So I was raised christian but I never followed the bible or believed it to be real from god. I did pray to god but have since stopped. I feel that I have lost connection with god that has always been with me for as long as I can remember since I stopped praying. But I fear that if this god is the christian god I am on a 1 way ticket to hell for magick. The trouble is I feel strongly about god and about magick both seem and feel right to me. But I don't feel anything for the bible it is more I feel it is wrong and is not the work of the god I believe in. But I do not know who or whatever you like the god I believe is? Please forgive my lose term of god and who, is, etc.

If anyone can give thoughts on this or has gone through something like this I would love to hear from you. I don't know if it is just a lack of myself wanting or not ready for change since I have related to god being able to give me peace after I die instead of torture or if its something else. Should I keep praying to the god I relate to and keep doing magick since I have the same strong feeling towards them both? I truly wish I was better at magick so I could use it to help me get answers. Does anyone else have answers for god christian or any other major religion. From what I've read you can summon spirits to get knowledge from and divination. Has anyone ever asked if one of the religions is correct?


Thanks to all and again take my use of who, is, god with a grain of salt for I lack the words to explain it.

another question as old as time, with as many answers i'm afraid

the dualistic christian-ized god (who was king before christ the prince took his throne), that ancient-of-days schizophrenic tetragrammaton god of jealousy and wrathfulness and peace and forgiveness, is just one facet of the great jewel that is the real god, the pinnacle, mate to the fruitful holy spirit of earth, father to the lady who's lamp is the moon, unknowable says the gnostic, 'hallowed' given as its name by ancient writers, sexless, un-split, un-splittable, non-dualistic, truly alien, god of gods who's breath is the causal force

too complicated, i know - let's just say that there is a god and it, for it is an it not a he, has nothing to do with the storybook novel that is the bible

Does it have a view on magick?

@Your bible point, Makes since to me for I have felt that way about it for a long time that is was nothing more than a creation of man.

One could say that The Divine has no opinion on anything - opinions are a dualistic concept, and have to exist amidst at least two poles.

However, in the ultimate unification of the Divine, there is nothing that exists that isn't supposed to, no action taken that isn't supposed to be taken. We ourselves, our higher selves, are all expressions of this unity, temporarily encapsulated in varying degrees of Ego, separation. Your higher self will judge you, and you may either recognize it as a deity or for what it really is - but it has a higher self to answer to as well which will judge it at the end of it's allotted tenure, and so on.

But the way in which that higher self judges you is more deeply personal than the judgement warned of in the bible - and most other holy books as well. Somewhere inside we all know there will be a kind of judgement to come one day, and some have taken that inner instinct and wielded it as a weapon of fear upon the masses. Your higher self, however, your own personal Deity in a way, will not judge you as good or evil, but on your faith in yourself and in it's guidance, and on your progress learning lessons in life, coping with the obstacles it put before you physically, mentally, and spiritually.

Magick is completely natural - it is the application of principles inherent to creation, on every level. When we engage in magical practice, we aren't defying any kind of divine law, we are participating in the ongoing act of creation. Now, we can use magic for subjectively good or evil intentions, but our higher selves view us with compassion, as children which are yet unrealized expressions of themselves.

It is your own intentions, your feelings, and your path through life which determines the weight of your heart when you die.

peace

Ok i will give you my experience with this i was raised babtist. But i never felt close to god in my heart or sould mind etc. i only believed in him to please my family and others around me. I soon came to realize that i was only lying to myself putting up this sharaed. But i was scared if i turned away from god i would burn in hell im not going to lye as you probably know it is scary. But think of it like this you have been raised your whole life i assume to believe that the devil is a bad guy. So its natural to assume you would be scared of him its just like someone telling you your whole life you breath carbon dioxide and omite oxygen wich is a lie (Sorry best example i could give). And i come up to you one day and said you breath oxygen you would think im lying and that i was wrong. Its all a matter of how you are raised and what your raised to believe but you have become wise and ventured out to find your true path which is what i did and im much happier. Personally after lots of reasearch it seems to me that 1. In the christian sence God is the bad guy it should be visa versa for many reasons i will not get into. And that the devil has been used for years all throught history to scare the ignorant man into devoting his life and usally MONEY. So what im getting at is the devil concept is a way of controlling the common people who follow blindly its all a power thing and those who get out of that like you and many others have. Are the ones who are the ones who will not follow blind and find the true path. Sorry this is just my own opinion on the matter but again if you want to remain christian that is fine do what makes YOU happy dont do anything to please others. Good Luck if you need any more help from me i would be glad to give any help i can offer.

