, people we can count on, trust and find a great deal of support from in all aspects of our lives.

For a website such as this I would expect open minds rather than mockery. You should know more about what you are judging before you are judge and jury. Spiritualism, someday, will be as recognized as ghost-hunting or alien investigations, but hopefully not as commercialized.

In regards to how the Immortals can be bound you can read this article here that explains Immortals towards the bottom:http://www.creepyhollows.com/article_spirits.shtml

Or you can sign up for classes this summer in the University or buy our book when it is released through printed publication next year - we may be offering e-copies of the book earlier than that but with print publishing it takes a minimum of a year for it to be printed and distributed.

As for the manifestations those are highly classified spirits that are not for sale and required a GREAT amount of time with the entity. They are in our personal collection and if you'd like to learn more about other collectors who have experienced the same manifestations, other smoke manifestations, orbs, and other manifestations not only from djinn but from other entities as well we have a forum where the collectors share their experiences.

The practice of Spiritualism and the collection of spiritual entities is not a novelty or a game, it is a serious responsibility.

In regards to the races and classes of djinn and other entities we offer we work with Pre-Islamic, Islamic, Arabic, Egyptian, Chinese, Norse and African. If you are truly interested in learning more about djinn I do not suggest online sources, I suggest finding the books that speak in detail about djinn and djinn origins. Some of them are out of print but many second-hand bookstores can provide you used copies. Not to mention many spirits and entities are drawn using proprietary methods by the Order, Coven, Alliance and other secret or member-only organizations. There is a great deal of knowledge that is passed only from member to member and not broadcasted on the internet. I have found the knowledge shared on places such as Wikipedia is limited only to regurgitating the same information that is available on many sites.

You can find information on entities not only on our website but also sites such as www.hauntedcuriosities.com, www.uamd.org, www.dovemacob.org, www.indotalisman.com

You'll find this branch of the paranormal is much bigger than you think.

I hope you all enjoy your weekend.

This post has been edited by creepyhollows: Feb 23 2008, 02:38 PM

creepyhollows:


I don't think you have any idea who you're dealing with.



Let's take your $2,500 ring for example (The one that enables a person to "channel the power of 20 immortals.") May I remind you that we're talking about GODS here -- powerful beings who are deserving of a great deal of respect.

You've seen fit to lump Zeus together with Hera and Prometheus -- three powerful beings who do NOT get along (Read your mythology: Zeus was a philanderer, having affairs with Alcmene, Io, Antiope, Europa, and Metis, among others. That said, he and Hera -- his wife -- were often at loggerheads.)

As for Prometheus, he STOLE fire from the Gods (In Zeus's eyes, this makes him a thief. Zeus was so angry that he ordered him chained to a rock and tortured by having a vulture eat his regenerating liver.)



You seek to harness powerful forces, any one of whom would give a mortal the power of a god. By lumping 20 of them of them together in one ring (Available for $2,500 plus shipping and handling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif) ), you're stretching the bounds of credulity.




Forgive us if we greet your wares with a degree of skepticism. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nonono.gif)

This post has been edited by The Sorceress: Feb 23 2008, 04:24 PM

The idea that one may be capable of binding a single God is already far beyond my limit of credulity.

Gods are powerful beings, hence the name. I would be really curious to find out more about this person (or these people...) whose power is superior to that of the gods (it obviously has to be, otherwise how bind an entity that is by far superior/more powerful?).
Also, if it is not meant to be kept as a secret, would it be possible to be told what type of ritual is used?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif)

Sorceress:

The binding of an Immortal is not like they all being kept in a room together. You are binding the essence and power of an Immortal and there are varying degrees of how their powers can be bound and you can bind singular powers or multiple powers.

The ring with the binding of 20 Immortals is a prime example though typically they are not bound together, they are bound individually or in pairs.

It's not as though they are all existing together wholly within the ring as though they are renting a room together and will be talking amongst one another. That isn't the case at all.

You don't have to be higher than the Immortals or greater than the Immortals in order to bind their essence, that's silly, anyone can commune with the Immortals and they are happy to oblige those who treat them with respect.

I don't think any one here is familiar with spirit binding or you would have a greater handle on the process and how collectors interact with them. I don't pretend to be an expert on all aspects of the paranormal and spiritualism as there are numerous branches of beliefs in the paranormal. I also don't comment or judge on things I do not know of.

Immortals are entities of great power and influence but they are also extraordinarily vain (if you read your mythology as I am extremely clear on many aspects of more than 5 Immortal mythologies - by the way I obviously don't consider it a myth) and are more than willing to commune with humans when they are given respect, admiration and shown preference.

The thought that an entity of greater power cannot be accessed is ancient and inaccurate. There are currently more than 20 practiced religions across the world that involve the direct communication, access and use of powers of the Immortals of Grecian, Roman, African, Asian and Norse origins. They use rituals and ceremonies in order to make a connection with and ask for the favor of the Immortals powers. This is no exception and those already established practices have been utilized for literally thousands of years - some before the birth of Christ.


Rick:

Actually there were 11 rituals used in the 20 Immortal binding. That is part of the reason the cost of the vessel is so high, it took more than a month to bind it. We actually did a very similiar piece with 14 Immortals a year ago for a collector and it was $500 more than this one.

If you are interested in learning more about it please write to me at [email protected] (just remove the NO SPAM part) and I can tell you more about the rituals used without giving away trade secrets.

Creepyhollows:

I don't consider myself an expert on Djinn, personally, however my research skills are pretty sharp, and I have a long history of interest and earnest research into middle and far eastern religion and mythology. The Djinn are specific to a particular culture - the egyptians, norse, and other cultures you mentioned, do not have their own 'mythology' as it were, of Djinn. The history, 'mythology', and practical work regarding Djinn summoning, binding, and consultation are specific to a particular group of middle eastern cultures. Other cultures may have a comparable 'mythology', but it should be classified properly as such, organized perhaps in the same category but differing in the specifics.

