Enochian magick is one of the flag ship magical systems since it was received via Dee and Kelly. Currently there is more enochian material published and available than at any point in history, with more titles constantly coming out. Here at SM we are proud of our diverse forum options and experienced members, although I have noticed our enochian forum has lagged lately.

I am calling for any and all enochian magicians we may have on these boards, people studying the system, using it, and people who are old hat at it, to come and begin discussions here and try and revive this forum.

Move, therefore, and show yourselves!

I wonder what some of you more experienced practitioners think of the idea of Letter Essences for the enochian alphabet? There's a website regarding the theory here: Angelic Letter Essences.

Now, I'm just beginning my study of enochian, I haven't even thought of practicing it yet, but while looking for texts on the subject I ran across this page, and it struck a chord because of my experience with the Hebrew Aleph-Bet, and because of my experience with some of the higher classes of entities that I've dealt with. It seems that the 'closer' they are to materiality, the more they communicate "verbally", but many of the 'farther' entities have always communicated with concepts that would have been difficult to put into words.

So enter the Letter Essences. Now, it may not be a new concept - I haven't gotten all that far in enochian, mostly right now I'm just studying the tablets and memorizing calls - but it was the first time I encountered it. You certainly can't believe everything you read on the internet, but I always felt that mystical languages should speak magically, rather than in the mundane language sense of discrete letters having little or no meaning in and of themselves. Only a purely material language should work that way, it seems to me, because sound itself is more significant than that.

However, at this point I don't know enough about the system as a whole to properly evaluate the validity of this theory. Any thoughts?

peace

I am just beginning to delve into the sub-angles of the tablets but I am very interested in finding out just what exactly those spirits can actually do. I am a engineer by profession so I am attracted to the earth sub-angles which deal with the mechanical arts. I am fully planning to see if they can help me advance my career with knowledge and applications and possible new patients etc. I have no idea if they can do this or not, but the possibility is exciting and I am going to find out.

I haven't been on SM for a while, but just thought I'd say "I'm in" for discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly with Fio in regard to the Letters. Skrying them is one of the best and "easiest" preliminary works.

In relation to the sub-angles and their uses as given by Ave to Dee, I haven't explored them in their literal form. I mainly use the system for spiritual means, but I'd love to hear what others find using them "as given".

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

I'm in too. Enochian is pretty much the only system that has made me feel at home from the beginning.
It has a feeling of purity and straight forwardness that I like.

I haven´t done anything else but scryed a part of the alphabet (been slacking off lately).

One thing that interest me is that has anyone used the Calls for a specific purpose in the system?
(Not as a part of some other system).

You mean other than keys to open the tablets or conjurations to call the spirits? That is how I have used them. Not sure how else to do it.

I would advise anyone who is interested in Enochian Magick to proceed *SLOWLY* as it is extremely powerful. Don't let anyone fool you -- there are very few "safeguards" to Enochian practice. You can do LBRP's and Qabalistic Crosses all day long and still get your head blown off. Take it from someone who is a longtime practitioner; be very careful with the Calls, and with any kind of communication with the "Angels." Don't attempt anything like this until you are absolutely confident that you have done all that you can to prepare yourself for the experience.



There are other systems for "Angelic" communication -- such as A Treatise on Angel Magic, by Dr. Thomas Rudd (from the end of the 17th century). However, use of any system like this comes with the same caveat -- proceed *SLOWLY.*



I'm open for any discussion on these matters.



For a Peace Profound.

i wonder if any of you has heard of an angrelic magician from spain called orion de lacruz, i've heard he is one of the experts on the topic

Yes, I have heard of Orion de LaCruz; in fact, I have spoken to him on a couple of occasions. That was about 3 or 4 years ago, however.

I have been involved in Angelic Magick for the past 10 years, and it is not a very large community. If any Angelic Magickian has access to the internet, I've probably spoken to him / her.

Peace.

Neshamah

This post has been edited by Neshamah: Jul 26 2008, 07:12 PM

interesting indeed, well than i need to talk to you more often than brother, I need orientation on this type of magick, most of my magick life ive been into shamanism, but know i wish to learn about angelic magick, its very familiar to the use of spirits as allies in shamanism

If I understand your questions in the previous post, you ask:

1. You want to know about the "promises" the "Angels" made to Dee and Kelley about the riches they would uncover.


2. You want to know what kinds of activities "Angels" are used to performing in a typical session with them.


3. You want to know why I warn people (to proceed *SLOWLY*) concerning Enochian Magick, and what are the inherent dangers.