Thank you all it has helped allot, dream your post helped the most I would say. @Grim I never was christian I was raised it like you. I was told to be it and allowed the fear to mislead me for awhile tell I found magick and ever since my mind has been in a battle of trying to get me away from that fear and lie it felt like. After reading the posts last night and today tho I feel probable better then I have felt in my whole life. Like I have finally found out something I been wondering forever.

So again thank you all very much. Wish I could rep all 3 of you =)

This post has been edited by NetHermit: May 24 2010, 03:42 AM

You are very welcome with time that fear will subside it takes time its not an over night thing for me even after months of reasearch on magick and occult and the sort i still was scared of the hell factor but i have come to realize there is nothing to be afraid of. Im glad that you feel that way though good luck on your journey may it be a good one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) .

I myself have grown up christian and been groomed to pray to the christian god. Recently, I have also stopped praying and started exploring. I found that ancient Christians (jesus included) actually practiced magic (they used talismans, and even the pentagram was a holy symbol at one point) but it wasnt until the rise of the catholic church and extermination of all things "heathen" (basically things that could threaten the church, like magic). So dont feel guilty about your tie to magic and God. God's first messengers practiced magic, as did every civilization before the fall of the roman empire.

You also stated that "has anyone ever asked if one of the religions is correct"; I would like to say that I believe ALL religions are correct. ALl religions find their own salvation and believe in higher forces. Since the dawn of man there hasnt been a SINGLE tribe of people who have not had a diety, god and/or goddess, to pray to and an afterlife to expect based on human actions. In the end, it boils down to being a decent person, and your guardian will take you to your salvation.

Also, if you REALLY think about the Christian system: all sinners go to hell, we are all sinners, even the nicest people are sinners. It's possible that if you are "sent to eternal damnation" you will meet some pretty nice people there just like you who were graded on a too harsh system that was designed to instil fear into undereducated minds.

Write me if you have ANY questions about this. I'm on my own way of finding religions, and also I'm a history enthusiast and can talk to you about the anthropology and history of religion if you want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was born a Roman Catholic, and raised on a firm belief in god. I went to church and said my prayers, and believed in God, and Jesus, still do. However, deep down I felt it wasn't right for me.

I can feel the energy and love in church and I ken praying my energy was going to to him but I always felt out of tuned with it. It wasn't until I discovered my path in Shamanism that I felt I was where I belonged spiritually. Take it from experience, go with what you feel is right. I cut my self off from my spiritual side with Shamanism and I felt lost, and withdrawn. Cost me my happiness for years as well as my marriage, and friendships.

If that were the case, if the christians are 'completely right' about god, heaven & hell, and everything else.
Then I would be twice as glad I'm not one.
And I'd have some unflattering things to say to this petty megalomaniac child of theirs.

If christianity were all true, I'd be a satanist, instead of just satanism-friendly.

Doesn't it say word for word in the bible somewhere that if you simply make a Pascal's wager you're saved though? I recall that the cases of damnation in the bible simply existed, but there was never a bold "Jesus hates fags and muslims and you're going to hell for being one of them" or something along the lines of that with a long list.

This post has been edited by kaboom13: Jun 3 2010, 04:06 PM

If you want some extra material to chew on, which I believe you may, look up the "God of Spinoza." You want a connection with the divine, but your current understanding does not allow for it. So, study a new perspective. The God of Spinoza is a concept which would definitely be an asset to anyone serious about the study of metaphysics.

haha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Laie_58.gif)
I'll be glad to burn in hell and have lived my life to its fullest and by "my" will.

To the O.P. ,
I sympathize with you , have been through something similar. Most of us (raised christians) have to pass through this "fear phase", severing bonds is hard and it makes you feel lonely,lost and you feel like you blindly lived your life under the commands of a "God" you don't really know.

It's totally worth it, I promise that the magickal journey you're embarking on is really rewarding.

It took me a year to cut my bonds with the Christian egregore and to discover what the true essence of Divine is.

Me, personally, found that substituting the all knowing side of myself for god was a much needed step. The idea of having someone to guide me was very important to a few aspects of my consciousness. I dispise calling it god for myself so I let myself fill that connection. Perhaps that will work for you? Perhaps it won't.

honestly it says all kinds of things. much of it contradictory.

it says that if i don't ritually kill animals, to atone for the dire sin of having a period, that I will be unclean before god and cannot come near the temple.
it says that if kids disobey parents, its sometimes ok to just kill them.
it says that god promised some land to Moses & the hebrews, but turns out there were people already living there, so they killed every man, woman, child, livestock, and pet, and burned and smashed every structure utterly, to purge the 'promised land' of the evil taint of the pesky indigenous population.
it says that if you have weak faith, you could possibly go to hell, so don't question things or think for yourself, just try real hard to have that faith.
it says that gay men are evil simply because they're taking the role of a woman, and that you should kill them for stooping to such a horrible low. (lesbians are biblically off the hook)
it condones slavery, genocide, capital punishment for purely verbal crimes... I could go on all day.
most of it isn't even original stories, just borrowed material given a hebrew slant. And the 'new testament' is the concoction of a pantheistic roman council trying to put together a state religion (by order of a pagan emperor).