There are plenty of pseudo-gurus, mystics, and magicians who are in fact charlatans, who none the less have a dedicated following. Having people support your cause does not necessarily mean that your cause is legitimate at all. There is a popular long-standing attitude among magicians-for-hire, artificers of various magickal goods, etc., that they do not need to offer proof, and that the discerning individual with deep pockets can rest assured that their products would not be so costly were they not the genuine article. This goes against every professional ethic there is - references, work history, education credentials, or demonstrable evidence of some sort, as to the professionals legitimacy, is a standard aspect of any service provider, artist, or skilled tradesman's professional practice. If you are willing to present some proof of the work you have done with binding spirit entities, then no one here will take such a skeptical view.

Every other magician-for-hire, of every flavor, that I have made this proposition responds in essence that they do not give handouts, freebies, etc., as though they were being asked to do so in the first place, dismissing the proposal on the grounds that there are plenty of other people willing to buy their products. The willingness and ability to offer such a proof, of some sort, would make such a business venture wildly successful, and probably further the field of spiritualism as a while as well. Refusing gives one more mark against the field and convinces onlookers that it's nothing but another scam.

As was mentioned in another thread on this forum, there are such unscrupulous individuals who knowingly, and willfully, mislead others out of their money without any intention of actually delivering anything. It is in the interest of the consumer, as well as the earnest researcher, to be skeptical about such claims, because the people actually fullfilling them are not the only ones making them out there - and in fact, those people make up the extreme minority in the field of magic-for-sale (or hire).

So before shaking a finger at us here for being so skeptical and a little sarcastic, take into consideration the long and rather dirty history of this field as a commercial endeavor, and if you truly wish to sway us, or anyone else for that matter, then be prepared to do something to that end, rather than simply explain in some vague detail the lineage that we must simply take for granted that you actually hail from. Magic in all its forms is about results.

Peace

Never seen so much piffle in all my life.
No it's not real....just a marketing scheme to get people to part with their money.

And at 125 dollars for a bit of agate...well....I'll leave you to make up your own mind.

In regards to providing "hand-outs" and "freebies" we actually do quite a bit for collectors and give out a lot of things for free including binding rituals, spells, and we are part of the Spirit Rescue Adoption movement to find homes for spirits that can no longer be attended to by their present owners or are unintentionally abandoned by death or other pale circumstances. I am always willing to discuss openly with those truly interested in knowing more or learning for themselves. So actually, we give quite a bit to those who believe and we participate locally and abroad as collectors ourselves.

The only reason I came here is I saw it as a referring domain on our website and wanted to see what this forum offered.

I always expect the cold word, the ignorant to be the loudest in their claims of knowing better when they know nothing of the practice at all, and no matter what belief there will always be someone or someones who know it all and believe nothing can exist outside of their own "truth". However it is worse when it comes from within the paranormal or metaphysical community because there is enough of the nay-sayers in the world as it is.

As far as the price of my integrity, we do a lot of work that off the site and I don't recall anywhere in the thread or post that the Immortals were djinn because they aren't. As for what djinn are capable of, again, you might do well your own intelligence to research others who actually collect since you are light to take my word for it. People have to break out of this Aladdin's lamp shell of thinking if they really want to learn what djinn Keeping and ownership is about. Djinn expand far beyond the gold-cuffed puff of smoke that emits from the lamp.

As for the price of an agate stone that shows your ignorance on how the value of a piece is determined. It isn't the stone that is $125, it is what is bound to the stone. That should be quite obvious especially if you truly took any time to read the articles or guides on our site.

I don't go into Voodoo sites, Sorcery sites, Wiccan sites, Alien-Abduction sites or the like and claim to be judge and jury of their practices and beliefs as I don't know to great extent their individual traditions and heritage. Therefore my condemnation or comment to the extent of their integrity would be ignorant and not worth the keystrokes or breath taken to utter.

For those truly interested in learning and not continuing a path of blind judgment we are open to sharing and have with many. There are some secrets that are trade but we have shared a great many things like rituals, spells, bindings, and the like with those who are interested.

There is enough poison to be spread amongst those of the magick community, psychic community, spiritual community that I really don't think we should be tearing each other down. If the practitioner is honest and willing to stand behind what they offer whether it be services, vessels, readings, spellwork, etc then we like to align ourselves with those willing to stand behind their work. We are in support of any honest practitioner , no matter their course of subscription - psychic, magick, Wiccan, etc and to that end opened an auction site where they can offer their services auctions.creepyhollows.com and to date we've not had any complaints from collectors and if we were to receive any we would take it with the weight it is given.

As far as results, again, I can't stress enough the collectors who belong to our forum. It isn't a forum just for us, it is a forum that relies on the collectors to tell other collectors what sellers and sites are honest and can be trusted and they decide who is and who isn't. They are the ones who interact day-to-day with the spirits and services that we, and other honest practitioners offer.

I'm not here to convert anyone, everyone has their own path and it's for everyone to decide which path to follow. And I'm also not here to condemn you or your beliefs because I find someone standing in judgment of what someone believes or practices ignorant and foolish. That is why I embraced Spiritualism, it encompasses all religions and makes everyone feel welcome.

I'm not some grand-Priestess, I didn't come from a blood lineage of Witches or Sorcerers, I have studied, practiced and dedicated my entire life to the practice of Spiritualism by way of being a Gnostic and no one can tell me what I believe is right or wrong and I wouldn't dare impose myself by telling you that what you believe is right or wrong.

Again, if anyone is interested in learning more they can write to me any time. My email address is listed in the thread above just remove the NOSPAM part. We're more than willing to share but you won't have any answers if you don't come and ask the question. Either way as my presence is little welcome here I won't return but my offer to extend my hand in friendship and explain further to anyone who wants to know more stands without expiration.

