Lets say there is an entity that haunts a house,and you want to trap it into a object like a crystal,prepared vessel for the purpose,or any other object.How would one proceed? And does anyone have direct experiences with attempts to trap an entity in an object.

There used to be a pdf floating around about "Trapping spirits within crystals" But I cannot now recall if it was any good or who it was by. Try looking around and see if you can find it. I wish I could be of more help.

You are referring to Johannes Trithemius's The Art Of Drawing Spirits Into Crystals.Unfortunately that book deals with evocation of spirits into a crystal where the crystal is used to see the spirit.It does not specifically trap the spirit into the mentioned crystal.

This post has been edited by AncientOne: Feb 25 2009, 11:27 AM

1) pray it in like the old saints

2) command it in, like solomon (better have some power behind the command lol)

3) trick it in like the genii (djinn)

4) draw it in with something nice then slam it shut

but why and what for would you want to trap a intelligent, personable spirit?

wouldn't it be better to get to know it and call it a friend?

let me guess, you want to use it for something...

if that's the case i hope it gets loose and eats you :wink:

or traps you in there instead

i have learned my lesson on this

think trapping a dog in cage versus calling it your friend

spirits are not stupid animals, and there are usually more than one of them around

i wish there was a movie 'dances with spirits' kinda like 'dances with wolves'

"Coyote's gotten bold, you know he's sleeping on your floor" - http://www.christopherbingham.com/crossroads.html

-es

This post has been edited by esoterica: Feb 25 2009, 11:59 AM

I dont think it is possible to be a friend with this one,although I might try but this one seems very very unfriendly to anyone.And you are right I would use it for something,however I can achieve the same effect by binding it first and then commanding it to do my will.I am just inquiring about possibilities of trapping it in some object,to be later released after it performs several tasks,release would be of course under strict conditions,to prevent possible retribution of the entity.

This post has been edited by AncientOne: Feb 25 2009, 01:44 PM

wonder if you could relocate it like relocating a skunk? - trap it, take it to the woods, jerk open the stopper and run like hell

i suppose you designed the trap like one of those hav-a-hart animal traps where they go in to get the goodies and snap goes the lid

but what would you bait it with?

yeah, better to bind it and tell it 'by ___, git in thar and don come out til i tell ya!'

i assume you have a 'plan b' if it goes all pissed instead of meekly going into the bottle

yikes, what a mental picture! good luck!

pm on how to do it sent - let us know how it goes

I dont think there is any kind of bait that would lure it in the magical trap,it will have to be coerced to enter it.I would protect myself first,then bind it to the object.Well if it becomes pissed,and it surely will become,I will prepare for that beforehand,proper protections and talismans designated to hold spirits at bay.And some other ways too.By the way,did anyone encounter an entity that has a vaguely female face but like it is made of flies,and gives off horrible scream.This is the entity that manifested itself to the house owner many years ago,and it seems to hang around there since then.The person in question said he never felt truly alone in that house,and other residents suffered from various illnesses through the years.I visited the house few weeks ago,there is definitely something there and it is hostile,and there was a strange phenomenon present in the house,when you talk you get the feeling of like you are talking to yourself,like your words are echoing back to you,and the house and its surroundings have a feeling of dread and "otherwordlyness".House is vacant for the last few years.Thanks again for the instructions in the pm.

You know it occurs to me you might try the old Sumerian spirit bowls, or demon bowls. They were literally bowls with beautiful paintings and within a downward spiral. The basic idea was the demon or evil spirit would become intrigued and follow the spiral and get lost and trapped down in the bowl. Once it was captured they would either bury it or smash it. The details are sketchy.

I know of such things,they are usually called Babylonian devil traps.But since there is no record of a complete method,I am not seriously considering their use.I might try a spiral leading inwards,it cant hurt to add that to the prepared vessel.And I dont think those bowls could capture anything more powerful than astral larvae,and various phantoms.

Well, you could take the raw power approach. Grab the entity and make it go somewhere. You could consecrate a circle with a bottle into it, evoke the entity into it and give your will. I'd suggest taking a trip to your library.

I have no direct approach to putting an entity somewhere. I've created a few, I've befriended one here and there, putting it somewhere is a different story which (being a shaman) isn't something that's usually necessary.

yeah, me too - flies and screams aside, i'd give it some ice cream and see what it had to say

lots of bad stuff going on is sometimes just the mirror effect, where the spirit mirrors the treatment it is getting.or got in the past

of course once it likes you then it is nice to you, and even meaner to the others since you showed humans can be nice - catch 22

and it gets really pissed off when you leave - just like a little kid - wants attention

so what do you do with an evil, petulant, attention-seeking child? - you let it know you love it unconditionally

sometimes it works, sometimes not - 'sometimes you have to put them in a head lock to get them to listen'

I will consider everything and then proceed to do it,once the occassion comes.I will go for the entrapment,if that fails then to make it manifest itself and give information,since it is connected to some dreams that person had,and due to some other elements in those reoccuring dreams,I believe this entity has some knowledge about "unlocking" some things from the dreams in question.No one treated this spirit in any way since it made its first manifestation,in either good or bad way.If I get it trapped that will be an interesting experience,having it stored at home,and making communication.

