I always thought i was good at sensing ki, (I dont see it, i dont hear it, i just have a sense that it is there) I guess im not

And i was trying to move a pencil as a mental exersize.

at first i tried a zero point technique, got nowhere.
I heard you can switch on your astral senses by flipping a switch in your mind. i dont think it worked.
then i tried a bit of empathy with the pencil, felt it with my mind, then i started to notice visual distortions, dont think its magical energy (You know when its dark and you space out for a while and then you see a bunch of flashing specks in the air and everything has a thin outline?)
Then i tried telling it to move with my mind
then yelling at it to move with my mind
pushing it with my mind.

I dont know how this is relevant to my question other than as an example of where im at.

but what are the best ki/energy control meditations/ exercises?

Ive been doing the middle pillar and circulation of light almost daily (The light goes in your crown energy center.)
and i used to do chakra meditations (The energy goes up your base center, different no?)

but i dont know if ive gotten anywhere?

well? What are the best energy exercises?

There are about 3 topics piled above this already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Have you been to psipog.net? they got some articles and exercises on there that might help .

Good Luck to us all.

Just because you can't move a pencil don't assume you are no good at sensing ki. After all, there's a huge difference between sensing something and doing something.
Ask anybody that is successful at skrying. Some can do it, but most can't actually get any real-world results. Just because they can see the daemon, doesn't mean they are even worthy of asking a favor from it.

As far as I know, there isn't any excercises that are good for developing this kind of ability. Just keep trying. It would probably take a few years to get it to move just a little bit, if you don't already have a natural talent for it.

Much as I like the middle pillar, your best bet would be to work on your chakras and if you want you could incorporate the circulation of light.
Just a thought, but have you ever tried raising lots and lots of energy through your chakras (spend at least half an hour on raising it from the earth) and then send it out through your palm(s) to the pencil? I've never tried that, but it's worth a shot.

i was doing a chakra ritual just now and i noticed something.

When i focus my ki to make a psi ball or something, i dont get any effect or really even sense the ki extremely well, so i decided i would start doing a daily high concentration chakra meditation.

First i sense it going into all the chakras and i try to feel it moving up my body as much as possible, and when it passes a center, i imagine that center expanding greatly, and when it gets to my forehead i focus on my mind and perception, and percieving will, and as it gets to my head i focus on feeling my connection with the divine.

however when it got to the forehead, my concentration was actually LOWERING GREATLY, and partially through my crown i felt like falling asleep right there. it was sort of a meditative state.

i hope that by doing this my astral senses will improve along with control of my ki, how does it sound?

What other meditation exercises have you practiced, and how many of them have you mastered?

Here is a common theme I personally see often, I suspect it has always been this way, a simple manifestation of human nature; that one moves from technique to technique, continually seeking something that can give them results. They inquire to everyone who may know, "What is a better technique? How can I get the results I want?"

Meditation is a funny thing. Meditation, is meditation, is meditation. All of our minds work at different rates, on different levels, and require a different method of reaching a point of stillness. However, 90% of all difficult in meditation lies not in the technique itself, but in the perseverance of the individual practicing the technique.

If you want to develop 'quickly' then begin at the beginning, and stay there as long as it takes. Frequently we find that the beginning is more advanced than we are led to believe.

The work you are talking about is energy work, not meditation. Meditation is sitting still and waiting for gnosis, enlightenment, the "Aha!" moment. Meditation is concentration. I am myself as responsible as anyone else for confusing the issue by calling such exercises as you have mentioned here 'meditation exercises', because this is a word we use as a kind of blanket term. Generalizing, i feel, ultimately does us harm when it then comes time to discuss the nature of the various routines. Energy work, for instance, should follow meditation - both in terms of the stages of development, as well as in practice. Meditate first, then do energy work. One day you will live in meditation, if you so choose to take it that far, and then you will meditate before you do anything, and as you do anything. But that may be some time.

In the mean time, I would advise, mastering simple concentration. You say that your mind begins to wander when you reach the brow area. This may just as well be because that is the temporal limit of your concentration, or there may be another cause - until you master concentration, there is no way to know.

