I'm currently working at a care home for the elderly/blind.
I've been working for about 3 months an i can see my-self working their for about a couple of years.
I can do a little bit of improvised energy healing but I'm not practiced, one of the reasons for getting the job was to get a better idea of how to handle it.

At the moment I'd much rather keep anything i do as covert as i can, also safety is a big issue, it's been my experience that powerful stuff can disrupt delicate existing balances,
some residences (one of which is 105!) are clearly gifted individuals while others are clearly coping with old age quite badly.

Here is a list of the major illnesses I'm working with here;
Blindness- over half of the residence are entirely or partially blind.
Muscle weakening- when an old person stops being able to move by themselves it's hard to keep what mobility they have left, which makes my life harder!
Bone's- this one old lady creeks like 4 people grinding their teeth whenever she moves, it's clearly agony!
Memory- When this goes it really effects the persons ability to cope with everything around them, especially if they are blind.
Diabetes- about half suffer from type 2, it can cause so many other health problems i can't begin to relate them all.
Dementia- it's fascinating to get to know these individuals but very hard to look after them, the confusion they can feel is quite terrible.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wheelchair.gif)

Obviously i can't cure all these, i would be a fool for thinking i could but I'm still going to try my best for them.
Tips? Ideas? I'm an industrious fellow an I'm sure with some time i could implement something quite far fetched.

When i started the job i thought i might be able to create some kind of ESP for the blind, i still think i could, but it's going to be a LOT of work.
Astral constructs designed to bestow easy ESP? that's the ticket but I'm still dubious as weather or not to include anything else while I'm at it..

All advice/comments welcome!

I've taught taiji/ tai chi classes in retirement homes before. Of course you would have to find a decent taiji teacher, but it does provide exercise to strengthen older people's muscles and bones. It also helps with their balance so they are less likely to take falls and hurt themselves. It can be modified so that even people in wheelchairs can perform at least the upper body portions of the taiji sets. Often healing people involves teaching them to heal themselves. Perhaps if you study taiji in a few years you can teach it yourself. It also generally involves qigong exercises that would teach you to use qi as healing energy on others.

Thank you, that's a good idea, I've been meaning to learn Tai chi for ages, I'm sure there are class's near by so i will look into it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Teaching Tai Chi and similar exercises sounds like a very good idea. I also like the idea of using an astral construct to tap into ESP abilities, I'll be interested to see whether there's a way of doing it or not.

Since you mention keeping things "covert," I should tell you that it would be unethical to practice magick and/or energy medicine on these individuals without their consent. To do otherwise would infringe on the autonomy of these patients and/or their legal guardians to make decisions about their health care. I understand your zeal to use your powers to help others, but you absolutely need to get their consent for these things. Otherwise you'd be "curing" them based on your motivation to help and not their own volition to get better, and/or (worst case scenerio) you would just be tinkering with patients as lab rats for mad magick-science. This may not all apply to what you meant by the covert comment-- just putting it out there!

This post has been edited by monkman418: Sep 9 2010, 09:55 PM

I begrudgingly agree with you, I'd much rather just not tell anyone an thus not get any credit or blame for raised hopes.
I'd rather avoid any pressure to perform or any atheistic scoffs an doubtful sniggering.

I will probably stay covert until i have something big with a high probability of working that i could reveal.

Your right, everyone should have choice, but the debate is still open on that one, i can already think of a bunch of scenarios were that rule has to be flexible.

reminds me of the "Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards and Mental Capacity Act 2005" that i was being taught about today.

I'm just being a bit cautious.

Yep, there are exceptions, which can be exercised by persons with the qualifications to make those exceptions. This isn't something we can ethically claim the right to do as individuals outside the system.

I like your plan to keep your ideas on the DL until you've found a way to make significant, repeatable positive changes through magick/energy work...and then to announce it. If you can really figure out how to do this, you may be the next great mystical healer!

This post has been edited by monkman418: Sep 10 2010, 03:59 PM

I'm a Massage Therapist so I am doing hands on work all the time. Getting verbal permission as being the only ethical condition to do energy work healing is not completely cut-and-dry. Let me explain before shouting at me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif) lol

One position is that the person's conscious mind may not wish energy healing, but the higher self does. In this case, the receiver will accept the energy work done. You can form the intent that if the energy is not freely accepted then it will be diverted into the earth.

