Magic: the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature

In it's definition magic has endless possibilities....

does it?

For some strange reason. when i am thinking up "Incantation" or "various other techniques" I have trouble thinking up what to do.

"what exactly is the problem i'm facing now? How do i solve it?" are questions i ask,

but magic doesn't seem to come up as an answer often.

and when it does, i use my trusty tarrot deck and i get BAD RESULTS
BAD BAD BAD RESULTS

so the magic i do always ends up being pure white magic since everything else seems it would go bad.

that's pretty limited if you ask me.

Magick is a tool.


It is only as good or as evil as the magician who wields it. It all depends on your intent.


That said, magick is a neutral force (By the same token, a person can use a screwdriver to either install a doorknob or stab someone in the chest.)

i know that, i meant what practical purpose does it serve in your life?

what do you tend to use it for?

things like that

in my case divinations tend to be wrong.

they say a spell will work, and it doesn't.

when they say it won't, i lose motivation and drive.

Personally i am currently trying to use magic to sculpt myself to my ideal self. Psychologically mostly.

It never worked.

So im planning on doing something a bit stolen from dante.

I'm planning on getting better at astral projection (Never got it to work before) and i am going to take a journey from the darkest parts of the human psyche/ astral plane (Hell) and travel up to the best parts (Hevan)

hopefully that will do something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I use magic primarily for knowledge and answers to questions as well. There is at other times a use for magic towards the ends of protection, healing, and experimentation with consciousness, dreaming, cause and effect, and so on.

It sounds like your primary divination system is tarot cards. I am curious what your perspective is on the cards and how they answer questions. I originally read tarot cards from a context of "This will happen, this will happen..." etc., in a kind of oracular fashion, and I found that my readings were often muddled, inaccurate for the most part, with perhaps a detail here or there that came to pass but in a way that often could have been interpreted from any other combination of cards as well.

Eventually I transitioned into reading them very differently, less of an oracle and more of a wise old teacher who sees the whole picture but doesn't really give anything away. I guess it came out of the idea that just knowing the future is enough to change it. So I started reading them in terms of "Here is the archetypal nature of your situation, and the archetypal elements involved at the moment - here are the aspects you need to consider to get what you want out of this situation, and here is what to consider to understand what you want." This kind of interpretation takes practice, and of course experience seeing the cards 'in action' as it were, but changes the cards from and oracle to a teacher who wants to guide you in the right direction. The difference is that on the one hand and oracle tells you what the future holds, and in response you wait for that future to happen or change your decisions based on that information, in either case immediately invalidating that future. On the other hand a teacher draws your attention to the elements they see which you are ready to handle, and those which you need to learn more about, and those which are going to be a problem for you - they help you figure yourself and your world out.

This also means that the tarot change from being a question and answer tool, to a tactical tool - instead of "will this work out for me" you have to ask, "How can I make this work out for me?" It also is a transition from asking permission to asking for assistance doing what you are already determined to do, which in all cases is enacting your will (whether that's the greater or lesser will).

And of course, it's good that magic doesn't come up as an answer often in response to "how do i solve it?" Magic isn't just about solving your problems, except to the extent that all problems are solved ultimately through self-transformation of one kind or another. Magic is about transmutation - of situations, thoughts, emotions, energy, character, reality, etc. And when we want to employ magic effectively, transmutation is a point to consider - "What part of this situation can I change (transmute) to turn it towards my own interests/benefit?" Asking the right question (of yourself or of a tarot deck) can often make the difference between getting a useful answer and getting the kind of vague uncertainty that comes from asking a vague question.

And if you're working with a tarot deck to find these answers, don't assume it is telling you how magic will change the situation, or how to change the situation with magic - look for what element can/needs to change, and then decide whether magic is necessary. Sometimes the focal point is internal, and sometimes it's external. Magic works best when applied one of two ways, and mixing them usually creates a paradox of interests - either very general (I want good luck) or very specific (to make my boss agree to a raise when I ask him on monday at 5:30pm.) I don't typically advocate using magic directly on an individual, as the human element of any situation is in my opinion one composed of entirely too many psychological and emotional variables, but when magic is used for knowledge (to grant me the right words at the right time to convince my boss to give me a raise) you can almost never go wrong - knowledge is power and almost all of our problems can be solved if only we have the right knowledge to solve it.