If the mind is chaotic internally, how can we know the nature of that which might disturb it from without? If we cannot master concentration, how will we know the difference between a wandering mind, and the spontaneous eruption of insight? It is after a fashion separating the wheat from the chaff, if you like. Becoming aware of our psychic potential is, at first, like trying to hear a pin drop in the middle of rush hour traffic, or an air raid. The answer is not to discover how to hear better, the answer is to find a place where there is less noise.

Using your energy to do anything externally, must be preceded by learning to condense your energy, and before that learning to control your energy, and before that you must learn to be aware of your energy, and before that you must learn to concentrate and be still inside. If you cannot master each stage in its turn, you will only ever achieve the same basic level of ability that a person is born with - we move and exchange energy all the time. You do it when you express your emotions, when you change the subject of a conversation, when you repaint your bedroom, etc. The energy work you are describing is probably moving energy - however, when you are sufficiently developed, you will know the difference between moving the kind of energy you are moving now, and moving 'big' energy, for lack of a better descriptor. Just because energy is moving, does not mean that enough energy is moving.

No amount of tutorial will introduce you to a technique that is going to give you the kind of control and focus, and ultimately ability, that you want. Psipog's tutorials are not worth the bytes they're composed of. A lot of theory, some wild advice on visualization, but no substance to enact any of it. If you don't know how energy works, and you don't understand the nature of the mind, then you won't get where you want to go.

Learn more about the nature of attention, intention, willpower, focus, and concentration. Focus first on mastering concentration. The other things you have written and shared with us all here, suggests that willpower and concentration are not things that you have sufficiently developed.

That is my advice. Perhaps others will disagree.

peace

You say i must focus on sensing ki and being able to feel it, that's what im doing.

way ahead of ya (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

However you say i need to concentrate, and the only way that i know is to do things that require concentration, i.e. said meditation.

i used to stare at a spot on the wall for 15 minutes a day to improve my concentration, but it doesnt seem to help.

so any advice you could offer on actually working on my concentration would be grand.

but otherwise, ill just continue my energy meditations.

No. Said meditation is not concentration. It is focusing on a particular task, that of visualization. Focus and concentration are different. Focus is an application of concentration. The greater one's concentration is, the more powerful focus becomes.

To illustrate - because knowing what it is and what it means is as important as doing some exercise to achieve it - let us suppose that there is a 1-5 scale of concentration.

At 1 you are able to focus on, say, a spot on the wall for some length of time. Your thoughts may wander from time to time, and you get side tracked, and go back to it, and so on, for some amount of time. The thoughts which distract you, become full fledged fantasies or ideas at this point, though they may be brief.

Stage 2, you are able to concentrate your attention on the same spot, and though your mind still wanders occasionally, you are able to patiently dismiss them before they take on a life of their own. These thoughts will be like sentences which fizzle out when you do not allow your attention to pursue them, as though the speaker has trailed off and become quiet, perhaps uncomfortably. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Stage 3, you are now able to sustain thoughtless concentration on the spot, for some length of time, perhaps half an hour or so, and during this time no thoughts enter your attention. You are still aware of the space you are in, the temperature, sounds around you, etc., but they no longer trigger thought trains.

Stage 4, you are able to concentrate for some amount of time with no thought, and to the exclusion of almost everything else, you are aware of only yourself and the spot on the wall, although other sensory stimulus may occasionally grab your attention if it is startling enough. You have almost mastered your mind and attention, but not your brain, which will naturally filter out redundant sensory information if it is sustained long enough, but will still take notice of out-of-the-current-ordinary stimulus, as any change in stimulus might mean a change of environment, and your brain is wired to attempt to adapt quickly, so that you are not burned, eaten, crushed, etc.