Hi,

its not that you are not welcome here. Infact it is a good, really good thing you came to put your point of view and defend what you do. Still do understand my point which i put in my 1st reply on this post. if the djinn can move the ring or create smoke, and as djinns are very fast entities, then why cant you just go prove that to a potential buyer and while you both are online, you make the djinn move something before that person. I am sure its not only the object the djinn is bound that they can move as then it will show the djinn got not much power and what you sell is only a ring moving djinn at the site of the seller. That of couse i am sure is not what you sell for the price.



Ok prove me that the djinn is worth the price. i will give you my details and you make the djinn do the same thing it did on the video with a small object that i tell you at my place....

Else if i am too demanding, do tell me how i can believe in you.



regards and thanks for taking the time to answer,

mystick

I’ve had a good look round your site and I have formed my own conclusion thank you very much.
Stating that it’s Djinn’s destiny to serve humans is the most arrogant thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
How dare you!
Your arrogance shows your complete lack of comprehension.
The whole point of harnessing Djinn energy is that the Djinn freely lend their energy to you – not because you have bound and enslaved them and they certainly don’t do it because it is their destiny – they do it IF they choose to.
You have all sides covered very well don’t you, very carefully worded get out clauses when people buy your ridiculously priced items and get a big fat zilch in return.

It’s not that I think an entity of greater power cannot be accessed, I KNOW it can – but it cannot be commanded and it certainly does not have to obey. Djinn’s would laugh at you and your arrogance.

I invite you to send me one of your rings – and you can rest assured that I will shout about the outcome of it to the rest of the world one way or the other.

I did an experiment. It was slightly sketchy, but it all turned out okay in the end.

I bought a cheap ring. I whipped up an ad for ebay, pronouncing the ring as the home of a Mars Djinn - I threw in a sufficient amount of mythology to sell it well, and I included with it the promise of documents (which I did produce in about two hours) regarding the usage of the djinn including a binding ritual specific to these djinn.

I posted it on ebay, it sold in a day for $300.

Now, it violates my ethics to be so dishonest, but I had to know, so I shipped it off, next day air. The buyer, a young lady in virginia, was pleased with the outcome, and felt a strong connection with the Djinn, who gave her its name, and immediately gave her the confidence that I promised it would.

After performing the ritual, doing the oblation I included, and meditating with the ring - pewter with a c.z. Garnet, attained for $15us at a local consignment shop, looks absolutely tacky and 'arcane' - she was pleased to have this djinn, whom she was very much aware of to the point that it, she believed, manifested as a flickering light in her peripheral vision, and identified itself to her when she asked about the manifestation. It's name was Saranj, a nickname, apparently. (the name included was "Al-Abdhiraj" [made up, not arabic as far as I know; I calculated the chances of the buyer speaking arabic to be, well, slim.])

Tempted as I was to take the 300 and run, I admitted the fraud, refunded her money, and bid her to keep the ring - I had done a basic purification rite over it, although the deception probably tainted it - cluing her in to the situation at hand, and apologizing. Perhaps in the future she'll think twice before buying in to such a scam.

The point is this. Just because people say they are pleased with the entities they've recieved, just because you have a forum where people all trade secrets about their favorite spiritual pets - does not mean they are really interacting with any kind of spiritual being. Sell it well enough, and people will believe in it, practice it, and get 'results' of some kind. They'll delude themselves into thinking that they have gotten their money's worth because they want a magical experience, they want to be part of this special society of spirit collectors, and what's worse - the people who think they are doing this legitimately are reinforced by it when they get this reaction. Especially if the salesman is a talented and educated writer. Although having seen a few incredibly bogus looking ads sell out, well... maybe that doesn't really count for much - proving that there are varying degrees of ignorance, and some are very, very negative degrees.

I don't have the ad anymore, as it ran it's course, but here's the text:

*******************************************

The Seller is a distinguished craftsman and mystic who has been a dedicated occultist for more than fifty years. He was initiated into western occultism by a senior member of the former Golden Dawn, one of the most famous lodges of the western occult tradition, and the philosophical foundation for almost all modern occult theory and practice in the west.

After attaining some success through his work with the lodge, he began travelling the world studying ancient cultures and mythology and developing a system of magical practice based largely upon medieval renaissance magic, sometimes called 'old system magic', working with the grimoire of Solomon the King, the Heptameron of Peter de Abano, and the Sepher Raziel, or the book of the Angel Raziel.

He achieved great success through these grimoires, and from these spirits learned about as yet secret methods of divination and evocation in order to develope his own grimoire. Utilizing these lessons as well as his extensive knowledge of the occult traditions of ancient Middle Eastern, Gaelic, Norse, and Hindu Cultures, he developed a unique system of spiritualism and binding that has granted him a long and happy life.

Now, as he feels he is preparing to leave this world, he has decided to produce a limited number of magical items, the bulk of his personal collection being left to his students and relatives, in order that others may benefit from his experiences. All proceeds will likewise be left to his students in the hopes of creating a private foundation for the promotion and education of the occult arts for later students of this unique lineage.

The item below, as well as each piece now nearing completion, is made of quality high grade pewter, set with a stone appropriate to the entity associated with it. Along with the item, the buyer will recieve instructions for dealing with the entity, including it's occult history and rituals specific to it's nature.

It must be understood that these entities are powerful, objective spiritual beings that must be approached with respect. All instructions included with the item must be followed to the letter. As a safety precaution in the rare case that an entity does get out of hand - which will not happen as long as the instructions are regarded with seriousness - banishing rituals specific to the entity will be included as well. These banishings do not remove the entity from the object, as they are constrained to be bound permanently regardless of any intervention short of the efforts of an experienced occultist trained in the art of spirit evocation and binding. Also included is a separation ritual to sever the buyer's personal connection to the entity in the event that this becomes the buyer's wish. The entities are bound to the item, and constrained to serve the recipient upon the performance of the included ritual. Once this ritual is performed the entity is bound to yourself and yourself alone - it cannot be loaned out, resold, or given away, even if the separation ritual is performed. After that point, only a trained occultist familiar with that class of entity will have any use for it.