Seriously, if that book were actually all 'true', then I'd be first in line at the demon recruiting office.
fortunately, it's not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) so there's no pressing need to join the resistance.
__

In my own path, I have had extensive dealings with a being which I would refer to as a 'true deity', or an actual infinite being (I differentiate 'true deity' from "religious deity"). My path with her is unique and 'customized', however, I have noticed some particular parallels with Tantra, and to a lesser degree with Taoism.
I don't know if that's helpful.

This post has been edited by Kath: Jun 5 2010, 10:09 AM

The way I see it a religion is meant to help you through times of trouble and make you feel complete, so if Christianity isn't doing this for you is it really the path for you? In my opinion magic is just as natural as the air we breathe, if "God" didn't want us to practise magic then we wouldn't have that ability at all. My advice to you and anyone else who has this problem (which seems to be a very common one!) is that you need to do what feels right and works for you - explore Christianity to its fullest, explore magic, explore mysticism and religion from around the world and see what you do and don't agree with. You'll soon see parallels between a lot of religions and belief systems and find what truly works for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Also, something I found helpful when making this transition myself - the ancient Egyptian belief system is VERY similar to Christianity; Ma'at (the ancient Egyptian law of universal balance), Osiris and the ankh are all found within Christianity. I'd suggest looking into this belief system as the parallels you will notice will make the whole process much smoother. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

I'm afraid of hell, too, because I'm afraid of death and going to hell would be a terrible way to die as any. You can have as many explanations thrown at you as you want but I think when you've been raised that way you never completely shun the notion that The Bible COULD, possibly, be real. It's hard to say, though. I'll just try to live life the way I want, reguardless of what fiery abyss may or may not be waiting for me at the end of the ride.

I have 10 years of perfect attendance pins for sunday school, read the bible in 3 different translations (cover to cover), accepted jesus christ as my lord and savior in a conversion experience at 16, got about 800 hours of catechism class in grade school, etc. etc. etc.

Trust me, you can shed any and all of the notions they drill into you.
Since becoming a non-christian, I've faced death very 'up close & personal', and without even so much as a nagging curiosity about there being any validity in my former religion.
It does take time to deprogram all that brainwashing though.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure don't believe in the dude anymore, just saying, there's still a little part of me that wonders. A very tiny, young part, but it's definitely there.

This post has been edited by Reaper: Jun 11 2010, 11:40 AM

The Bible is contradictory because it is a library of books by different authors whom have diverse opinions and experiences.

Christ is the Magnum Magus. Chist exorcised , interpreted dreams , healed , raised the dead , and had visions and mystica unia.

Chakras, Kundalini and the tattwas predate Christianity in the Vedas but The 7 Golden Lampstands of the body are described in the Bible and these are the 7 chakras. The trifold cord is in the Bible and it is the triple flame on the human energy body it is the funicular to monad and God in Ida, Pingala and Sushumna.

Dream Interpretation , Projection in a merkabah , communication with angels and demons,exorcism, healing , life after death , communication with deceased spirits and communication with God are all in the Bible . The Bible is full of magick.

There is a Biblical Emerald Tablet or rather two of them one in Ecclesiastes and another in Revelations some count a third in Psalms. In the Gnostic Gospel of Judas Christ asks the apostles to come out of themselves as the perfect man and only Judas can. Then he projects out of himself as a circle of angels and then as a legion of angels. He asks the apostles to follow him to Barbello the home of his Grandmother in heaven but only Judas can try. Judas laments that he was able to follow Christ to the realm but he can not enter through door but sees the light emanating through the crack on the floor. The Cosmic Christ continues to teach to all with great love irregardless of their path or their belief system. He teaches healing ,ascension alchemy, exorcism, peace and forgiveness

Not all magick is non Christian. Not all Magick is against God . For example, Kaballah , Mysticism, Healing , Exorcism , Projection , Mediation , Mediumship , Hermetic Magick et cetera are not against God .

The dualities of Heaven and Hell , good and evil and Angels and demons does not have its origins in Christianity. Hels exist in many pantheons
Heavens do to. Demons are part of the ancient Vedic literature of the Hindu faith and Buddhist philosophy as well as the Abrahamic Religions.

xoxoxo aunt clair - don't forget the light body effect of mary magdelene, where the soldiers stripped her looking for charms, etc, and she turned radiant as the sun and they all ran away

sweet reference for unia mystica (the mystical union with the exegesis comprising of all things), arndt; the four books of true christianity, circa 1610