Stage 5, there is no world, there is no stimulus, there is no thought, there is no You; there is only that which you have turned your concentration towards, and nothing else. You are that thing, in a cosmic sense. You do not feel your heart beat, your breath - you may not be breathing, or perhaps so shallowly that none could perceive it easily. Yet you are still aware and conscious, and when you have achieved this state several times, you are able to 'awake' from it without suffering a moment of shock. That is, initially it will come and go, and when it is going, you will more than likely shudder or even jump, and gasp suddenly for breath. You may also be overtaken by a sudden fear for your life, as though you might have just almost died. This is the threshold of the Ego, and the Ego's reaction to the fear of non-being. It will pass, but it takes time.

Most people experience 'stage 5' concentration naturally at some point. Usually with something stimulating, and often as children. I am told it happened to me several times that I would be so engrossed in a book or a television show that you could throw things at my head, and though struck, i would take no notice, so rapt was my attention. My nephew does the same thing sometimes when he's watching a movie he hasn't seen before. You have to get in front of him to get his attention. Neither of us is/were autistic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It seems it is yet another thing that occurs naturally from time to time, but try to master it and... well, you know. This is why they say, it is not about effort, it is about being; not about conquering, but about surendering.

Focus is the ability to bring that concentration to bear upon something dynamic, such that at its pinnacle there is no world, no you, no breath, no heartbeat, only the task at hand and nothing else. There are stages of focus as well, largely reliant on Concentration. However, the limit of your concentration is the limit of your focus, while the limit of your focus is not the limit of your concentration.

Concentration is static, focus is dynamic. Concentrated Focus becomes a balance of static/dynamic, yin-yang, will and creativity, fire and water, electric and magnetic, etc.

Concentration on a single point is a good exercise, however, if the stillness of mind is mastered first, then single pointed concentration becomes far more easily mastered.

To achieve stillness, it is enough to simply sit, close one's eyes, and wait for a thought to occur. By 'waiting' for the next thought, one is in a position of stillness already. Eventually, probably quickly at first, thought will occur, simply give it no attention. It will continue on it's own, but will dwindle far faster than if you got involved in it. It may take some time to achieve a quiet mind.

You may focus on your breathing, focus on your heartbeats - it will be difficult not to count either - or you can simply sit comfortably in any position, and simply mind your thoughts (hah, pun), be patient with yourself, and wait for mastery to occur. If you do this with religious intention, that is, every day at the same time for the same amount of time, mastery will occur far faster.

You are a 'novice' at this task when you can sit with no thoughts for one minute. You are 'intermediate' at five minutes. You are 'advanced' at 15 minutes. You are 'adept' at 30 minutes. You are approaching mastery when under any condition you can immediately quiet your mind for as long as it is necessary, whether that is 30 seconds, or an entire day. You are enlightened when you able to choose when to think, rather than when to be quiet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) If you like, set yourself a little egg timer at first and shoot for some amount of time like 30 seconds, and work your way up each day, each week, each month - whatever you feel is appropriate. The longer you take to master each 'tier' the more certain it is that you will achieve perfection of the skill. If you are very patient, spend a month at each interval, and increase by 30 seconds. If you are already enlightened, spend a year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Those titles are arbitrary, but everyone likes to have a little structure by which to gauge their progress. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This exercise teaches a valuable lesson about concentration, and the nature of the required mindset which will grant that concentration usefulness. Obviously, telling you the lesson now would be pointless, as it is human nature to immediately try to apply it, which will only get in the way. Suffice to say, you would benefit by not only practicing, but continually considering the significance of the skill you are developing.

There are various exercises which will help to calm the mind initially, thereafter to be more easily stilled. One is as good as any other, breath or heartbeats, mentioned above; also mantram, yoga, tai chi, walking, etc., do something you can enjoy. Or don't do anything. Though I tried many different methods, and eventually employed mantram for various other purposes, I found it most effective to simply sit, and do-not-doing.

When you have mastered this, then attempt concentration. If it seems ridiculously time consuming in the long run, that is because it is. Luckily, you are young.

peace

ps. If you don't try it, you'll never discover the other lessons that arise with the practice.

so you are saying to do the "basic" meditation where i clear my mind of thoughts for as long as possible, and very often?

i dont want this to be a one liner, so i suppose i will repeat myself for you.