Therefore, consider carefully the following information before bidding on this item. While these spirits can be powerful allies for the rest of your life, they are a responsibility. Some entities need only to be in your presence once a day, some others require regular oblations - which will be described in brief with each item, and detailed specifically in the aforementioned carepackage that will accompany the item. While it is to be understood that the entity is yours, and is constrained to serve the recipient always to the best of its ability, mistreatment or frivolous regard can create complications that the buyer is cautioned to avoid. So it cannot be stressed enough - follow the instructions included with the Item.

The item below is a handmade ring made of high grade pewter, an all purpose magical metal because of it's mixed natures, set with a red garnet. To it is bound an Amir Djinn under the rulership of Al-Ahmar, the ruling Djinn associated with Mars. It is said in the Q'uran, the holy book of the muslim faith, and in the oral traditions that predate Islam in the middle east, that the Djinn were beings created on earth before mankind, but went terribly wrong. Be means of punishment the Djinn were banished to the world between heaven and earth. Their existence is similar to ours in that they procreate, sustain themselves, and have a loose heirarchy among themselves that we on earth only vaguely understand - even in ancient times, else that knowledge has long since been lost. to my knowledge it does not say this in the q'uran

Also as part of their punishment, the Djinn were constrained by the Creator to serve mankind forever. Having free will, the Djinn interpret this duty differently in each of their spiritual cultures - some Djinn we see as evil, when in reality they are testing and challenging us that we may grow spiritually and intellectually, while other Djinn we see as good, and these are those who simply assist us whether by guiding out intuition, speaking to us in dreams, or otherwise helping us further ourselves in some way. or this

As with all other creatures of creation, from humans and animals, up to the spiritual heirarchies of the Angels and the infernal populations of the Demons, the Djinn are classified in occult traditions in the middle east according to the Planets of Ancient Astrology. The Djinn associated with Mars are capable of directly affecting battles, willpower, the survival instincts, and elemental fire. that's inferrence based on known mythology

All djinn have names, and knowing that name is to have power over it. I do not know the name of your Djinn, although the Seller himself does and will include this name with your item, which will be packaged by him. This will be the name that you use to contact and bind the Djinn into service. In addition, over time, it may offer you a nickname, depending on it's personality. This will only happen if the Djinn feels that you are a respectful master. While it is in the nature of the Djinn to only grudgingly give service to humanity, they are none the less constrained to do so. The futher bindings placed on this particular Djinn by the Seller constrain it to serve the recipient in their every desire, permitted it is within its power. That said, I personally have found that the nature of a Djinn is individual, and they will respect some more than others, being more forthcoming and to a degree, even friendly. The Seller's experience and expertise agrees with this. I have no such experience.

Let me stress this again - despite what some New Age dillettantes may popularize, a Djinn is not your friend. While some are more amiable than others, and while it is their commandment by the creator to serve mankind, they will take every opportunity to cause mischief. This particular Djinn has been constrained by the Seller in such a way that it cannot willfully bring harm to its master, but you must still fully consider what you are asking for when commanding this powerful spirit. far as I can tell that one's true

This Djinn can help its master to be victorious in battle, to gain confidence, to protect it's master from enemies and as importantly, from the aggressions of other Djinn - who, it is believed in the Islamic Faith, are responsible for much of man's suffering - and can give its master psychic and spiritual strength. If the instructions for the rituals to deal with this Djinn are followed, it will not only carry out it's master's wishes, but can teach its master about any subject of knowledge ascribed to the sphere of mars. For the student of magic, this Djinn will make an excellent familiar spirit who can advise its master on how to conquer any particular problem or mystery he or she encounters.

This ring is the culmination of four months of work. Binding a Djinn is a process of petitioning the Ruling Djinn of a particular sphere to command one of his subordinates to attend the Magician and then in turn this Subordinate is constrained to deliver to the Magician an 'amiable Djinn' who will serve the magician as it was commanded by the Creator. In this way a Djinn works off its spiritual debt - something like Karma - by serving faithfully the will of the Creator.

In addition to the proper rituals and their extensive preparation, the magician himself must commit to a period of purification, regardless of his experience or ability. So, much work and preperation went into this item, and the Buyer is asked to respect that work and likewise respect the Item. Procuring the physical root which the Djinn is to inhabit is the most trivial part of the process.

Included with this Item are the following:
1. The Name of the Djinn, in a sealed envelope seperate from the item and all other documents; it was written and sealed by the Seller himself, and has not been seen by any other person.
2. A document detailing the ritual of binding; it's instructions are to be followed to the letter, no shortcuts, no alterations. The spirit is constrained to respond to this specific ritual.
3. A seal made by the Seller as a component to the Ritual Binding.
4. A document detailing the oblation to be performed regularly; the purpose of the oblation is to invoke the power of the Creator to strengthen your Djinn on your behalf, and to improve your connection and communication with the Djinn.
5. A starter pack of the herbs and incense to be used for the oblations. After these are exhausted, they will need to be replaced by the buyer. Included in the document on the oblation is a ritual purification for these ingredients; while those included have been so purified by the Seller, the recipient should perform them personally as well.
6. Finally, a document detailing rituals to task the Djinn with a variety of commands - the Djinn is constrained to follow the commands of it's Master, within the limits of it's power, which will increase over time with the performance of regular oblations. These rituals are not set in stone, but are a resource for the inexperienced Recipient, and can be performed as they are, or adapted to suit them. Included amongst these rituals are the banishing and severing rituals, which are the exception to this - they must be performed as indicated.

