Okay, I've been on a horrifying and shameful Tolkien binge lately. Literally, horrifying. Three weeks and I read the Hobbit, all three Lord of the Rings books and the Silmarillion. I'm now working on the unfinished tales. Those of you who have access to the box of spells forum (for those who don't... you'll discover many things by the time you reach thirty posts, and access to more forums will be your reward) may have seen my spell for large-scale protective shielding. I got the idea from the Silmarillion. This is the point of this post: to point out the wonderful ideas for spells and things that books can give us. So these books have given me great ones (seeing as the majority of books that include magic are distinctly Harry Potter-esque in the style of the spells used; wave a wand and it will rain candy, the gold ideas are few and far between) and I was wondering: what books have given you great (or good... or average... or bad... you get the point) spell ideas?

I found a spell named "Dr. Dee's Dragon-Summonation" in a book called "Dragonology" by "Ernest Drake", which while apparently intended as a fictional spell to entertain the reader, I actually found to be a very potent protective spell when performed with the appropriate intent and visualisation. I'd really recommend "Dragonology" to anyone who is interested in Dragon magic, even if it's a fiction book! It has a spell section towards the end of the book with spells that I may attempt and that others may find useful, and there is also another book in the series which is called "Working With Dragons", which I also found a great read and would highly recommend!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

I'm just curious, where exactly do they come from with this book? Do they imply them to be once living physical creatures?

Also, what's with this whole general thing about dragons being these highly intelligent magical creatures? Are we claiming that this cryptozoology is a competent, accepted field of study?

Putting aside books about magick I think the old works of the Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Celts, Norse and tribal narratives have given me a sound understanding of what is possible with magick and how to go about it. But for pure inspiration, and its a tad embarrassing, the Dresden Files though they are filled with admittedly Hollywood sorcery are quite useful. They tend to embellish in the results of a spell rather than play with the metaphysics of magick like Harry Potter.

Fiction is another way to understand our world- sometime is better. Goethe's Faust is a good example, though fiction it relates a humanistic perspective of a magickal practice, covering its benefits and follies. Shakespeare's Tempest relates neo-platonic rites of a mage, and midsummer's night dream contains a lot of folk/fae magick. The Tales of Alvin Maker are a good source of material for folk magick, voodoo, and natural magick - geomancy, laylines and the like- fun to read too. But in general, the best sources of information and inspiration come from ages when magick was more common. In our age magick in books and films is often just fanciful fluff.

Philosophy is a good place to look as well, C. G. Jung being the most common. My opinion being that sympathetic magick works best when one knows the architecture of the mind. Similarly, academic research into historical occult practices are full of useful inspirational sparks. The Magic in History Series is particurlay good.

--edit--
I forgot the holy books of most any religion but Jewish and Gnostic mysticism contain the bulk of human oriented magick.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Jul 29 2010, 08:11 AM

I have that book and adore it. Thank you so much for this, it made my day. Please, elaborate on the methods you use on this spell, it sounds interesting!! I found some of the spells from Wizardology (made by the same company) to be the same way. You might also be interested in Egyptology.

Kaboom, it is not up to you to judge any field of study. I guarantee that most other people who dismiss cryptozoology also dismiss magick - which is significantly less logical, I will add. I will point out that the platypus was once a subject of cryptozoology and that even when one was brought before scientists they STILL claimed it was a stitched-together fake. Open your mind or close your mouth, because you're sounding like a true cretin.

I love the hasty response. Given that is the case, enlighten me. Bring me what information you know about these fire breathing-creatures. Where have they walked the earth? Where did Saint George end up burying his dragon?

On the topic of cryptozoology, could we also involve vampires and werewolves? I've seen aplenty of personal blogs professing their discovery that they were children of the shadow too.

I've not read Wizardology or Egyptology, in fact I hadn't even heard of them! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif) I will definitely be looking into Egyptology as Kemetic magic is an area of magic I'm very passionate about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

To carry out the spell I very simply went into a deep meditative state, visualised myself with the necessary tools and performing the spell as described in the book and actually said the magic words out loud. The key thing with this, though, is to REALLY focus on the intent of the spell, otherwise you're basically acting out a spell from a fiction book and will probably have very little success.

And Kaboom13; dragons are found in many mystical traditions around the world, and I personally am not claiming them to be creatures found on the physical plane of existence, but I have encountered dragon spirits and they are a diverse type of spirit, much like most types of spirits! "Dragonology", as I mentioned, is a fiction book, the spells contained in it would be considered fictional by most (but if we want to get in depth here then they're just as "real" as any other spells) but they provide very effective guided meditations and ideas for spells and rituals. Besides... who said works of fiction have no magical significance? Take a look at the Necronomicon!

Ethereal Sight, if you want any more help on this subject then feel free to message me about it, and Kaboom13, go research the vast history of dragons and you may realise that the study of dragons within magic is not cryptozoology! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

This post has been edited by NetherSpirit: Jul 29 2010, 04:44 PM

Lol - you chose the wrong person to ask for dragon information as proof of your point.

Where did these fire-breathing creatures walk the earth? The answer is everywhere. In every culture the dragon or a creature synonymous with it is a part of the spiritual belief - even Christianity. There is, of course, Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered Serpent - a Mesoamerican deity. There's Saint George's dragon as far as Christianity goes. In China there is, of course, a tradition of dragon-worship. Where Europe is concerned; do I need to provide examples? They're everywhere - Celts, Saxons and Angles all had dragons in their mythology. Northern Europeans had Sigurd the Dragon-Slayer and Greece had Python, usually represented as a serpent similar in shape to the Japanese and Chinese dragons. West Africans worshipped the "cosmic serpent." The fact that every culture, even those which had literally no contact for thousands of years, has a documentation of a belief in dragons makes it extremely unlikely that the creature (or creatures, as the case may be) never existed.