THANK YOU VAGRANT DREAMER!!!

This post has been edited by davisxmonster: Jan 30 2009, 04:34 PM

sorry for the double post but i just cant concentrate enough to find the edit button right now... or maybe its not there.

anyways, i cant seem to get it right.

I tried the sit and not think method... and that fails miserabley, i cant even reach the medatative state for one second. or even a moment.

I tried to sit and stare at a wall for a few minutes and i failed miserabley. i reached the state for an instant but that is all.

now my head feels like it was stretched beyond its limits and i cant even think correctly, and all i did was focus on a dot for an instant. pathetic.

Yeah, that's what its like when you first start out. Set yourself a timer, say one minute, and continue to try for that whole minute. Record your results I suggest, but even if you don't that's also fine. After that minute is up, no longer think about your practice, do not judge yourself in any way, simply do it. You may practice more than once a day, preferably at regular and repeatable times.

When i first tried to quiet my mind completely, I could not do it either. It took several months for me to be able to do it (or, 'not-do' it) for even ten seconds because I would get distracted by some other interesting practice or book and forget to practice for a week at a time. It's taken years to be able to sit with a silent mind for more than 30 minutes, and I only recently am able to not go to sleep. I started trying first when i was 14. It has been ten years. If I had not been so distracted in that decade of exploration, it might only have taken two.

You are perfectly normal, you are not deficient in any way. Sit your @$$ down and practice, or you will still be complaining like this in ten years, or worse, you'll be another cog in the machine, dreaming of a time that you believed greater things were possible.

Here is an interesting story to contemplate:
_____________________________________________________________________________
"Encho was a famous storyteller. His tales of love stirred the hearts of his listeners. When he narrated a story of war, it was as if the listeners themselves were in the field of battle.

One day Encho met Yamaoka Tesshu, a layman who had almost embraced masterhood of Zen. "I understand," said Yamaoka, "you are the best storyteller in our land and that you make people cry or laugh at will. Tell me my favorite story of the Peach Boy. When I was a little tot I used to sleep beside my mother, and she often related this legend. In the middle of the story I would fall asleep. Tell it to me just as my mother did."

Encho dared not attempt this. He requested time to study. Several months later he went to Yamaoka and said: "Please give me the opportunity to tell you the story."

"Some other day," answered Yamaoka.

Encho was keenly disappointed. He studied further and tried again. Yamaoka rejected him many times. When Encho would start to talk Yamaoka would stop him, saying: "You are not yet like my mother."

It took Encho five years to be able to tell Yamaoka the legend as his mother had told it to him.

In this way, Yamaoka imparted Zen to Encho."
____________________________________________________________

peace

ive discovered that i get much more proficient results (still far from perfect) When i dont try.

kind of like how when you go to sleep you just relax, well its kind of like that.

instead of staring at a point and thinking *point point point point*

I stare and dont think, though its flawed since my muscles still twitch and stuff, it seems alot easier, however, would this even help improve my concentration. its easy and the only real concentration is not getting restless and doing something else due to boerdom.

The point is not to keep your eyes on the dot. The point is to do no-thing, to think no-thing. Just be aware. If you are getting bored, it is because you are thinking. When thinking stops, time stops; no time, no boredom.

If you stare for too long your eyes will water. If your mind is quiet for too long, you may become enlightened. Until staring at a dot serves a purpose, I would abandon the practice. But, it's up to you.

If you have other complaints/questions, I suggest reading the rest of this thread again.

On the point of not trying, you are close.

peace

Ahg, I take it back!

Its not easy!

Its even more difficult!

because when my mind becomes clear its like watching a clock tick the seconds by.

its like watching paint dry and theres no paint!

The second my mind clears i go berserk and instinctively try to go find something to do, but for some reason i cease to want to do anything.

Ive been wandering around my house for an hour.

Its really really really uncomfortable.

Is there like a good book on meditation or something that could help?

It feels like im doing something horribley wrong!