All human interactions are an exchange of energy. If we talk, even exchange looks, touch, etc., we are exchanging energy. Normally it isn't a large amount of energy that is exchanged, but it does occur. In my practice, clients know from the pieces of paper up on my walls that I do energy work and that it is an option. They can ask or I can ask them what kind of treatment they want. But as I mentioned, touching another person entails an exchange of energy. I do a lot of touching during the day naturally. I'm told that I have 'healing hands' so even without my focusing on performing energy work I am doing some low-level energy work healing. I don't do any focused healing work unless I am verbally told to do so, or occasionally when their or my spirit guides tell me to do so. This isn't especially common but it does happen. But the question is always at what point am I treating the client using massage and at what point has energy work become the major part of the treatment? That is an issue that I have to deal with.

Energy work healing isn't limited to touch of course. Saying a kind word, smiling, listening attentively and validating what you hear are healing. Simply being a kind or spiritual person causes you to radiate good energy-- which can have a healing effect upon the people around you. Much of it is about having good intentions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/connie_mini_oldman.gif)

Goibniu,

Here the difference is that you are working explicitly as a massage therapist who practices energy healing. You are not covertly treating people who do not know that they are being treated, nor are you using any methods of which your clients are completely unaware you practice. As long as you display your credentials as an energy healer, I don't see any real dilemma in having some gray area between practicing your energy and massage work together insofar as they are intimately connected. Personally, if I went to a massage therapist who was also an energy healer, I wouldn't be shocked or offended if some sort of energy treatment was used in addition to or in tandem with the secular massage I was receiving.

I'm not going to comment on your receiving messages from your own or another person's spirit guide, as I don't use that paradigm and I don't have the right to interfere between you and the divine. That said (and I'm sure I'm not saying anything that you don't know or haven't considered), it's important for healers of all professions to ensure that their actions are made in the best interest of the client and not motivated on behalf of satiating their own desires to help. Good intentions to help are fantastic and should be there, but it's still about the healer if that's the only motivation and the client is left out of the picture. Based on your sensitive responses on this message board, I'd be the first to say that I think you are centered on your clients, but this is a very important point to think about and emphasize in this conversation regardless.

This post has been edited by monkman418: Sep 10 2010, 09:12 PM

Goibniu, thats exactly wha i meen, i've done a diploma holistic therapy and done a lot of massage generally,
sometimes you just get to notice weather their higher understanding is willing to accept aid in this way,
it's not a black an white situation an it's necessary to execute a subtle awareness to get the go ahead for anything incentive.
Professionalism is always important.

They all know i'm a masseuse at work but basically i'm to shy to offer anyone one, they are pretty much all women staff where i work an frankly the possibility's are a little complicated.
I think i will try an pluck up the courage (an get a little practice) to try an apply my skills at work generally.

Monkman; don't you worry i know how to play the game, can't let the intentions be sourced in a personal needs unless it's a reciprocated one.
being aware of their whole an thus compassionate to their needs an choices is the major intention always in these situations.

I don't think I was clear enough here, so let me say it again: spirit guides and access to the higher self aren't my paradigm, nor are they a universal paradigm. If decisions are being made about persons based on a religious paradigm that they neither accept nor believe in, then I very much question the motivations of the persons who would place their patients in that paradigm and then make decisions on their behalf without their consent.

Unless you can prove that you can communicate with spirit guides, and that spirit guides exist, it's better left in the realm of one's personal spiritual experience. I'm not going to intrude on anyone's personal connection with the divine, but it's very dangerous to assume that we have access to anyone else's spiritual progress or experience. Without their willing participation, we cannot bring ethically bring them into our paradigm.

Consider certain Christians that make all other groups a part of their paradigm, e.g. Muslims think they're godly but they're actually forces of the devil, et cetera. To take a less extreme example, I'm sure we've all met persons in the occult field that are continually working out some kind of karmic knot. Oftentimes, they'll involve us as part of a karmic knot from a past life that we don't know about and don't have access to; maybe they have to suck up to us in this life, or have the right to be an ass to us in this life, to make up for some series of past transgressions. And now I hear that you're both claiming access to someone else's higher self, and that you have such exclusive access to it that you can make health care decisions on another person's behalf? Why not just ask the church down the street from where I live? They'll say you both really want to convert to Christianity, but are actually held forces by the devil! What if your health care providers sat by your bed and prayed you'd be forgiven for your pagan (or whatever) ways and be sent to an Abrahamic heaven as you were dying? We can't make these kinds of claims for others, even with the best intentions, unless they are willing to take part. Otherwise, it's about the healer and not the patient.

