dmt is produced by the pineal gland when the person is under insane emotional stress, like if you are trapped under a car

and i think of jesus on the mount, doing the 'father let this cup pass from me' prayer-fit

i always wondered about that cause he knew his future, so why the fit?

perhaps it was to willingly induce massive dmt production?

so, if you work yourself into a fit might also produce it?

i think i'll try working myself into a prayer-fit over swine flu or something

if you've already done this or something like it, could you please give the conditions and results here, thanks

also if you know of other methods, such as hyperventilation

I had an extreme visionary experience during a NDE where my heart stopped, the experience was very wholesome and spiritual where i travelled along a warm red tunnel where at the end, in a garden, there was a gathering of people who i felt were related to me and loved me unconditionally. The feeling of love was overwhelming and made me want to join them and stay there.

After a short while of looking into the garden, looking into their eyes and feeling their love, there was some murmering amongst them whereupon they refused to look at me anymore, and despite an intense desire to join them they would not let me. They started to turn and slowly walk away. I felt really sad at this point but nothing I could do stopped me from moving further through the tunnel away from them.

I think you may get a release of DMT during NDEs and it is my opinion that DMT induces such spiritual experiences.

The experiences I had during a 3 week bout of flu though were very different.

I had many visions during the flu last year, but these contained more unearthly entities and had a feeling of the conveying of knowledge rather than love. The experience was more like skrying.

I don't know how to naturally reproduce the effects of DMT at will. There is always the shamanistic approach. . .

Flagellation produces an enormous histamine rush that supposedly will bring on hallucinations and altered consciousness.It's a time honored tradition most recently taken up by the Xtians to whip up religous fervor. "Hit me with your rhythym stick, make it hard, do it quick, hit me, hit me, hit me..." uh...sorry, I was transported by my muse.

DMT can be made by alkaloid reduction using isopropanol alcohol and Reed Canary grass...oops, now the FDA will try to confiscate your lawn! Idiots. Like trying to ban apricot/peach pit kernels 'cause they contain laetril, a drug used to fight cancer. Why not bleach? but...I digress.

The human body produces endorphins which have all the synthetics beat, hands down! A pain killer, a euphoriant, a hallucinogen...the list goes on.

Stanislav Grof uses a technique in psychotherapy he refers to as Holotropic Breathwork, basically a combination of hyperventilation and evocative music with a therapist on hand. the reported experience is typically very similar to nde, dmt or other tryptamine experiences (he developed the technique to replace lsd therapy when it became illegal and says they are equally effective).

i've also heard of dark room retreats being said to utilise endogenous dmt for enlightenment experiences. the theory being that when in darkness for long periods melatonin levels rise affecting the tryptophan-serotonin-melatonin pathways which ultimately leads to the pineal gland releasing dmt and maois. here's the first site i found, can't vouch for their credibility (spotted a few chemistry errors) but gives an idea

http://www.universal-tao.com/dark_room/enlightenment.html

what else? sensory deprivation tanks, dancing frenzies, fasting, meditation...if dmt is responsible in the other instances then it's plausible it plays a part in other visionary states. i know that when Rick Strassman (author of 'dmt: the spirit molecule') spoke with his buddhist monastery telling them what he was studying and what he felt the implications were, they disapproved and discouraged his further research. an interesting topic that no doubt stirs a bit of controversy.

they are making the spirit molecule into a documentary, here's the trailer if anyone is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v905fhCqq2Y

This post has been edited by CosmicInferno: Apr 26 2009, 04:54 AM

i'm using nicotine withdrawal (very useful) combined with fasting meditation and letting the fear rise up until it is out of control - some success last night, with just fear alone (very cathartic i must say to let the fear monster loose) but no warm wet tunnel yet, definitely a euphoric high

DMT deffinately produces a trip. But MDMA is more fun (my opinion). I actually have not incorperated drugs into any of my spiritual endevours over the past few years. Ever since I've gotten really good at manipulating my dreams, I've never experienced any kind of trip more profound than dreaming. I mean, you lay down you basically lose concsiousness and are suddenly taken to this indescribably surreal world where anything is possible and the laws of physics do not apply and then you just wake up, usually feeling rested. The only down falls are when you don't get enough sleep or when you wake in a small pool of drool.... No acid or any other kind of trip has come close to that. And its perfectly safe!