peace

i use magic(primal) as a shield(active defence/anti-entropy), a sword(active attack/change), a weathervane(what's happening/warning), a gateway(time and world voyaging), a provider(wall sculpture), a solace(conduit to/for my love to be with me), a television(remote viewing), and a lot more day-to-day things, usually unplanned and without much thought beyond proper interpretation of what comes - all of these i set up years ago, some lives ago, and are directly powered without needing attention except for modifying them from time to time - they do not exist to the naked eye in the physical world, but are established in my non-physical temple

other things are more formal and calculated, like far entity work(naked or guarded), where the gateway is used to come together after much remote viewing to establish the connection

without magic, i would be nothing worthwhile

This post has been edited by esoterica: Mar 17 2009, 12:02 PM

What do I use magick for?


Power, money (I manifested $250 just yesterday), and knowledge.

that is experience, and experience comes with time, and failure

as i said in the other thread, you need to define what you want to do, and how magic would accomplish it, and what actual magic that it uses and how, and what path is that magic within, and then go learn that path, and then you could use that magic to do what you wanted to do

there are no shortcuts, and no vague 'do magic' incantations that hook you up with immediate solutions

a much simpler way for the beginner to accomplish everyday things is to work through a non-physical entity, sometimes called a god or goddess, hence the popularity of wicca and those paths like it that exalt a godform or angel or demon or entity - the entity has the experience and if you can command or cajole it then you can have it do your bidding, as long as it doesn't eat you first

yep, just like praying to god for a new car, but lets say you wanted to work with god, then first you need to know god, and not the miserable old sunday-school version that is waiting breathlessly at the gateway for you to grant an audience with it, but the real god - not any duality-ridden he, but a timeless 'it', a seething orb of such incredible power that it would destroy you utterly and immediately to even approach it - the star that is our sun is only a tiny fraction of the true thing that is god, for god is more than even all the things and all the energy in all the universes - it is 1^n - there is an insane amount of power within a sibgle thought from it, and also intelligence, and strength and much wisdom, as this thing has existed eternally since before time began- we are splinters of that incredible godform, and our true selves are made in the image of that godform, and the physical bodies we inhabit are bipedal for a reason

i am very attached to and serve a particular female godform - her overlord is ebven greter than her, but her story is my story, and the two of us have been together since before memory, and even unaware of my true nature i was pulled to her, and then i became whole again

You make it sound like evocation is beginner's work.

I thought it was a very difficult practice.

I tried summoning a certain goetic demon once, not only was it difficult to even sense it's presense, but i got screwed over in the end.

and when you say work, do you mean evocation, or invocation?

The way we come upon the concept building will to wrap our thought around such subjective personal experiments of application as Magick may answer deeply.

If we will to know our physical future, follow the choices (causes) and observe the effects. Thoughts being things, if we acknowledge such, then can serve instead of hinder.

For my personal centre, I view the use of the laser beam Wil cultivated by consistant exercise for the urge of seeking Truth, from where did I come, why am I here and where am I heading in the substantial reality that lay beyond this transitory ever changing plane of being.

It seems to seek Truth is to look beyond the finite reality of cars, cash and passing passions, for the reason of this fall into darkness only knowing the five senses in a consumerized western civilization, many look deep within and take the hard road of preparation (control of the mind and emotions) yet who Knows the man who has given total devotion to the Self Knowledge.

May the Ritual be a way for those living now to direct all senses to a certain point, maybe we get what we put in, and only personal experience will give us the material to Know, instead of mere intellectual speculation.

Intent likely being the direction on the wheel of life one travels, to the centre or the circumference, we will if One Truth Is, find ourSelves perhaps at different rates of motion drawn toward the center or the rim of that which we need to grow.

M-m-m-monsterbump! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)


Now how did you do this? I haven't heard of it before; at least, not that I know of.

Without going into too much detail, it was courtesy of Uncle Sam (And our newly-minted President's economic stimulus program. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )


I didn't even know I was eligible! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (I didn't qualify last year ... when the rest of America got theirs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif) )

I guess that's fairly magical... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yeah, that's pretty much how it works IRL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .



(Oh, to be Jeannie and have the ability to fold my arms and blink up whatever I wanted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif) )

Self-improvement - getting rid of negative energy. Meditating so I can understand myself and my place in Ma'at/Mayet/The Way of Things more fully.

Knowledge. Insight.

Divination. Because you never know what you'll see.