Be forewarned, that some of these rituals require some period of purification on the part of the individual performing them. These purification rites must be carried out by the recipient in order to give those specific rituals efficacy. This may include a period of fasting in the range of one to three days, ritual salt baths, and or daily rituals to be performed for some time prior to those specific rituals. As noted before, these requirements must be met to the letter - rest assured, no physical harm to the recipient is indicated in any of these requirements.

The manifestation of the Djinn can range from noises around the house, odd sensations on the skin or within the body, and other subtle nuances, to phantom lights, wisps of 'smoke' or 'mist' coming from seemingly no where, flickering shadows, and the presence of the Djinn in dreams. How the Djinn will communicate will largely be a matter of the dynamic between its master and itself - there is no hard and fast rule, only general tendencies in this kind of spirit. Again, it is constrained in such a way that its manifestation will bring no harm to the recipient or any other person except at the behest of its Master - and it must be remember that the Djinn is only a servant; its actions are the responsibility of its Master, who assumes all karmic responsibility for any negative acts the Djinn is commanded to do.

Most Sincerely,
Frater L.D.O.A.

************************************************************************

Sounds convincing, doesn't it? Even if you've got a bit of occult theory under your belt. Because this stuff is easy to convincingly fabricate - between the average individual's ignorance of the subject beyond their immediate interest, and the mesmerizing effect of certain concepts and 'buzz words', with a dash of pop-occult lingo; well, anyone who wants to believe they can have their own djinn-in-a-trinket, will be sold. I saw rings going for $500+ - which looked as gaudy as the ring I sold. Aforementioned in this very thread was some trinket sold for, what, $2,500? If I were a less scrupulous individual I could make a killing! The turn-around is phenomenal, right? And the customer convinces their own self of the experience - concocting an ad is the the most work you have to go to, that and hunting down a convincing peace at a consignment shop.

Just to get the full picture, here are the e-mails we exchanged - it's brief:

*******************************************************************************

(upon receiving the item, that very day [apparently she was eager to try out the ritual, I'll post those below as well])

dear frater LDOA
please give my thanks to your seller, I am absolutely astounded by the item you sent. i knew it was here this morning, and could already sort of feel the djinn on its way, i'm sure you know what i mean. after doing the binding ritual included in the package, i could sense the connection to the djinn and it immediately gave me a nickname, because the name included in the package gives it pain? It nickname, it said, is Saranj, which it said I could tell people as long as I kept its true name secret. it even appeared as a flickering light in the corner of my eye a few hours later after the ritual, at first I didn't know if it was my djinn but when i asked about it he explained that this was how he preferred to manifest because of his firey nature. for some personal reasons I asked for him to give me confidence for a situation i am dealing with right now, and almost immediately i felt a sense of calm purpose come over me almost like i knew i was capable of anything. it is really an amazing experience. please give my thanks to the seller for allowing me to have such an enormos honor i will be sure to take good care of them and follow all directions exactly as given. she didn't, the ritual of binding required three days of preperation

love and light
###########

********************************************************************************


I wrote back...

Dear ##########

First let me assure you that by the time you have read this I will have fully refunded the money from your purchase to the paypal account you paid me from. Second, allow me to let you know that you can keep the ring you received. You're not going to appreciate what I have to say much, and you may be angry, but allow me to explain.

Recently I got into a conversation about sellers of these trinkets with various spirits associated with them, sites such as creepyhollows.com for instance if you'd like to take a look (you may be familiar already) and compare on the subject, and why most of us believe them to be basically scams. Now, while this might not have been your first purchase of this kind, I assure you it was never my intention to scam you out of your money. Rather, I wanted to collect, shall I say, a bit of research on this matter. It seemed to me that if I sold a piece of jewelry to an individual, and they reported to me that they could not sense, contact, or otherwise rouse any kind of spiritual presence from the item, then there was a chance that there might be some truth to this practice. I reasoned likewise that if the recipient did report some kind of experience with the suggested entity, then that was essentially a mark against this particular practice or business for obvious reasons.

Let me apologize again, but also explain that I feel this kind of occult scamming is damaging to a community that, in all honesty, I take quite seriously. There are most certainly such things as Djinn, Angels, Demons, and a variety of other spiritual, non-physical entities, and they most assuredly can be dealt with in various ways, typically in the practice of invocation or evocation by those knowledgeable in the such occult fields. However, the processes involved in producing such items as are so often sold frivolously are arduous, taxing, and dangerous to the practitioner in most cases. So the likelihood that such an item can be casually bought online is, well, trying on one's sense of reason and logic, especially, or even, in light of some genuine occult education on the matter.

All of that said, any emotional and spiritual feelings you probably did genuinely experience arose most likely from the ritual setting - and such involvement is a key component in magical practice and experience. However, it can be very, very easy to have such an emotional sensation, even a spiritual sensation, and misconstrue it for a genuine magical experience. While I promise I was not trying to 'teach you a lesson' or anything of the sort, you may not be remiss to keep it in mind in the future.

Again, let me offer my sincere apologies for this situation, if there are any problems with the refund, please let me know and I will absolutely work them out and make sure that you receive your money as soon as possible.

If you'd like to vent at me, I deserve it, and will take it with humility. I could understand if you are outraged at this scam, but to be honest I really would rather not deal with the possible legal consequences, of which I'm not sure there even are any. This is not something I am making any kind of habit of, but simply had to understand a little more in depth.

My sincere apologies for the deception, again.

Peace
Brian

********************************************************************************

*

I have not heard back from her as yet, I sold and shipped the item on sunday, recieved a reply on wednesday, and replied to her just today. Was she particularly gullible? Perhaps. Perhaps she simply had the same fervent hope to have this spiritual experience with an otherworldly entity that anyone interested in buying these items probably is.