You're not doing anything wrong, you're just addicted to sensation and activity and spoiled with a consistent supply like everyone else in the world. Every little obstacle you come up against you seem to become convinced it's too insurmountable for you, you immediately look for a way to go around.

What did I tell you before? Sit down, practice for one minute then get up and occupy yourself otherwise. At the same time the next day - or if you think you can handle another minute of practice, some regular interval of hours later - practice for one minute again. It's certainly the long way, but you appear to have some difficulty dealing with your addictions.

Let me assure you, the practice is not triggering any kind of energy problems, it's not making you go crazy, or causing anxiety attacks. Anything that is wrong, is simply because you're afraid of the consequences of success. And before you retaliate, really think about whether or not you even know what success would mean.

There are a thousand books on meditation. They all say the same thing.

"Sit down, meditate."

peace

When i clear my mind you say that time ceases to exist

that it is bliss (From a different source than you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif))

And that you will chose when to think.

well i wonder.

isnt your mind composed of reflections of images, memories, and preceptions?

when i meditate and am supposed to reach this state you say. It never happens.

instead time slows down and i am assulted by every memory and every thing i have ever thought of.

I try to be like water and dodge it

i try to be like a mirror and leti t bounce off

But it feels awkward.

Trying to silence your mind

to make a burning candle by nature as still as a pond.

Isnt that what is supposed to happen?

Or do you have to in sense completely rework your mind so that it is a pond by nature instead of a candle?

ki or chi or whatever you call it isn't really designed for moving stuff - it is a river's flow, not a bulldozer's push - it just goes right through it

telekinesis is a speciality that most don't have and those who do have it usually lack other abilities

try intensely visualizing/generating a ghostly hand like amoeba pseudopod, but don't get uptight if it doesn't work

there must be urgency involved to make the switch flip, like the grandmother lifting the car off her kid

fluoride kills kundalini (perhaps that's why its there) - stop using fluoride or fluorite containing products like tap water and toothpaste - distilled water for drinking and baking soda for toothpaste - chelate the fluoride from your body with calcium like tums or calcium citrate, but watch the citrate as it also works a a blood thinner too

if the pencil is stubborn, work on a candle flame to make it go out, or the electricity to dim or brighten, or the temperature/humidity to change - remember the changes will be tiny so don't panic if things don't go bang - maybe they did and you just didn't notice

everybody expects fireworks on the first day at camp...

-es




probably why you are so twitchy?

It's only been a week. I already told you, it takes time, regular and diligent practice.

Don't identify with your mind. You are not your mind. Who cares what your mind is composed of now, are you going to let it be in charge, this illusiory collection of memes you've been programmed with your whole life, or are you going to be in charge?

Yes, the mind is like a wild horse that has to be tamed. At first it will buck, it will run from you, it will make noise and distract you, but like a horse trainer you simply have to be like a rock, do not bend, do not give up, be patient and continue practice. Eventually the mind will obey.

You are not reqorking your mind, you are unworking your mind. Right now it is not a tool, it is you, you identify with it. You may know, or think, intellectually, that you are not really your mind, but the rest of you does not agree with that, and has had no proof. You have not been shown the proof you need that you are not your mind - therefore you naturally identify it as yourself. It is not a failing unless it is a human failing, we all start out this way once we have been programmed to think.

The problem is that your will then gets wound up in your mind, and you lose it - you are distracted by your own thoughts and are unable to find your will. You know how to 'push with your mind', but the mind can only imagine things. When your mind is still, you'll discover your Will. Not the 'true will' of the thelemites, just Will, the mechanism. Until you find it, you can't use it.

Keep working on it. A week is not enough time to master it. In the mean time, keep learning other things too. Don't focus just on this one practice. This is something you can do every day at the same times on a regular basis while you go about the rest of your life. The only fast track here is to sit and wait for it to happen, for as long as it takes. I don't think you have the willpower for that, so there is no point in trying. You probably wouldn't last half and hour, if that. So, take the long road. Regular practice every day. Ignore everything that happens - any sensations, any thoughts, any wild bucking of the mind. The mind is a lie, don't believe it. The slowness will be excruciating. Your own impatience will be almost painful. Still, only sit and meditate, do so every day. I promise you, without any doubt whatsoever, if you practice diligently every day, regardless of what you think is happening when you do, then eventually you will learn to still the mind and be comfortable in that silence.