'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar' - wonder who said that and what were they doing at the time lol

good luck, and be careful

i'd still give it some (real) ice cream, maybe even throw it a party, in order to see what it knows, at least before stuffing it in a box, but that's just me

later

edit: it just dawned on me that some may try this party thing later, so here's how to do it safely - put the ice cream out and have some yourself, attempting conversation with the spirit - just like worrying info out of a kid, first you have to achieve trust - getting the giggles at silly stuff popping into your mind is a good sign you have established a rapport - ask your questions and expect answers - be very aware of subtle communication, like feelings, stuff popping into your head, and even suddenly remembering stuff - examine each for meaning since the communication is usually electromagnetic not vocal - once you are all done, dump the spirit's portion (ask if they are done first of course) - never eat or drink anything after offering it to a spirit, but if you must, a tiny taste is usually ok - it may look the same but will be flat and tasteless, signifying that the spirit indeed 'ate it' - never assume anything when dealing with a spirit

This post has been edited by esoterica: Feb 27 2009, 08:14 AM

Instead of capturing an entity. Why not invite it to be your pet instead?
Give it a new home (your crystal), feed it once awhile and it will always be loyal to you!
Instead of it fighting you it would want to look out and take care of you instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Jenfucius: Mar 14 2009, 09:18 AM

Sometimes that just isn't the right approach.

A good place to start would be Solomons brass vessel,which a seal is used to trap a spirit,the brass vessel is done by a virgin boy who never trod women.

(IMG:http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/img/fig158.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/img/fig160.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/img/fig159.jpg)

There is also many bindings that can be used,by many traditions.

Force this spirit by comanding it into the triangle of the arts,In case something went bad use the following spells:

The curse of chains:
"O THOU wicked and disobedient spirit N., because thou hast rebelled, and hast not obeyed nor regarded my words which I have rehearsed; they being all glorious and incomprehensible names of the true GOD, the maker andcreator of thee and of me, and of all the world; I DO by the power of these names the which no creature is able to resist, curse thee into the depth of the Bottomless Abyss, there to remain unto the Day of Doom in chains, and in fire and brimstone unquenchable, unless thou forthwith appear here before this Circle, in this triangle to do my will. And, therefore, come thou quickly and peaceably, in and by these names of GOD, ADONAI, ZABAOTH, ADONAI, AMIORAN; come thou! come thou! for it is the King of Kings, even ADONAI, who commandeth thee.

WHEN thou shalt have rehearsed thus far, but still be cometh not, then write thou his seal on parchment and put thou it into a strong black box; 1 with brimstone, assafœtida, and such like things that bear a stinking smell; and then bind the box up round with an iron wire, and bang it upon the point of thy sword, and hold it over the fire of charcoal; and say as followeth unto the fire first, it being placed toward that quarter."





The conjuration of fire:
"I CONJURE thee, O fire, by him who made thee and all other creatures for good in the world, that thou torment, burn, and consume this Spirit N., for everlasting. I condemn thee, thou Spirit N., because thou art disobedient and obeyest not my commandment, nor keepest the precepts of the LORD THY GOD, neither wilt thou obey me nor mine invocations, having thereby called thee forth, 1, who am the servant of the MOST HIGH AND IMPERIAL LORD GOD OF HOSTS, IEHOVAH, I who am dignified
and fortified by His celestial power and permission, and yet thou comest not to answer these my propositions here made unto thee. For the which thine averseness and contempt thou art guilty of great disobedience and rebellion, and therefore shall I excommunicate thee, and destroy thy name and seal, the which I have enclosed in this box; and shall burn thee in the immortal fire and bury thee in immortal oblivion; unless thou immediately come and appear visibly and affably, friendly and courteously here unto me before this Circle, in this triangle, in a form comely and fair, and in no wise terrible, hurtful, or frightful to me or any other creature whatsoever upon the face of earth. And thou shalt make rational answers unto my requests, and perform all my desires in all things, that I shall make unto thee."