I believe this is right, if I have missed one or misunderstood one, please let me know.

1. I put this in another post, however, I'm not sure if it was this forum or another; anyway, it is my belief that the "Angels" were using Dee and Kelley. They (the "Angels") promised them that Great Britain would rule the world (which did happen for a time) and that Dee and Kelley would get incredibly rich from the mountains of ore that the "Angels" told them they'd find for them. The purpose of this ruse (on the "Angels'" part) was to keep Dee and Kelley coming back until the entire System of the Language, the Watchtowers, and the Aethyrs was delivered.

As I said in my earlier post, if the "Angels" did mislead Dee and Kelley, do you have any assurances that they won't mislead YOU? And, do you still want to work with them?

Allow me to continue for just a moment longer; the Golden Dawn's system of Enochian is a hodge-podge based on a set of tables that are actually erroneous (or are they?). The game of Enochian Chess was invented because they really didn't have a clue as to what to do with the remarkable Tablets and means of reading them that they had inherited.

Others have attempted the same thing. The Aurum Solis has another system which differs dramatically from the G.D.'s. The shortlived OSDL had a system based on "revelation" given to them by the "Angel" Momao (and others).

2. I'll speak for my own experience with the "Angels" since I am most familiar with the way they interracted with me. The "Angel" HIPOTGA (Hee-Poh-Tay-Gah) Sixth Senior of Air (representing the Air of Saturn) was an "Angel" that spoke often with me (coincidentally, my Ascendant is Libra, an Air sign, and the planet Saturn is less than 4 degrees from being exactly conjunct). He answered my questions and passed along information to me from his "Superiors." This information was usually of a mundane natuire, such as how to administer the Order (OSDL) I was in at the time. Occasionally, I was given information of more import, such as a "new teaching" (i.e., a New Grade Structure for the group, etc.). There were several times (more than I can remember) that the "Angels" told us something that I had NO WAY of knowing -- such as a near-death accident that I was barely able to avoid.

Of course, this could have been our own Inner Selves doing all the communicating using the myths of the "Angels" because it was convenient. I'm not sure what your particvular mind-set is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/juggle.gif)

3. In another post I mention an Enochian Operation in which I was involved that resulted in my being hospitalized with a mental and physical breakdown. The physicians told me I had a "break" due to my complete mental and physical exhaustion. I had been preparing for this "Operation" for several weeks and had placed my body and my mind in an acute state of awareness that had "over-loaded" my senses, etc. (this was the doctor's hypothesis). They placed me on the "appropriate" medications and I got "better" in a couple of months. In all, it took me almost 10 months to get back to "myself."

I warn people about Enochian Magick because there are no safeguards, as there is with such systems as the Golden Dawn, the Aurum Solis, AMORC, etc. Operating without safeguards may seem exciting and adventurous, but it can lead to serious complications (as my experience is evidence).

I hope I've answered your questions thus far. I'm sure you have others. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/00000002.gif)

Light, Life, and Love.


Neshamah

This post has been edited by Neshamah: Jul 27 2008, 09:14 PM

I thoght I was answering questions for someone who was seeking MY answers (based on my own experiences). I didn't realize I was speaking to a "debunker," who isn't interested in answers from anyone and is more interested in expressing his / her own opinions on the subject. I know you have said before, ",,,I would love to see new alloys, medicines, and other materials discovered by magicians." For most of us who are into magick (which I have been for longer than you have been on this planet) we do so for spiritual reasons, not material (or, physical).

I still stand by what I said regarding Enochian magick; I will also state that I am of fairly good health (7 years after my motorcycle accident) and pretty good state of mind. My abiltity to "cope" has been tested many, many times, and I do quite well under pressure. I found your post to be rude and impolite, and will not respond to your posts from here on out (arguments ad hominem are the most impertinent kind).

Light, Life, and Love.