On the odd occasion I'll tangle with someone astrally to get them improve their behavior (yeah, I know this brushes the LHP, but I'm okay with that). I take, accept, claim and proclaim responsibility for my actions. I have no one to blame but myself if something goes south or otherwise backfires.

Invocation. Something happens by and lingers (and They do frequently) then I'll use my art to try to communicate/commune with Them, same way I'll nod and say "Howdy" to someone I pass on the street. Helpful to know the neighbors and neighborhood, both seen and unseen.

I call myself a Goetic student - it's fascinating stuff, but I don't practice evocation. I have no idea what one of the Descending Hierarchy could give me that I really need in return for what It would want in return. So I just study. Same with Enochian lore - I really don't want higher Powers messing with my life any more than is absolutely necessary. Since nothing is ever really free, I'd just as soon avoid Their entanglements.

Best regards,
Hermetic668

sounds like the magickal equivalent of writer's block, and a fear of failing. Just my opinion.

I view things pretty similarly to esoterica in this thread it seems.

I'd add two things though.
One, that when working with a deity, just because you're on friendly terms doesn't mean they'll be your sugar daddy. My patron is entirely focused on my spiritual development and growing understanding, I have asked her about "wealth", and honestly my intent was just to have more free time to work on my path (yes really), but she responded by saying it would only be a distraction. I trust her judgment. Though I do tease her a bit when I go to work, mentioning "I could be hanging out with you in Da'at right now... but I have to go to work" But it's in jest.

the other thing I'd add is that the numero uno thing which I learn magick for, is to further my own spiritual evolution. I use magick to learn how to do better magick, in a sort of circular pattern, with the ultimate goal of enlightenment. I don't really pause to focus on what I could do to improve my material life. Unless I think that the experience would be applicable to my greater goals, which are not materialistic. My material life isn't very important. actually most things which people think of as important, aren't very important. it's all a matter of perspective.

I don't really see how magic wouldn't work, granted I'm only a few months into this. I mean if you truly understand how and why intention and desire manifests in reality, physical or otherwise, making such changes is just a matter of willing it to. I've never had a failed attempt to produce results save the times when I expected it to fail or subconsciously wanted it to fail. Overcoming these is pretty fucking easy, and if you're actually doing rituals and spells rather than just performing the art of magick where nothing other than your mind and will to make stuff happen is involved, I don't really understand why they could still get in the way. The possibilities ARE endless, and it DOES NOT require "years of practice" to get to the point to be able to manifest matter from thin air or fly like I see so many people say. Repeating this creates a self-fulfilling prophecy where it DOES require training. Magick is fucking simple. Not only that, it's natural. EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH uses magic EVERY SINGLE DAY. I say f%*! all the ideology and rituals until you are able to "see" the dynamics of magick working in life AND can fully comprehend how and why consciousness creates reality. In my humble opinion they get in the way and put hoops to jump through in your way of just doing. If all you care about is results, you don't need to really understand every little aspect of exactly how what you did created them. Personally, I'm interested in studying that and kind of "know" how it works anyway, but it's not absolutely necessary.


Asking what I use magick for seems like a silly question to me because once you really know what magick is you realize everything is magic. Crowley defines magic as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." Talking and walking are as magical as telekinesis and divination. To answer your question, I use magic for everything. As of recent, magick has become fully integrated and I use it like I do my senses and "normal" abilities.


Of course, I'm only 18 and have fallen into this VERY recently, so I could be way off. I don't think this is the case as an adept I have been working and talking with calls me a "pretty enlightened individual" and says I'm "on the fast track." Who knows. I do what I do and get results. f%*! all the rest.


Peace and love.

for entertainment. self improvement. hobby that interest me.
I don't use it for mundane things much at all.
Just the Fun of doing it is enough for me.
most of all if your not having fun its pointless so I try and keep it interesting as soon as it turns boring and Im forcing myself to do something I rethink the strategy. you have to work for some things but I cant see why you cant have enjoy it aswell

I consider energy work and magic to be roughly the same thing. Part of my job involves energy work, so it actually is part of my livelihood. But primarily I practice energy work for the sake of becoming stronger, more evolved and more skilled. I don't use it to manifest money other than what I make with my own hands. I don't use it to manipulate people. In part, I practice because it is enjoyable to do so. Some people paint, draw , knit or write. I do qigong.

I use my abilities and training to improve the community I live in.

It has honestly integrated into my life to the point that I use magic the way I would use intuition: it simply occurs as an extension of my intuition.