Just for reference, here is the binding ritual I included with the package. It was handwritten on parchment for effect. It was my belief that the more 'arcane' imagery is involved, the more likely it is the individual receiving such an item will become worked up, psychologically, to the point that they manifest an experience - that, or they're lying about the experience in a sort of 'emperors new cloths' sort of complex. I inlcuded a pack of sea salt, ground basil, and 'mars oil' containing who knows what, picked it up at a local new-age shop. The ring was wrapped in red silk - real silk, I got tons of fabric laying around.

********************************************************************************

*

this is the binding ritual, slightly paraphrased as I handwrote it originally rather than typing it, and, well, I'm not selling anything to you guys.

The Ritual Of Binding

In preparation for the binding ritual, it is necessary to fast for three days. You may eat bread and raw vegetables before and after sunset, and only water during the daylight hours. Oats of some kind are acceptable the first day, the second day should be only bread and vegetables, the third and final day should be bread alone. I felt this was fairly responsible, most people can deal with such a fast as light as this for three days.

During the fast, not before, obtain two white candles. Anoint them with the oil included in the package, and sprinkle them with the ground herbs (the herbs will adhere to the oil) also included. While doing the anointing of the candles, speak this prayer once. You should read it a few times before hand and commit it to memory. Focus on the words as you speak them.

"Thee I anoint with holy oils, and with the sacred herb of the sphere of mars.
Let the Divine Glory of the Light of Creation be shed upon the from on high,
To Purify and Sactify this holy work."

After anointing the candles thus, keep them away in a private place until the moment of the binding.

When it is time to perform the ritual, find a private space and pour the sea salt included in the package in a circle, counterclockwise starting from a point towards the east. Place the ring in the center on the silk square it was packaged in. Ideally this should be the first moment that the ring is unwrapped from this silk. Place the candles to either side, the north and south respectively, touching the outside of the circle.

When all is prepared, sit at the western quarter, facing east, and with palms resting face up, close your eyes, tilt your head towards the heavens, and speak this prayer with solemnity and fervor. You must memorize this prayer, it is fairly short.

"Oh Divine Creator,
Lord over all created Things,
Sanctify and Bless this creature of Smokeless Fire,
And Let him be Bound for all time to the Divinity that is within me, thy child.
Let us be entwined as lovers,
Let us be joined in the blood, as Siblings of the Flesh,
Let us be known to one another as thy All Knowing Love,
Which doth see all things, and know them by name.

Thee I call forth, Oh creature of Smokeless Fire,
Oh Djinn of the sphere of Mars,
Oh faithful servant of Al-Ahmar,
He who Rules thy Brethren in the Sphere of Mars,
And in the Red Heavens thereof.
Come forth by the will of thy Lord,
And of the Will of the God of Creation,
That Divine Law and Will
Which governeth all things in their places,
And Formed thee from the Eternal Fire
At the Dawn of All things.

Come to me, Al-Abdhiraj,
Come by the will of the Divine,
Come by the will of he who did Bind thee into Service,
Come and receive Divine Favor,
Come and Serve Thy Master,
And Thy God through the same."

After this sit in meditation, you may pick up and hold the ring close to your chest and quiet your thoughts, allowing the feeling of it to pass into and connect in a subtle way the heart center. Like a subtle warmth and a gentle pulsing. Open your heart, and invite the Djinn silently to introduce itself. If you are friendly towards it, and promise that you will be a beneficent master, and wise, then it will give you a name to call it by other than the name which it is bound by. This is perfectly fine, it is already constrained to obey your commands regardless what name you call it.

It may take some time to communicate, it may not - it depends on the individual. If you remain patient and open, it will happen in time.

Blessings,
Frater Albus I know, I know...

********************************************************************************

**

The point, again, is this. The majority of the population is extremely subject to self-delusion, especially with the right kind of suggestive influence. Playing on all the right fears or hopes, you can sell anything, no matter how ludicrous it sounds, and for the people on the receiving end - they will believe it! Even after they actually get it and should be getting some kind of result. They'll ascribe every phenomenon, every slight change in circumstances, to the presence of this new 'spirit'.

Just because you get feedback, just because you have a following, just because there is a forum where people discuss their successes - joined the forum, BTW, bunch of crazies if you ask me, just my objective opinion after having read some of what these people had to say, reeked of new-age garbage top to bottom as if the site itself didn't - does not mean there is anything going on beyond the feeble manifestations of the individual's bred and fed hopes and dreams, hopped up on faith and a flexible world-view.

And just because a person is slightly versed in occultism doesn't mean they are safeguarded against these things - I used basic elements of western occultism specifically to alert the intellectual nature of some potential buyers who might be somewhat educated about occult vogue in the past hundred years. The point about this is - you cannot trust what you read on a website, magazine article, etc., much less what you hear from a person on the phone or even face to face, about such things.

As a kind of disclaimer - what I did was extremely unethical, but I simply had to know for sure, and there was no way to do that except to control the experiment myself. Rest assured I did not scam this lady out of her money, I gave it back immediately upon hearing from her the first time, before I even e-mailed her back. I may hear back from her yet, and when/if I do i'll post her response here if it seems to shed any extra insight into the experiment. I do not suggest that anyone repeat this experiment. It's quite simply wrong to take people's money in this fashion, even if they are ignorant and/or naive enough to give it to you. If you think that kind of dishonesty won't affect your magical practice, think again. If you can lie to others you can lie to yourself, and your subconscious doesn't need expressly written permission to lie - just the example that you are okay with it.

This may not settle the matter, but by my reckoning at least, well.... it does kind of sway my opinion farther towards (if one could consider it any less in this direction) the 'BS' category somewhat conclusively. Although, perhaps a wider study is needed, to be fair. This one particular individual might have just been, as I mentioned before, particularly gullible. She did buy a Djinn off of ebay after all.

peace

Vagrant: this incident not only proves (what I see) as a fundamental truth about human nature, but that you're a decent person and you're honest. Like you said, you could have just collected the $300 and passed go.

