I have yet to perform any sort of magical ritual whatsoever, except the old obsessive-compulsive things I didn't actually have a choice in... and judging by their efficacy, or rather lack of efficacy, they weren't very magical.

I have, however, read a good deal, both in books and on these and other forums. One thing that I keep encountering is the notion that you must be experienced to successfully make use of these "classical" grimoires. Opinions seem to vary as to why exactly, though; or even if you have to be at all. Imperial Arts, for instance, gives no credence at all to this idea; but since he practiced for quite a while before, and since I know of several others who are unable to get results even when doing perfect rituals, I'm not sure what to think.

Opinions? None of the medieval grimoires I have read mentioned required previous competence, but perhaps they assume competence already, or something.

All replies welcome :-)

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 18 2009, 09:48 PM

you know, its a hard one, and I can kinda see both sides of the fence. We want results (obviously), but its like calling up the prime minister of some other country, and asking for favours. In short, if you want some help, it always pays to have face time with these people. This doesnt mean an ellaborite ritual, just meditate, or push yourself to focus 10/12... whatever, it doesn't matter. talk, and be nice. Also listen. If you need something else... try and hunt down someone who can see spirits (yeah yeah, I know not all of them can...). Call this spirit forward (or, if your affraid the that the person who can see is going to freak when they hear goetic names... write the spirits sigil and name on a piece of paper the night before. then tell them you want to talk through a medium, but you will call them another name... I've had a goetic do this to me. It was AMON, but he said his name was UOMA.... spell it backwards (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) took me 9 months to figure that out! and seal the deal with 30 mils of coca cola, or fizzy drink. it isnt much, but they appreaciate it more than they tell you.) and ask for help..... who knows, the scryer might be impressed by who you call up, they will want to know more.

There is no substatute for experience other than experience. Be prepared to give more than you receive for a short while, but they wont be big things, I just use soft drink, and they flock to me. If you call them, thank them with soft drink. I wonder why so many people here just expect to dish out commands from their ivory tower, crack the whip, and wonder why nothing happens. soft drink, incense, cheesecake, an apple.... whatever, its no biggie. I stick with cheap soft drink, as we always have soft drink in the house.

however, if your wondering people who would be nice to newbies, I know of a few:

AMON: yeah, if you dont know how to call and see properly, expect to see visions of dragons and scales. He's nice, to most people....
AMENIDIAL: This guy has his finger on the button of a MASSIVE army... and they DO work!
DANTILION: one of his nasty tricks is to talk in peoples minds.... nonstop. Do you have someone you don't like? do they deserve to have a few weeks of sleepless nights? would your karma take a huge battering if you did this? ask him.
SAMIGINA: good at finding the recently dead. people passed on that you need? he can find them, and help them. and also, help you too.
MARDUK: yep, he likes to fight. an avenger. but he helps in other ways too. the egyption Ra hoor kut maybe? he says yes.
SHIN TIM RA: He has NEVER been mentioned anywhere I've seen, but he's made himself known to me. a god of sex dreams? ask about focus 23 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
MICHAEL: need protection? permanently? draw his sigil with a marker pen on your back. No, I'm serious! he equals in power with marduk, they are much more closely related than people think. protection should be good for about 2 years, even after it washes off. I had to do this when he had an encounter with belial.
CAMEO/RAUM/STOLAS: nice guys, all of them. watch out for birds after you get friendly with them. They (the birds) will follow you and make sure you dont get into trouble, at least that they can pull you out of. Small white bird/crow/black and white bird. thats how I remember them when I see them. if they need you, they will make NOISE!

so, there we go. call, talk, give a drink, tell them that they can leave when they done and feel like it. in that order. no time like the present, tell us what happens

Well that's just dandy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Thanks for the response! I'm glad to see another person getting results (for selfless and selfish reaons); I will try it out and we'll see what happens.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 19 2009, 09:49 PM

dont be affraid to just level with them and just say "man, my life SUCKS! can you help me twist the bosses arm or something?".

what are you aiming for? I might know someone who might be worth trying, angel, demon, annunaki, nec, whatever, I've met quite a bit and me and my spirit seeing girlfriend (someone pushed us togeather, you have NO idea how excited I was when I found out she could see spirits. progress, was insanely fast) should be able to push you in the right direction.

Why would they say you need experience? When I first started I was taught to just go for it and learn from your mistakes.

My advice is during the rituals, be prepared, don’t be nervous or over excited, and treat them appropriately or you’ll either not accomplish anything or piss them off and get some negative black lash/physical sensation. Its kind of like calling someone up, and asking for a favor. If your stumbbling your words (um, uh, whaaaa, like, duh), begging, shouting, cussing, etc, you might not achieve much (depending on the spirit). This is from my experience, I mean you don’t have to be serious and anal. . .but yeah you get the point. Good luck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, what I want more than anything is some sort of tangible result. Physical manifestation would be excellent, but anything else that isn't purely mental would be fine too. I am also practicing meditation, both for its own benefit and for the result of being able (supposedly) to control a candle flame (to use a common example).

If I actually get my litmus-test result and start summoning demons or spirits, what kind of practical results would I start looking for? That's a tougher question... hmm.


That's the idea that appeals to me most. But I wanted to make sure I wasn't totally ruining my chances or something!


Sounds sensible to me. Dankeschön (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Physical manifestation huh? How about appearing in a blackened mirror? get a small picture frame, any frame really. open it up, and paint one side black with very cheap $2 or so art paint. make sure there are no streaks, and put it back togeather.. use that to call forward some people. Worked fist time around for me.

two people come to mind if you want to control flames. Paimon, and Ningishzidda. Paimon did help out my girlfriend on trying to manifest objects to the physical (its very taxing). If you choose paimon, his apposing angel is Hasiel, just in case he acts up badly.

Ningishzidda however, is suppose to be Eresh kigal and Enki's son. Half brother to Marduk. He has a lot on his plate, but he does work well. more info can be had here:http://www.halexandria.org/dward376.htm

I would choose ning over paimon, but its your choice, both can be very helpful. meditate, then stare into the blackness, not looking at anything, and all his name till you see him! use incense if you need to. have some creaming soda handy afterwards.