What I would like to know is if in these dream states if my body does not release pleasure hormones as well. That might explain why some of these dreams are so intense and ecstatic.

What I have experimented with though is sleep deprivation. (which I highly suggest caution) Basically on weeks where I know I won't have to do anything important for a few days I basically try to make myself stay awake as long as possible while only drinking water and nothing else. At the same time I work out a lot and meditate during this time to basically induce really intense trance like states. I guess you could argue that under such trance states I'm technically asleep, but its been affective anyway.

That's all pretty neat. I've always wanted to try a sensory deprivation tank.

I also enjoy trance states of almost any sort. I've never met a (psychoactive) drug I didn't like, and I've met a lot. Oddly enough, though, I have difficulty reaching any sort of "natural" altered state. I've tried sleep deprivation, and while the whole zoned-out keep-falling-almost-asleep-for-a-couple-seconds thing is cool, the tiredness gets to me too much for it to be very enjoyable. Maybe I should try meditation while so deprived.

I haven't tried fasting, but I know nicotine withdrawal just makes me feel sick. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 27 2009, 01:28 AM

i know at least Strassman has speculated that dmt may be released in smaller amounts during sleep and be somewhat responsible for dreaming, particularly rem. alien abduction experiences was another area he unexpectedly found himself studying also, after so many of the volunteers in his dmt studies reported contact with similar strange entities

when speaking of the pineal gland as the third eye and seat of the soul, i remember he made an interesting note - in Tibetan buddhism it is considered that it takes 49 days for the soul to reincarnate into it's next body, which is the same duration it takes for the pineal gland to develop in the human fetus - interesting coincidence!
to consider that dmt truely is some kind of spirit molecule does make a lot of sense. it's perceptively inactive in the daily lives of most people, only released at time when it facilitates transition between planes - birth, near death and death, and at all the times we find a way in between (spontaneously if we're lucky!).



i'm no scientist but i believe that would be the case. even if dmt is confirmed as central to the previously mentioned states then there's sure to be a whole lot more to it (there always is isn't there?), i imagine a cascade of events involving a number of neurochemicals, there's probably more of them than we know now. full dmt release could be the climax of a series of events involving endorphins, serotonin, dopamine etc, then the 'not-so-peak' mystical states may not reach the top but still be consciousness altering...that's how i picture it anyhow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif) i have read that it's been proven that twirling (ie dervish) and music both cause an increase in dopamine, and waking up feeling refreshed and energised is a sign of replenished dopamine stores...so in essence this is the long way around of me saying yes i reckon there would be multiple pleasure hormones being released and fluctuating during sleep and no doubt affect dreams (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

but it does bring me to another point i was going to make (if you can bear with me), that even if dmt is responsible for a number of these peak states then it doesn't necessarily mean it's the only 'key'. without even going into the non-drug methods, other substances like mescaline and salvinorin which are very different to the tryptamines still arguably provide access to the other side, so why not other endogenous biochemical conditions? unless we wish to go on to say that all of said drugs in some way cause the release of dmt in their peak if they provide such an experience?

i've also considered that perhaps spiritual training is a form of 'priming' the neurological conditions, like moving up through the biochemical cascade i mentioned earlier, which induces release of and/or makes available dmt sources eventually. eg meditation practice = improved mood, improved awareness and mental function etc = 'improved' neurochemistry = better receptivity of dmt effects/more likely to induce dmt release ...but i'll stop yapping for now!

This post has been edited by CosmicInferno: Apr 27 2009, 05:45 AM

That's probably the case. I've only taken introductory nurology and neuropsychology so I'm not an expert either. But I do know that while being observed through fMRI we can see that areas of the brain activate randomly. So I am sure that in the process neurotransmitters of all kinds are released. For example if you have a nightmare or a dream that is just scary, when you wake your heart will be racing and so forth due to adrenalin release.



Most substances that have an intoxicating affect do so because of several main factors; they contain chemicals that mimic neurotransmitters, they cause the body to release neurotransmitters and the body percieves such chemicals as toxic and reacts to it as though it were under attack.

my attempt worked great - 'cascading the neurochemicals' by 'letting go the fear' and winding myself up into an emo prayer-fit, but i missed the mark slightly

i didn't cry bloody tears yet (jesus on the mount, where the dmt goes overload until it flows out the eye ducts), but the euphoric state is tremendous thereafter - unfortunately it doesn't last and is offset by the chemical imbalance induced by the emo state - next time, more 'insane humping' prayer and less hyperventilation and straining

i've pretty much beat this thing to death - lots of ecstatic experiences, visions and meetings, but too many withdrawal problems (very similar to puberty - mood swings and sex problems)

Interesting points, especially the earlier where it comes from times of insane stress.