The greater curse:
"Now, O thou Spirit N., since thou art still pernicious and disobedient, and wilt not appear unto me to answer unto such things as I would have desired of thee, or would have been satisfied in; I do in the name, and by the power and dignity of the Omnipresent and Immortal Lord God of Hosts IEHOVAH TETRAGRAMMATON, the only creator of Heaven, and Earth, and Hell, and all that is therein, who is the marvellous Disposer of all things both visible and invisible, curse thee, and deprive thee of all thine office, joy, and place; and I do bind thee in the depths of the Bottomless Abyss there to remain until the Day of Judgment, I say into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.
which is prepared for all rebellious, disobedient, obstinate, and pernicious spirits. Let all the company of Heaven curse thee! Let the sun, moon, and all the stars curse thee! Let the LIGHT and all the hosts of Heaven curse thee into the fire unquenchable, and into the torments unspeakable. And as thy name and seal contained in this box chained and bound up, shall be choken in sulphurous stinking substances, and burned in this material fire; so in the name IEHOVAH and by the power and dignity of these three names, TETRAGRAMMATON, ANAPHAXETON, and PRIMEUMATON, I do cast thee, O thou wicked and disobedient Spirit N., into the Lake of Fire which is prepared for the damnéd and accurséd spirits, and there to remain unto the day of doom, and never more to be remembered before the face of GOD, who shall come to judge the quick, and the dead, and the world, by fire.

THEN the exorcist must put the box into the fire, and by-and-by the Spirit will come, but as soon as he is come, quench the fire that the box is in, and make a sweet perfume, and give him welcome and a kind entertainment, showing unto him the Pentacle that is at tile bottom of your vesture covered with a linen cloth.

From the lesser key of solomon.







This post has been edited by azareth: May 24 2009, 07:56 PM

I'd probably go with the Solomonic approach myself as well. It is very impressive and powerful, which is sometimes what counts. I might waive the requirement for a virgin boy though, heh.

Err, that particular use of the brass vessel is, if I am not greatly mistaken, specifically oriented towards the binding of demonic entities, and in addition, the actual process of binding the spirit into the vessel is only accounted for the 72 spirits bound in the Lesser Key. The actual process by which solomon originally subjugated those spirits is not laid down in the text.

One or two of the goetic spirits, however, might be able to answer the question of how to contain this entity. Course, that presupposes you're equipped for that.

Just using the various curses and incantations from the Lesser Key, with or without a brass vessel, will not do it however. Those incantations are specific to the book and it's purposes. While they are a good template for creating the same environment, the spirit in your house is not bound by the same rules as those in the lesser key, and therefore is not required to consent to the same treatment by the same tools.

peace

I much agree with your statements Theoricus so long as the specters or intelligences are not malicious. If one were placed in that position, it might have to be something considered for personal protection.

This post has been edited by GodlyMan: May 25 2009, 01:25 AM

Gathering information, recording one's findings and intuitions, and making calculated attempts at resolution, comprise a far safer route to solution than to haphazardly try things which are unrelated to the current dilemma.

Desperation is not a posiiton to allow oneself into in a situation in which the offending being may be dangerous at all. Better to maintain calm, observe, study, and execute something which may at least offer temporary alleviation if not a permanent solution.

Employing goetic incantations will not work. I have attempted in the past to apply the conjurations to other uses, and I am not an amateur when it comes to adapting various systems either alone or into synthesis with others with some success. Locating the point of disturbance, evaluating the course and effects of that disturbance, and assembling a specific remedy to that disturbance is my profession and I do it very well.

Can you for instance draw common threads amongst those people it has appeared to? Have you looked into the history of the house and property? Have you compared various experiences amongst more than a couple of people who have shared this experience? Have you considered the geometry of the house, the placement of the rooms, whether it was built (knowingly or otherwise) as an energy sink? Have you confirmed that the entity is demonic? Most demonic presences react strongly to a strong connection to some higher power, that is generally a good indication (using strictly the 'classic' definition of the word 'demon'). The spirit could well be ancestral depending on the history of the land, could be a natural spirit, could also be a left over attack on the property by some long dead (or not so long dead, or not dead at all) magician, etc. You can test for these different things in a few different ways, there are various modes of divination that could be used, honesty enforced by some divine assitance, assuming you have that. What kind fo culture surrounds this area? Is there a possibility it could have an origin in some local native culture? Have you checked its appearance against other local tales historically attributed to that geographical region? Local folklore, etc., is usually not that hard to dig up.

Not just any entity can be easily trapped in a crystal, not just any crystal will hold an entity, not just any bowl will do it, nor will any brass vessel not properly constructed for that purpose, and without a line in to God like solomon supposedly had, there's not much in the way of instruction for those things.