If you are not ready for this, admit you are not ready, and wait until later on in life. There is plenty of study to be done in the meantime.

peace

I THOUGHT WILLPOWER WAS WHAT MEDITATION WAS FOR!

I do agree, i have no willpower.

I shouldn't say no, bud "Inadequate for most activities"

I thought meditation would help build focus and in turn, willpower. (They are the same thing, right?)

If not then how would i get willpower?

I don't feel ready, but i have to do it.

Meditation builds focus which is required for all fields of magic and any hobby what so ever!

So putting off meditation is putting off magic and exercise and studying japanese!

then i don't have anything left! (God knows i don't have any deep personal relationships)


which brings me to the blunt paradox of the situation.




To gain willpower, one must focus on gaining willpower.

but to focus, one must have the willpower to do so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif)

There is no automatic exercise which will give you willpower. Willpower is the choice to apply oneself. Willpower is not strong or weak, it is consistent or inconsistent.

You are making this more difficult than it is. You are undisciplined, impatient, lazy, whiny, and unwilling to put effort into improving yourself. Everything you've posted to this forum from day one has been complaining about your Lack of this or that.

You need to pick a place to begin, and you need to stick with it until you get results - not for six months, not for a year, not for any length of time or any other condition than "When I can see a drastic change." If you need that much help, then get your parents in on it, acquire a willing enforcer of some kind, someone who will gladly keep you on track and tell you every day, "Now sit down for half an hour to meditate." Whatever it takes, you have to do it, or this is a fruitless endeavor and you are better off learning a skill that will be more practical for you.

Stop focusing on what you cannot do. Just don't think about it any more. Focus on one thing that you want to improve, and engage yourself in some practice to improve it. What you are incapable of is inconsequential. If you weight all that you cannot do against what you can do, of course the balance is going to tip in favor of what you can't do - there are more things in life than you will ever be capable of; the list of what you aren't able to do will always be longer than what you can. When you have improved one aspect of yourself, gained one skill, then pick another that will build on that. This is how you gradually build yourself up into a more capable person.

You may very well get more advice from others on this forum, but personally, I am not going to say anything else here. I have given you advice and exercises that have worked for others, and they can work for you. You must simply understand that there is no clock, no timer on the wall judging you the way you judge yourself. It takes as long as it takes, and you simply have to ignore the time factor, and commit the rest of your life to continuous improvement. This is just step one.

Good luck to you.

I just wanted to throw it out there, being around your age. You need to know you can do it. There is nothing that has power over you. Only you can make it happen and the amount of books you read and advice given to you will make no difference if you have no motivation (willpower) to improve yourself.

Pointing out our age, the amount of years we have lived in no way hinders our ability to be as great as any one on this forum. Nobody can live your life for you, you are not a kid anymore and you just need to take charge of your life and make things happen. I know when it comes to me, adults seem intimidating in this area of life. They've had more time to do things, they're older and most likely more experienced. Don't look up to anyone, and never look down on them. See everyone as an equal and know you are not inferior. Stick to your concentration practices and know you can obtain mastery over your mind. You are no less capable then the greatest.

This mindset keeps me on that path of improvement, hopefully it does the same for you.

Thank you for your post.

you seem to be a beginner who knows what he's doing.

may i ask how long you;ve been practicing?

Practicing seriously with an intent to get better? 2 weeks. But, I have always worked at keeping my mind quiet, even before the realization of magick occurred to me. It's great when you are just tired of thinking, its a temporary escape. Some days its difficult to quiet your mind, you just need to relax. Instead of focusing, dismiss. The more you are restless and annoyed, the harder it is.

Sometimes focusing on my breathing helps me, sometimes it doesn't. Just work on clearing your mind the way thats suited for you.

I wish I could say I was an expert, but I am not.