This post has been edited by monkman418: Sep 11 2010, 05:31 PM

Im sitting here nursing I sprained thumb so forgive me if I care less about spelling/grammar than normal, but i believe this its on a important issue, despite that we are all mostly in agreement

i get your point and agree with it in so far as forcing beliefs on others goes. And while I reserve a level of skepticism about talking to someones highterself (a point for another time) I also feel that there is a qualitative difference between someone who insists that you convert in order to give treatment or as in your other example someone praying to you to go to their heaven, and what Goibniu and Draw are talking about. Yes, they are preforming energy work on someone who may not be capable of deciding whether or not to opt in, but they did go for healing. True, they expect one kind -and get it- but then in the same vain they also get other types. "Energy work healing isn't limited to touch of course. Saying a kind word, smiling, listening attentively and validating what you hear are healing. Simply being a kind or spiritual person causes you to radiate good energy-- which can have a healing effect upon the people around you." Being of the opinion that we effect energetically everything and everybody we encounter anyway it seems a little extream to ignore, repress, or limit our effects simply because others are aware of it. True, as people who know its going on we have a responsibility to manage our interactions but here good intentions and careful application tailored to the person your trying to help will suffice.

And sweet buttery Eris knows I have had my share of people trying to incorporate me in their belief system, but a doctor who prays for my health irrespective of my religion is welcome (and I would think it is welcomed by others as well) in a similar way to how Goibniu gives one sort of healing then quietly and carefully gives another kind. I see no reason that the patient needs to be told, or that credentials are displayed. I'm odd in that I think help should not have to be asked for. If a healer sees something that he can fix without any major involvement or many possible complications an healer would be remiss in his calling to let the condition go on. But then I'm odd.

Umm, but why not tell the patient? I'm throwing out cases of comas, et cetera. What makes it so difficult to ask a person whether or not they want energy treatment? We're invoking the ability to communicate with someone's spirit guide to ask whether or not they want a treatment-- why not ask them in plain english?

...unless we're worried that someone might refuse treatment?

...or unless we're so worried that we'd be thought "odd" that we're going to protect ourselves at the expense of the patient's autonomy?

...or unless we don't care about what the patient wants to begin with...

This post has been edited by monkman418: Sep 11 2010, 06:51 PM

I understand Monkman where you are coming from. I like that this is a calm rational exchange of ideas rather than devolving into a measuring contest. The answer in my case is that often you don't know at the beginning of the treatment (when you normally get the permissions straightened out) that focused energy work might be part of the best treatment. Sometimes the client is asleep or not very lucid. They may be face down and unable to hear you or speak very easily. In order to have a conversation you'd pretty much have to squat under the table near their head. But getting through the explanations and permissions does break the flow of the treatment.
Having the client think I was a little bit odd hasn't been much of an issue for me. Perhaps I have been wrong in following the directions of spirit guides. I know that I am fallible. But when this has occurred I have tried to use the intent that if the energy isn't being accepted willingly then it will just ground itself. In that case, it would probably feel like it does when the person has had enough energy work and is full to overflowing. It could be that I am wrong about what it would feel like if the client's will was rejecting the energy work. I have thought about that, however treatments and therapists will never be perfect. We make decisions and we live with them.

This situation hasn't occurred very often --perhaps half a dozen times in 20 years-- but it is best to work out responses in advance. It is seldom that I get to discuss things such as this.

Yes, and also that no one is disputing that we all have good intentions here. This is a good discussion for me personally as well, because I've also thought about and tried to work out in my head whether and to what extent my spiritual leanings should affect my patients.



Based on what I (think) I know of massage work, these all seem to be sensible reasons to not ask during treatment. Still, it makes me a bit uncomfortable thinking about getting to this point in treatment without having worked it out before hand. And perhaps I'm not being realistic in thinking this could always be worked out in brief beforehand, because reality does impose its limits. I'm not a massage therapist/energy healer though either or personally involved in that field, what do you think?