Take some time to do some thorough research into the subject matter, all too often we jump to conclusions and when we jump in sufficient blindness we often miss the mark by a mile. Trust your instincts, but trust them to find you the right information, and trust your reasoning skills to confirm that intuition.

If what you've shown us here is all that you know about this entity, then you do not know enough to do anything at the moment, in my own opinion. I would assume you've already tried the traditional "house blessing" approach?

peace

That's interesting. I tend to take a one-size-fits-all approach, which might be due to my skepticism: I'm not sure if it is psychological or not, and if it is, something with the grandeur of a "Goetiac" ritual would probably (so I reasoned) work. If it is not purely mental, I also assumed that all magic and magical systems flow from a common source, and are only different ways of manipulating this source.

Well, even looking at the wording of the conjurations and curses themselves - they are built for the goetic system, and not for anything else; they include threatening the spirit using its name and seal, and in the book itself it even admonishes the practitioner to be protected by wearing the belt, lamen, mitre/cap, have a sword/stave handy, etc.

Without knowing the name and seal of the spirit - and it's all together possible that the seals of the goetic spirits are more appropriately seals they were bound to rather than anything with universal precedent - you don't fulfill the requirements set down in the conjurations themselves.

It is all together possible that with the right incantation and the appropriate leverage to call it into manifestation, this spirit could be bound in a vessel similarly constructed and under similar rules and effects - but there doesn't appear to be any information here that would identify the entity one way or another. One could try flashing a more universal symbol around the entity - I believe one of the seals or talismans of solomon's Lemegeton is supposed to 'make all spirits obey' but if I recall they are typically all spirits of a particular sphere rather than anything so universal as to guarantee that this spirit will respond at all, much less be forced to obey.

If the spirit is a disincarnate human, then there are necromantic approaches that would effectively bind the spirit. If it is natural, then there are natural venues by which it's service or at least it's capture or exorcism can be accomplished. If it is something more associated with local folklore, then there is also probably some folklore regarding the warding off or befriending of the spirit. If it is a demon then it is subject to certain rules, classically speaking, and one can bind it according to those rules, most chiefly being to sick its boss on it, who can be bullied either by one of the classical grimoires that applies to that king/duke/etc. (though this would require more information on the part of the spirit in question than our original poster may have at their disposal), or by the appropriate angel. That again, of course, assumes the poster has such magical resources to apply. If it is another person assaulting the place - either currently, or the leftovers from something in the past - then it's a matter of undoing what was done, which is only as complicated as the lack of information makes it, and besides that there are various methods by which an area can simply be warded or exorcised of such effects.

In my own experience, one size does not fit all, or perhaps more aptly: if one has only one size in which things can fit, then that size is probably limited whether the individual realizes it or not. It's only when we come up against some problem we cannot solve with the tools that we have that we either find new tools, or chalk up the failure to some kind of divine providence and move along. In the past, if I have not been able to solve a problem that needed magical intervention using one method of magic, I tried another rather than assuming I was executing the first method wrong, and this has happened many times. Different kinds of magic are just good, or at least better for, different areas of effect.

If magic is purely psychological and a matter of brain changes, then it is still a matter of engendering the correct changes for the associated situation. If magic is drawn from one source (I do not feel personally that the two are mutually exclusive) in some more concrete and truly 'supernatural' (I prefer supernormal really), then there is still a matter of using the right tool for the right job.

Witchcraft of the classic 'natural magic' sort tends to work best for me when used in situations where some element of 'chance' appears to be the key to solving the problem. Talismanic magic is appropriate for ongoing effects like warding a home, drawing clients to a business, protecting the person from some danger or sickness, etc. Spirits tend to carry out specific tasks and so engendering their aid often fits will with other magical approaches, or alone in the cases where that specific task (acquire this and such, assure that I get to this or that place, make it rain on sunday, etc). What I've come to call direct magic though I believe psionics to be essentially the same thing, is good for immediate primarily mind affecting purposes, or minor direction of elemental energies - shifting the energy of a room, enhancing or depressing one or another element in a healing session, programming the inner consciousness, etc. Sigils are often seen as a kind of catch all, but personally I have the best successes with internally directed sigil magic designed to make some specific alteration/enhancement to my own psyche. High magic is frequently of greatest use in situations like these, but that can be tricky as it relies heavily on the appropriate symbolism, the appropriate entities who have the right authority. Dealing with spirits classed as Angels and Demons can frequently be a lot like a political engagement, playing various authorities to get things done in different 'branches' of the created world.

This is why in my own estimation, information is paramount to success - the more you know, the more you can be sure what method to apply to maximum effectiveness. Information affords efficiency, and there are situations where once assaulted a spirit's presence can become a great deal more aggressive and even destructive, hindering further attempts.

peace