Frankly I don't trust any stories about manifestations, spirit messages, etc. unless I know the person/s involved *really* well or unless I experience the phenomenon firsthand. That's not to say these things don't happen--having lived in haunted houses before and coming from a family where Weird Shit Happens I know all too well they do. I've just seen way too many people that are like you said--willing to delude themselves over the smallest little thing. Why this is I don't know, maybe they want to believe, maybe they don't want responsibility for their own actions, maybe they don't have or never were taught critical thinking skills, I don't know. *shrug* Your guess is as good as mine.

This having been said, I know from experience djinn/spirits/etc. are out there. Some are friendly, some are hostile, some are indifferent, and a lot of them are as oblivious to our existence as we are to theirs. I'd much rather summon one within the confines of a triangle, interview it, politely command it to do what I need, and then let it go than to imprison it into something and continually coerce it into doing what I need. Forcing any form of conscious entity to perform tasks at gunpoint is only efficient over the short term.

My $5...

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Feb 29 2008, 02:01 AM

A lot of people seem to have done just that. A quick search in "completed items" on Ebay turns up 157 results for "Djinn Ring" and they seem to be selling for anywhere from $30 to $300. Most are listed as "haunted." Item #170196067361, the "Haunted Warlock Elite Master Eye Ring Jinn Je Mnoi Di" is probably the most absurd listing I have ever seen, capping out at $202.50. I can hardly believe Ebay will let this sort of thing be sold at all, given the bogus sales pitch and the ghostly vapors in the pictures.

Got an old car or some of granny's bric a brac? Juice it up, add some ghosts, and now it's marketable!

I must say that the ritual etc might even accidently have conjured some form of toughtform or similar being so her sensations might have been genuine and not only her own imagination and self deception. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thou i know 99.9% of this kind of busniess is scam heh thats all folks bye

Hi all,

you know sometimes i wonder if the whole spirit concept were not only a sort of method that our own mind uses to accomplish feats in the astral and thus in the real world.

I wonder if the mind itself creates a heaven for the person when death occurs... Who can say for sure the limit of the mind..

I read that once a woman child had gone under a car that was held by the levers but on the point of crashin on the ground, when in a sort of panick the woman held the side of the car and got enough power to lift that until the child comes out from under the car.. its something similar to that and was talked about for somedays..



like for the woman who bought the ring, may be like the placebo effect of certain medications, that could have been a sort of placebo.. to know if ultimately the ring did what it was supposed to do, even if fake, did the mind of that woman not itself create the 'reality' of the ring spirit and eventually do what she wanted....



I guess there are also other threads talking of the powers of the mind and if the spiritual world was not only a tool of the mind itself.... everyone knows that to talk to spirits one had to enter to deeper phases of the mind in relaxation and semi meditative mode....

Hmm, my post...where did it go? Oh well, time to retype..

Small spirits can reside within objects - they won't spend much time within the object though. Otherwise for a more powerful creature, you can create a connection to a particular spirit with an object, for an easier time finding them although if they don't want to be found it won't help much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'm not sure what the Djinn do exactly or why someone would want a ring with 9 of them. Wouldn't you already need to understand spirit communication and have experience working with spirits first? Most don't have that skill at the time of purchase i'd assume. Also It would be rather dangerous to start contacting random spirits.

What if I were placing little demons in stones and selling them to the ignorant? Even the weakest demons, the ones that you can pull out of the universe with intent can have enough skill to trick someone with the guise of a powerful "good" energy cover.


In closing - know whom you buy from, and get to know how he/she works and talk about the intended purchase before hand.

This post has been edited by Star: Mar 1 2008, 04:49 PM

I go back and forth on this idea. I think there was a post made somewhere else on the forum about this very subject. I believe that both sides of the subject matter are true, though paradoxical - spirits are both expressions of our consciousness (ultimately divine consciousness), and independant, objective beings. Just as we are but expressions of the Divine Source, subjective and subject unto that source, we are also objective to ourselves. There is no reason why those entities are not the same - subjective to one part of existence, objective to themselves and another part.

The more experience I have with various spirits, the more I am inclined to see them as objective entities. That doesn't change the fact that we're all united by the same essential fabric of consciousness - a fabric that is unified and yet apportioned, and with portions that are mutually reciprocal. We create eachother.



This was brought up almost exactly in a conversation with a friend on this particular subject.

I believe not just anyone will cause this to happen, but it's possible. And with a sufficiently constructed ritual, plus the individuals own state of mind, emotions, and of course their apprehension of the laws that make such things possible, it's even probable. In many cases this may be what is actually happening with some of these people who get their 'entities' and who then have experiences with them. The abilities of those thoughtforms to actually carry out their tasks, however, will be limited to the capability of the individual, subject to any kind of charging - effective, charging - rituals then carried out.

However, what's the difference between a thoughtform and an imaginary friend? Very, very little. I'd wager the average child's imaginary friend - with a child's raw emotion, vivid imagination, and the unstructured, as yet free and totally creative mind - is, in fact, even more 'real' than at least a beginning magician's construct. But, does it accomplish things for the child? A child probably doesn't think to ask. None the less, the basic premise behind both remains the same.

Here's my big problem with these sites that sell these 'spirits'. If I was speaking with a person who appeared to have a sufficient level of understanding, experience, and raw knowledge of various spirits, their workings, the procedures for summoning them, then I would accept that he may be capable of binding a spirit to an object, and giving that object to someone, or selling it, such that the person might be able to benefit from that spirit.

Such a person will talk about demons, about angels perhaps, though unlikely, and perhaps djinn, elementaries, planetaries, etc.

He will not talk about unicorns, nymphos, gargoyles, vampires, faeries, and the souls of departed famous people, among the list of entities he can or may conjure and so bind. Point me to any literature detailing the procedures regarding the summoning and binding of these entities - point me to the proof of their existence, efficacy, and presence in occult history beyond various cultural mythology. You'll be hard pressed. I certainly was.