Cryptozoology is not the study of mythology, as you seem to think in the depths of misinformation, but the study of animals purported to exist but of which no evidence aside from eyewitnesses, photographs and videos has been collected. Vampires and werewolves are not encompassed in this, and are thus a different matter entirely. Cryptozoology deals more with Bigfoot, Skunk Ape, Mothman, etc.

I'm not asking you to believe in Bigfoot, I'm asking you to please not delude yourself into thinking you have the right to decide whether or not a completely valid branch of science to which many have dedicated their professional lives is utter garbage. You have no right to make such decisions and no right to impose such small-minded views on others. You can think what you want, but unless you can scientifically prove that no animal exists that we don't know about then keep your mouth shut; your belief that cryptozoology is garbage is actually mathematically less likely to be true than that cryptozoology is a valid field of study. So stop spewing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/horse.gif) and thinking you have a right to decide such things on a purely whimsical basis.

I think we need to take a deep breath and calm down. Maybe, take a walk or play a music instrument for a few hours before reading on.

This is pretty educational to me, hence why I'm continuing this discussion.



You've told me what cryptozoology isn't. What exactly is it? Why exactly aren't werewolves and vampires not included? Living dead that consumed the life forces of others existed throughout all of the world. I could probably reference specific incidents in Han to Tang dynasty lore and mythos that explicitly document once-alive humans consuming others. On werewolves, and lunar based physical shifts~ they've also been documented throughout history. Take amazonian jaguar shamans, from what I understand. Though it isn't a compulsive shift, they still do occur. Why exacltly do they not count?

Or really, what does cryptozoology count as? Where does the brightline between mythology and cryptozoology count in as? Modern mythos, such as Mothman, and ancient mythos, such as the chinese cardinal beasts occur, but where, why and how do you differ between a study of mythos and where does valid documentation begin? If saint George's Dragon isn't mythos, why wouldn't the Celtic Banshee not be included into this?

Personally, I think the difference is that cryptozoology is looking for creatures in the physical realm, whereas mythology is a much broader study and could arguably include cryptozoology, making cryptozoology a part of mythology, but not making mythology and cryptozoology one and the same.

Just my opinion though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

I came across a great example of this the other day, but now I forgot. The Book of Jhereg and the Taltos series as a whole has some neat ideas on witchcraft, if nothing else; it's not the main focus, though.

I second the Dresden Files.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Jul 29 2010, 11:31 PM

I'd say NetherSpirit pretty much got it - the difference is that cryptozoology is scientific and mythology is religious - the two do sometimes overlap, but myths and legends are different from modern sightings.

On the other hand, humans aren't animals. Zoology is the study of animals and cryptozoology is a form of zoology. Human creatures are not animals (most of the time, anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) and zombies? WTF man...

I'm now not following at all. Every single one of your references about dragons are over four hundred years old in age. Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent is the Aztec god of fertility. The Chinese Ocean Branch heads and the rain god are worshipped and taught in mythos. Saint George's dragon is a misconstrued myth from thousands of years ago.

Are you using mythos or ancient sightings where witnesses happened to throw thousands upon thousands of their hours to worshipping these mysterious sightings.

Would UFOs count? They're sighted often.


Wait. What? What are you saying are animals? I mean, wikipedia might be wrong, but it claims explicitly that we very much are. Why can't we discuss werewolf magick and vampires while we're at it? Is it because we don't have vampire sightings anymore, or that they're slowly 'coming out of the coffin' more and more?

As fun as this thread is, I suggest moving cryptozoology Vs. Mythology to the cryptozoology page where it is not off topic.


Lets keep the forums clean and tiddly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dots.gif)

Sorry, fatherjhon to continue this here, but it's become the topic at hand.

Humans are not included in zoological study, and are thus in this context not animals.

There are plenty of modern dragon sightings... use the internet.

UFOs are NOT ANIMALS.

Vampire sightings were never the norm. Vampires, as we know them, were invented by Bram Stoker in "Dracula." The term, let alone the creature in question was invented by Bram Stoker. There were similar demons in myths, but vampires are a relatively recent creation in comparison to what we've been discussing. Cryptozoology is not cryptotheology and does not encompass religious and/or magical beings (werewolves, vampires, etc.), merely animals. Just. Animals.

Ohh~

So are you saying that the egregores such as the Rainbow Serpent and The Dragon King of the Oceans are merely monsters, and not gods? Where does mythos begin and secular sightings end? I'm getting the impressiong that cryptozoology is an exact science and you're saying that mythology is irrelevant.


Cryptozoology is reserved for animals from this planet only, right?

On vampires, the internet is chock full of blogs of plenty of vampires coming out, having lived for hundreds of years. Bram Stoker's creation of a 'vampire' is indeed his own, but sanguinarians and other humanoid life forms have, in context of cryptozoology have existed for hundreds upon hundreds of years. In fact, I think there are more blogs about real vampires than those of dragons being sighted

Could a mod move a chunk of this thread to the appropriate board? I sort of don't want to copy and paste this whole thing, as interesting as it is.

This post has been edited by kaboom13: Aug 1 2010, 11:42 PM

Can dragons breathe fire, or is this myth? Serious question.

I have no idea. It may be that all can, only some can, or that none can; nobody really knows.