I am going to copy this down for my own response, if you don't mind.

Ever since I studied Taoism, my magickal works and studies have all been altered to evolve in a certain direction. A blessing is a blessing. A curse is a blessing that hurts, but only in the sense that sore muscles from lifting weights builds strength.

I find that now, I no longer curse others for sake of cursing or to see them suffer, but I feel that I am able to curse others without fear of any sort of implication of reciprocation because the magickal intent is based on helping the other. For instance,

A long while back, many years ago, my older brother was a hothead. We got into an argument, and he threatened physical violence. He went off on a drive, and in his absence, I cast a spell to teach him to "slow down" (being that he was moving too fast, and needed to calm down his temperament!). My father asked what that noise was upstairs after I was done. I said, "Doing a spell to teach him to slow down." Immediately, my father phoned my brother. My brother audibly scoffed. Soon after, he came home, with a speeding ticket. That point after he learned 1) Don't screw with magical people. 2) Slow down and improve your temperament. 3) STOP BREAKING THE LAW!!

From one perspective, the speeding ticket cost money, which hurt the family in a way, because we were going to use it to other means. True. But by that same token, my brother's temper was more of an expense risk to the family. By using a dark-magick/LHP mechanic, I just had to apply magick to a critical point, and the situation corrected itself thereafter.

TL;DR I never curse to curse. I curse for extra encumbrance for strength. I curse to improve the human condition. I curse to bring the best out of us.

The more I seem to learn about and practice magic, the less I seem to apply it other than regular banishings and self development. Often I consider an experiment and ask myself, 'Do I really need to use magic for this?' and more often than not the answer is 'no'. It's a peculiar sensation. A world of limitless possibility; yet I find myself sitting there quite often like a fish in a pool with multiple routes to bigger, better and more fortunate places but concluding the algae right here is just fine.

The magic I seem to use most is not what I would consider magic actually, but divination.

Xenomancer~

I agree with the ontological basis of what you're saying, i'm confused about a few points. From a personal perspective, how does an individual have the authority and will to claim an individual is capable of bettering an eternal cycle beyond our own understanding. I'm not sure if traditional taoism delves into the reincarnation/karma basis, but where is an individual able to define "the human condition" as an element of the past, present, and future, and still objectively act upon it. Is it possible to be a purple thread in a rug and rightfully claim that the entire rug is purple?

I use magic primarily for two reason. Once is guidance, whether though my Medicine/animal oracle cards or communication and listening to what my totems or animal spirits have to say. This other is defense and healing. Either for my self or for my love ones.

My sentiments exactly!


What's beyond our understanding? I re-read my post, and I don't quite understand what the context of your question is. Please elaborate.

Correct! It doesn't! Because I'm not a traditional Taoist!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Who said it's an element of past, present, and future? My paradigm works from the reverse. Rather than human condition being an element of past, present, and future, I work from the paradigm that past, present, and future are elements of the Human Condition!! Humans exist in time, yes, but we are more than just our past, present and future. The whole idea of (what I learned about Taoism) is that one does not fret about the parts, one is able to handle the whole, while understanding that the details have their parts to play in a synergistic fashion.

Try to meditate on this new spin, and you may be able to understand the rudimentary constituents of my general views. If you wish to detail this further, feel free to PM me.

I am not claiming that the rug is purple. I am claiming that we are all thread.

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: May 30 2010, 09:39 AM

What I'm really interested in is that in your former post, you worded yourself in a way that seemed to connote that as an individual, you (or an individual, really) is capable of bettering the condition. Given that we are experiencing this condition on a subjective level, how can an individual genuinely perceive what can better the human condition if we ourselves are incapable of truly and wholly grasping the full nature of the human condition? What makes your perspective of the human condition rightfully better than another in such a way that you can act out, and perhaps even override the idea of another's idea of improvement?



I concede and agree with your point, but talking about the non-linear nature of time belongs in a completely different thread. That aside, the point of that sentence is that who are we as individuals to claim to understand any of it? To us, our subjective present is all that exists, and past and future are fluid aspects of that, but moreover that makes us even more of a disadvantageous position to act. By only being able to see through the personal lens, then as individuals we are incapable of seeing what's best called the 'objective world' in any real way to make utilitarian (since we are trying to better the world) decisions.


But, who are you to say that you are capable of understanding the rest of this alleged tapestry? And in such a way, who is an individual to have the audacity to claim anything we know nothing about?