I've noticed that the times that I finally stop nitpicking and just start feeling more spiritual than usual are times when my life really is in danger.

Some visuals come into mind vividly when I consider this, and the idea that DMT comes in during stressful times, and that it plays a part in augmenting the brain's power to process metaphysical information:

Visual 1: That one scene from the game Starcraft where Tassadar realizes he is on a collision course with the Overmind, and accepts death as his fate. By letting go of the chains of mortality that bind him, he taps into nearly infinite energy, overloads his body, and becomes the epicenter of a psionic shockwave.

Visual 2: (I don't know where this is from but I remember seeing it somewhere) Someone is trapped by some force/entity/adversary and this enemy threatens to assimilate/take over said victim's body. Victim struggles, but cannot get free. Victim realizes what he is and what he can do, and smirks, realizing that if he charges his spirit, then the enemy has to absorb that too, and thus changes the nature of/destroys the enemy in the process. Halfway through the absorbtion process, the enemy panics, realizing what has happened, but is too late, as the new energy from the victim rips through the enemy and his parasitic assimilation setup like bleach on a black cloth.

The whole idea here is that I have had times where, upon realizing the futility of fighting, and just accepting fate, I gain true freedom of choice and power, and then act however I want in any degree of magnitude I wish.

There were times, years ago, where some 'friends' (a term loosely used in this case) threatened to curse me, telling me to my face. At that point, I swear I felt almost like Goku going super-sayajin, figuratively speaking.

On an added note, I noticed that when I meditated and put myself into the visuals as the one experiencing them, in first person, I feel the energy coursing through me as I take their stress on as my own.

Just some interesting points I thought I had to add.

ohh ohh ohh

"you're already dead" - forgot about that one!

oh wow oh wow oh wow

letting go fo the mortal chains - yes - and does dmt play a role in such acceptance of death?


i'm going away to work on this for awhile

back soon, i promise

The Saga continues...

The Goodbye Thread

YES YES YES. Tassadar is my all-time favorite character. Mightiest of all, wisest of all, kindest of all. En taro Tassadar, brave warrior... :'(

Edit: I believe he purposefully set himself on a collision course, didn't he?


I'm not familiar with that particular story, but I read a similar one in which an alien parasite takes over human bodies. The main character lets it transfer itself to his body, and right when it's finally fully in his body and cannot go back, he kills himself (after first explaining what's going on by writing in his blood, for those who will find him).

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: May 26 2009, 03:08 PM

esoterica,

i find it a little surprising that you experience 'withdrawal' symptoms from these experiments, if you'd care to elaborate i'd be interested to hear more.

it seems unusual to me as i (and most others i know) don't experience any symptoms like that when exogenous dmt is used, it makes me wonder what the difference is...
would i experience the same if i tried dmt multiple times in a short period?
or is it the result of other endogenous chemicals (ie stressors) that are absent with exogenous administration?
is it purely your ritual set and setting?
rhetorical questions really, just thinking out loud.

ime and what i've seen, i would say it is more typical that someone have improved sex drive and mood stability following dmt, i know that has been the case for me a number of times (it's like hitting reboot most of the time for me, clears out the mental garbage and reminds me what's really important in life, and usually dont feel like going back anytime soon haha) only negative reactions i know seem mostly psychological, more related to an inability to ground/integrate the lesson/experience rather than a 'bad comedown' or anything. every body is very different tho, just find this interesting

without encouraging illegal activities (lol), it would be great to hear your comparison of endogenous and exogenous dmt experiences. i've also wondered if using some herbs or nutrients could benefit your experiments -
tryptophan, precursor for serotonin/melatonin/(dmt?)
or MAO inhibitor herbs such as syrian rue or b caapi (MAOIs reduce the effect of endogenous MAOs - the enzyme responsible for deactivating mona amines such as dmt)
usual precautions with using any such supplements of coarse

any particular qualities to the visions that seem unique to these experiences? would be interesting to compare against exo dmt also

anyway love ya work! enjoy your time away and i look forward to reading more of your posts in the future