I know that once you've got an mental or etheric projection you can change reality only with you will. But is it possible make it through astral plane?

my old teacher always said 'to change reality, change yourself' - to get it to 'stick' is the hard part, as the current reality is based in time as well as dream - richard bartlett, a chiropractor turned new-age guru, says that to fix stuff you have to 'time-travel' it back to the cause and change it throughout time to get the change to 'stick' - i don't know how he found it out, but i've found that it works and is true

This post has been edited by esoterica: Aug 18 2008, 10:50 AM

anything is possible i guess. but i have to ask, asguard, if you did have the "power" to change reality through the astral what would you be changing and why? would it be for the common good or for your personal gain? would you undertake if you pulled a butterfly affect, the responsibility of possibly making things worse or are you just thinking that it would be cool to be able to manipulate reality as you see fit? maybe some doors are better left unopened. remember:

be careful what you wish for you might just get it.

but if you aren't detoured. the answer lies in wait and dormant in your psyche. if you can first astral project yourself than from there its the basic metaphor of climbing the mountain to understand what to do to affect the physical reality we all seem to accept as "reality". i'm sure its not "hard" just takes a lot of work to understand how its done. playing god is a challenging role, so much so that even god sometimes takes the easy road and let's us run a muck until its so bad he hits the reset button which is due any day now lol.

i hope this helped... probably not and if it didnt ask a SPECIFIC ? so i can answer it i.e. does anyone know what steps you need to take once in the astral realm to affect the outcome of certain situations you don't want to happen, etc.

smile kid it could be worse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye.gif)

Hi dude

if you did have the "power" to change reality through the astral what would you be changing and why?

Thats depend about the situation or moment.

would it be for the common good or for your personal gain?

Personally.. for a personal gain

would you undertake if you pulled a butterfly affect, the responsibility of possibly making things worse or are you just thinking that it would be cool to be able to manipulate reality as you see fit?

Of course I would. But before to make some change in realiy i would be very careful to dont get worse something

Sorry for my englis bro

don't trip and i mean i don't really know if you would or not nor was i asking a specific to you. Just something i wanted to convey that you should think along these lines if you hadn't already. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)

Yes, onlly a couple of questions ^^

I know that playing to be god is a really hard role. So, our microcosm is same to the macrocosm thats why we can make some amazing things.

That would be an interesting thing to accomplish. Yet, if I were able to, I don't think I would do so. Just like eternal ginja mentioned, changing something could actually make the situation and outcome a lot worse. I believe everything happens for a reason, so I wouldn't want to mess with it, good or bad.

i was just mentioning that most people do things to have the fun and exciting change in their life from the life they have without realizing the outcome. like all these harry potter wannabe wizard geeks that read a book that is meant for science fiction purposes and now dress and act and talk like their going to hogwarts.

its the same as where i come from only difference is the people in my world turn to gangs and end up dying. if you play with things you don't understand you don't know the damage you can do. its like giving a gun to a 5 yr. old. there is a possibility he will learn how to use it and nothing will happen "wrong" but there is just as likely a chance that he will shoot and kill someone on accident and imeasurable consequences will arange themselves along this line.

i was just suggesting that through doing something such as "affecting reality" through astral you might end up doing something you don't understand and therefore make it hard on your life. or also there could be a "freind" you bring back you didn't have before. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. and NOTHING ever goes to plan exactly.

all i was saying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

I know what you mean. Many things can happen, and anything is possible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

um yeah... thanx? lol i don't know i have to deal with a lot of people who come to me on a daily basis that seem to ask me ? that i don't know the answer to lol. people look at me hear some of my exp. and think i hold the answers to the universe and i don't obviously but i do know that if you delve into something without thinking of everything... or i should say if you delve into something with no knowledge of it than anything can happen. we see this in everything around us.

if you try to play basketball on the fly with a team that knows the rules who's going to really win. if you watch the animal kingdom they have to learn that which is placed before them in order to survive. also you don't talk about a book like you know it if you dont'. yet soooo many delve into "magick" like they know everything and they get hurt that way.

i'm not saying that we don't know everything, but we have to commune with certain inner things in order to connect with the knowledge we possess inside. if you grab a gun and don't know how to shoot a part of you does, but if you don't know how to link with that part your gonna hurt yourself you know.

and i think you do angelofdeath83 i just get on rants cuz this kinda thing urks me lol

Change is as enevitable as the certainty of death. And it should not be feared. Yes sometimes things change in ways that are not desirable or that cause suffering. But change can be manifested responsibly through personal awareness. Awareness of one's self, their environment, as well as awareness of what one can and cannot change.

In order to understand one's self they need to be able to understand their emotions, their attitudes, patterns of behavior and really be able to reflect upon themselves and deside if they are indeed who they even want to be. So much of society and life in general tends to mold us into who others want us to be. One needs to understand if they really are and who they really should be are the same thing. Understanding one's self liberates them from personal denial, self deception, false hopes and attitudes ingrained in them from alterior sources (ie media). But the implications run deeper then that because by understanding yourself you understand your motivations. You can control your intentions. And this is not only fundamental for appropriate change but in manipulating magick in general. If you do not understand yourself you cannot fully trust your intentions to not be false or dictated by alterior sources you are not aware of. Therefore in order to make good change, know yourself to know your intentions.

Then you also need to understand your environment. If you do not know what is around you, whats going on around you, changes you make may have unintended consequences. Making changes in your environment without knowing it is a bit like shooting in the dark not knowing if your bullet might hit someone you didn't know was there. It is also important to understand what things are that you cannot change or should not change. For example anything that might be unethical should be avoided. You don't want to make changes for others who do not want it.

If you take this same awareness and apply it to the astral planes then you can harness it to the same affect that you would on the mundane world. The catch is that you must also be able to actually fully control yourself, much the same way you would in the regular world. So you'd need to be experienced at astral projection. Yet even then if you are not adept you can get around this through the use of thought forms, servitors and other such constructs.

Also while experience will improve your ability to understand yourself and your world, understand that the more you try to micromanage the world around you, the more of it will slip past your control. Likewise the more you ignore in your world, the more that will also pass you by and the more likely you are to be controled by it. It is important that any magician understand that they are not all knowing or all powerful. Some measure of humblenss, I think, is a good quality.

that acid i would agree with. i believe a certain knowledge is good in the case of anything. if you don't know what your doing stay outta the kitchen until you do. there are many ways to find out what is going on it's just you have to take certain precuations and measures, like you said acid. thank you. well done.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/clapping.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

i would like to add that in order for someone to, at least in my opinion, seem serious with what one wants to know. before they act they should do extensive(different with every person) research on what it is they want to know. if you want to drive a car you must take classes. if you want to learn calculus you must take the desired courses. if you want to learn magick you must STUDY.

that is all.

Agreed. Knowedge is power and the ability to use it is divine.