Does that mean that these entities cannot be so summoned and bound.........................................

Not strictly. Who knows? Highly unlikely, however, yes very much so. There is an authority that exists by which demons, djinn, and to some extent even angels can be constrained and bound to give their services either directly or through proxy. Demons and djinn, according to their respective 'mythologies' are commanded by God to be of service to humanity, in so many words. Angels, of course, serve the interests of God, which are our interests. These other entities, within their mythologies, are so much fauna of the hidden world. The idea that they can be summoned and bound to objects is ridiculous.

Binding the spirits of dead people to objects is necromancy, and is a black art no matter how you cut it. Not the same thing as calling and asking questions.

If they were to stick to demons, djinn, and angels... I would be more easily convinced. But they had to push the boundaries, and come up with more interesting entities, something friendlier and fluffier because a pet demon is not very cuddly.

peace

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif) Vagrant.

Your reply being subjective is very objective too :-)



Hey are there people who have bought stuff like those and had experiences with them?

Looks fake. Magnet under the table or something. You can wash your hands with hot water and walk outside on a cold day. Looks like smoke coming off your hands like magic. Also the vid clips show it already smoking at the very beginning of the clip (pretty suspicious) they are also short clips.

Weren't you you the same persons selling "genies"in the bottles supossidly from tintagle? that was a real crock..Genie couples male and female?? PLEASE!! this sort of thing is what causes a large portion of the realm to thing ALL THINGs of the OCCULT are hogwash ...Sorry to shoot you down but a Bogie is a bogie! ratatatatatatttt!!! SEE YA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/irvine.gif)

Hi I had a thought while reading all of this; If a gullible person with no spiritual senses, is so desiring to have a "pet spirit" isn't it possible that a real malignant spirit looking for some poor soul to "thresh like wheat", possibly actually show up at the buyers home and indeed wreak havoc. Or even an "astral nasty" or larvae of some sort? could this account for a very fewcase of the reported "effects" (i'm not refering to a light out of the corner of their eyes or wierd shadow)
I understand whats at work here is pretty much likee "plecebo effect" in Pharmacology; If you belive it 's affecting you, it will/can-(in some people). People even get healed by known fraudulent treatments just because they so believe it to be working(btw which is a good thing to be healed regardless of how)
I've seen this mechanism at work even with something like fake LSD; where people;who had tripped beforeand really wanted to get off, started to trip on plain blotter paper w/some design on it!!
this of course was in the late 70's. Someone bought a sheet it and turned a group on. some did start to get off even with mild halucinations! The more experienced people of course knew within a half hour it was bunk, and after telling them it was bunk, their trip ended abruptly. I just never thought "the Plecebo Effect" would be use in something as rediculous as "pet spirits" or genies in a bottle!!
Just a thought from the Lightning Storm
Ps that was one hell of an experiment Vagrant, thanks for taking time to share all of that with us...
Peace and Light

The story's on ebay get me all the time with bursts of "LOL" ex: "I come from a long line of witches and we are so awesome blah blah blah"
I have some actual items and such I could sell on ebay but I just don't want to be associated with the magickal farce aggregation associated with the metaphysical section of ebay. Like a lot of things that I'm done with I just throw them at my student or friends. I am told on several occasions that "You would make this stuff and sell it!" I've been told that about my wands, potions, amulets, rings, spells etc. O_O but I need another server to sell it other than ebay.

I wish I could have seen the vid. I get a message that it is not there anymore.

I posted a picture of and entity coming out of Max. Max is a crystal skull. The picture is real. It was taken March of '07 with a low res camera. I have seen other vids of spirits dancing on their crystals. Djinn who knows. But is is very possible that the vid was real.

Interesting

Krell

First off, I hope no-one finds this too funny, but here goes.

About a year ago I purchased a Demon Succubus haunted ring from Ebay (Believing it a joke, myself being an atheist at the time).

I received a cheap ring a simple ritual to state and box to keep the ring in when not wearing it.

Well here is what I experienced:
1. If I asked the Demon to give me an erection, Bobs your uncle I would have one and very quickly might I add.
2. I started being able to orgasm 5 + times a day.
3. I started to have a backache.
4. I had to pee a lot.
5. One night I was awoken with a feeling of fear from a loud knocking (Not sure if it was in my mind or not).
6. I was grumpy a lot of the time.
7. My finger curled around the ring a lot.
8. I could feel a sort of "electricity" from the ring.
9. At least one synchronicity occurred. A neighbor (who I had never had even a drink with) won a pair or concert tickets and invited me. After the concert he realized that their was an after party that he and I where invited to as well. This party was filled with a lot of single highly attractive quite temping females. When I was single I found myself in these situations, however after being married life changes and these sorts of experiences no longer present themselves, so it was quite weird especially after only having the ring 4 weeks.
10. I also paid a different person to move said spirit from one ring to another. Which also seemed to work (Since now I had the old ring and the new ring I could test out if the spirit would give me an erection (Only the new ring worked for this task).

Now since that time I have:
1. Returned the ring. (All weird and wacky stuff has ceased)
2. Started reading everything I can get my hands on relating to the occult etc. (Which is what brought my to this site to read up if you will)
3. Started to work with energy or at least my perception of it
4. Started to mediate and slowly working through the Bardon's Hermetic training.

Now I cannot say for certain if I was experiencing self induced hallucinations (Incited by sex and fear) or something else, but then I don't see any difference between that sort of experience and other experiences driven from drugs (Which I don't use) or ritual magic etc.

So, for me it was an enlightening experience. I found out at a minimum that either "A" there is more to the universe then I new about before hand or "B" I am able to hallucinate/perceive the universe differently in certain situations. Either way pretty cool, and that is how I was initiated into the study of the occult (By purchasing a Cheap haunted ring from Ebay) Sad I know.


P.S. I did not buy the ring from creepyhollows so I cannot comment on them one way or the other. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/00000008.gif)