Neshamah

This post has been edited by Neshamah: Jul 28 2008, 06:51 PM

All right. For the others in this forum, I will respond to a couple of your "questions."

I never said I knew everyone involved in Enochian magick. What I said, tongue in cheek, was that if they had internet access I'd probably talked to them. I have been on the internet since 1984 (how old were you then?) and have been talking about magick all of that time. If I misled anyone into thinking that I've talked to everyone involved in Enochian magick, I apologize; that was not my intent.

Secondly, I will ask you a question: Have you ever taken LSD or eaten peyote cactus or psyllocibin mushrooms? If you have then you might be able to understand the type of experience I had September 30 - October 1, 2007. It was as if I had gotten "stuck" in astral and was unable to find my way out. It might be compared to a "bad trip," if you are familiar with that term. I assure you, however, that I had not taken any entheogens or hallucinogenics of any kind. I have been involved in astral work since the 1982 and have never had an experience like this before that incident or after. I will not discuss what occurred during those hours I was 'out to lunch' in astral, but after coming out of it I was weak and feverish. My wife took me to the doctor and the rest is ... as they say ...

What happened to me was a result of the powerful forces I unleashed over the period of a week of workings (September 24 thru October 1 -- that was the plan, anyway). It was a BABALON working of my own devising, which involved the skrying of eight different Aethyrs (you can read all about the planned working on my blog). As I stated earlier, I have been involved in Ceremonial magick for over 30 years, as a member of several different orders, and have learned all about ritual banishings and proper clearing of ritual space (and proper preparation of the vehicle -- though I was exhausted from the previous 7 days of magickal operations).

I took offense to your insinuation that I have an "inability to cope." I have been through a lot in my life, a veteran of the Viet-Nam era, an ordained minister (Lutheran), a data center manager and systems engineer (not all at the same time), and I have coped admirably through all this (not one time was I hospitalized for mental illness). The BABALON working, however, was quite unsettling; at least I didn't blow up my house (like Jack Parsons).

That is all I'm saying on this subject. Let's all talk about something else.

Light, Life, and Love


Neshamah

This post has been edited by Neshamah: Jul 28 2008, 08:39 PM

Anyone truly interested in studying and / or working with Angels should definitely read the following two books:

A Treatise on Angel Magic
Magnum Opus Hermetic Sourceworks
Adam McLean, Editor
Weiser Books, 2006, 225 pages


Practical Angel Magic of Dr. John Dee's Enochian Tables
Tabularum Bonorum Angelorum Invocationes
Steven Skinner & David Rankine
Golden Hoard Press, 2004, 295 pages

These two books are essential for anyone wishing to explore Angelic Magic in depth. The first one I've mentioned before; it is an excellent look at another system of Angelic Magic (as distinct from Enochian). It also gives a brief examination of some of the figures laid out on the Holy Table of Dee and Kelley.

The second book is one of the most extensive books on Enochian Magic I have ever seeen. The book is laid out beautifully, with a highly readable type. Important names are printed in red; tables are clear and plainly described as rarely seen in any book such as this. There are 847 footnotes which are just as legible as the body of the text. In the back of the book (Appendix 4) are 4 Tables of the Kings, Seniors and Angels, laid out according to compass direction (beginning with East). These Tables are very well done. All in all I found very few typos and no blatant mistakes in outlining the placement and "disposition" of the Angels discussed. This is an excellent book; in fact, both books are highly recommended for anyone interested in Angelic Magic(k).

Light, Life, and Love.


Neshamah

This post has been edited by Neshamah: Jul 30 2008, 01:40 PM

As Neshamah mentioned, Enochian is dangerous because it involves an excess of energy (overkill in most operations), is, therefore, difficult to channel, and lacks the safeguards of other systems, such as, for example, the Qabalah. Some things seems to help, such as having the Tablets, Table of Practice, and Sigillum Dei Aemeth. Indeed, it may explain why Dee was given the Heptarchic system first, with all its many tools and regalia, as they do seem to offer some aid in channelling the energies. That doesn't make them fool-proof, however, and most people who've used Enochian for a lenghty period will be able to report that they have been inundated with too much energy, which the astral and physical body simply cannot handle. Thus it is wise to, as Neshamah stated, proceed slowly, to allow the energy to sink in and be assimilated; otherwise you're layering intense energy on top of more intense energy, and eventually it will do damage.

Does this make Enochian more "powerful" or "better" than other systems? No, of course not. In fact, I would even argue that it's a FLAW in the system, as it means it's more difficult to manage, and generally speaking you can get better results with other systems that have better safeguards, such as the Qabalah.

I will disagree with Neshamah's intimation that his age means he is in any way more knowledgeable, better practiced, etc. than anyone else here, Imperial Arts included, although I do know that he has a lot of knowledge and practice under his belt, both with Enochian and other systems.

Dee wanted power, and Kelley wanted wealth, so the Angels tempted them with both. If you read the original accounts, however, you will see plenty of areas where non-physical elements are dealt with, such as the Cacodaemons, which the Angels tell them to bind "within themselves" (paraphrasing), just like we think of our "inner demons". This suggests a psychological aspect, one of perfecting the self by addressing our issues. Also, the Golden Dawn applied the elements to the Tablets, but they did not do so without basis. The element are present in Dee's work, although they seem to be attributed to only one sub-angle of each Tablet, not to the Tablet as a whole.

If you talk to some of the Seniors, they are often impatient when it comes to "worldly" matters. The Servient Angels (using the Golden Dawn term) will "do the dirty work", as it were, as that's their job, and they don't really "think" much, but act more on autopilot, but this ignores all the planetary elements. You mentioned the lack of astrology, but that's not true. In fact, the entire Heptarchic system is based around the planets, and, of course, the Seniors also fulfill this role. The Bonorum are very much less concerned with physical matters than all the Angels on the Watchtowers as a whole.

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

Ave dear Yechidiah,

I agree completely with your post except the one comment that:



I simply made the comment about the internet because of what IA said about me knowing everyone involved in Enochian magick. I was simply trying to say that since I had been on the internet SO long, I probably have talked to them if they have an interest in such subjects. It had nothing to do with my advanced age...

Perhaps I just need to go away into the corner and keep my mouth shut.

Peace.

Neshamah

My comment was in regard to: "For most of us who are into magick (which I have been for longer than you have been on this planet)" and, to a lesser extent: "I have been on the internet since 1984 (how old were you then?)". It's not the mention of how long you has been involved in magick or on the internet (both of which I know for a fact you've been involved with for a LONG time, and this I can never dispute), but the comments directed towards the other person, where you compare your age with theirs.

There is usually no need for such comparison, especially since Imperial Arts has never used Enochian, and you've been using it for at least 5 or 6 years.

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

Excellent assessment and analysis of the Calls, Brother. I particularly agree with you that the Calls should be understood before utilised.

The Calls tend to be only seen in the format given by the Golden Dawn, where they are assigned to the sub-angles, etc. of the Watchtowers. While this is valid, it is not the whole picture. One area that I am still wondering about is the use of the Second Call with the First. I have often used the First Call as a "general invocation", to great effect, and have been guided to do so by the Angels themselves. However, like Benjamin Rowe, I am not so sure that the Second Call should be utilised with the First, or that it necessarily relates to EHNB, as is sometimes suggested. I think using both Calls together is overkill, and causes excessive strain on the magician, as I have experienced, but I would like input from others (including Neshamah) on the use of this Call.

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

I have always liked the way that the Enochian paradigm is put together.

Internal language...

Nifty maps of elemental zones, complete with internally consistent methods for deriving names of resident entities - and displaying their hierarchal and associative relationships with one another...

Dimensional (aethyric) map of cosmic levels...

A roaster of poetic recitations (calls) for focusing awareness and directing consciousness either to invoke or to evoke entities of the Pathway...

Lots of interesting toys!

The only part about it that still rubs my fur the wrong way a bit is the meme that often infests talk about it over the last several decades about it being so dangerous (cue cheesy and spooky warning music). But then, I also realize that sticking the tag line (to the effect) of "You'd better what out! Be careful! Lest the sheer MIGHT and POWER of Enochian unleash unspeakable unspeakables that will gnaw on your toes in the night! bwahahahahaaa" (okay, I'm admittedly overdoing it there, but you know what I mean) has played a huge part in making it pseudo taboo and thus uber popular amongst young angsty "I wanna play with dark fire!" magick workers.