I still think that the context of the treatment resolves a large part of the dilemma. If you're going to a massage therapist who also practices energy work, it makes sense that both methods would be used, though mentioning it in brief (if not getting explicit consent) would go a long ways in reiterating the context of massage/energy work to the client methinks. Otherwise, treating patients outside of this context, it seems very important from where I'm standing for the patient to know that, in addition to the obvious massage, one also employes Reiki or Therapeutic Touch (or whatnot) as a healer.



And I really don't want to go here and question whether or not this is wrong, because it might be the absolute right thing-- I have no idea! Could be that I'm just adding a layer of bureaucracy between the patient and the health care system! LOL! I'm more going for a pre divine-intervention solution to the question of using methods tied to spirituality in the context of providing effective health care. Perhaps even more reasons for the spirits to laugh at us, and what can I say to that?



Alas, yes.



I'd be very happy if my two cents made any difference in helping to resolve this dilemma. Any other ideas?

This is without doupt a far reaching subject,
determining someones will without words in order to suitably ascertain what your own 'will' should be is a fundamental aspect to the skill of being aware.
This is a natural skill people use when dealing with animals, magic, spirits an a lot more, every moment of existance is an action in some way,
fundamental magic doesn't stop happening simply because it's willed or disbelieved but one has to interpret the will of others none-verbally in order to do most things in life.
Do you ask weather its OK to say hello before saying hello?

Nothings black an white, an considering how easy it is to make a decision on a misshapen empathy, or to assume your own will is the will of another it's
hardly surprising people find solitude in simple rules or deity's, or in my case some idea of 'whole' all of which are concepts people can have enough faith in to
bypass the crushing weight of knowing your every action or inaction could be against the will of another.

We all simplify this far reaching subject because it's a subject that saturates our lives an will remain a complexity throughout,
the boundarys to which we say 'hold on, i'd better ask of this is ok' are determined by experience with ones own awareness an can't be substituted easily without
much diliberation.
In the case of using faith, the faith must be tested an strong, thus having an awareness weather your own faith is a good enough substitute for your awareness for another.

It should be said however that another's 'will' should always be in question in regards to your perception of their well-being an your own, for example;
Someone say to you 'hit me in the face with this plasma screen TV' and even if they really wanted you to do it with every fiber of their being, the choice is still yours.

Massage is one of those things that rely's almost entirely on none-verbal communication _once it's well practiced_.
You would expect a lot of 'dose this hurt?' from a beginner an probably total silence from a master.

No, but a psychiatrist will ask you (unless you're being institutionalized) whether or not you want to use antidepressants and you can say yes or no. Drugs aren't a black and white issue either, but many people simply don't want to use them and prefer other treatment options.

There may be no way of resolving the "problem" of everyday energy interactions and transfers, because persons who are aware of them can't necessarily turn them off. Like other health professionals with various specialities, energy healers simply might need to hold themselves to a higher standard regards their specialty to begin with, since they are privy to and naturally use knowledge of which other persons are unaware.

But I'm not focusing on everyday energetic interactions. I'm more interested in delineating the ethics of using focused energy treatments and/or casting (as intended) salubrious magick spells on behalf of patients. To make another analogy, it's very different to talk to a psychologist who might not be able to help but see and respond to certain aspects of your personality, and then to talk to the same psychologist when they're actively responding using a therapeutic technique (or even hypnosis!). The first may be unavoidable, the second violates a person's autonomy and right to chose their treatment options.



I'm not interested in simple rules, and I think that there are probably multiple solutions to ensuring that patients understand and agree to having more specific and intensive energy (or magical) treatments made to them.



I'm sure this is true, and perhaps there is a measurable response that energy healers can feel that tells them how a person is responding to energy treatments as well. The issue here though is getting conscious permission from persons to use these treatments. To go back to the drug analogy, it's pretty clear when someone is responding well or poorly to an antidepressant...but whether or not it's working well for them doesn't bypass the issue of their choice to use drugs or not.

This post has been edited by monkman418: Sep 12 2010, 10:06 AM

Your very right an i completely agree with you, i've just gone off on a bit of on a tangent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In fact i think this conversation has highlighted a pretty good point
to actually get anything big done I'm going to need to get permission in some way,
of course there are many small and big things i can do without it, it's obviously a case by case thing.

In the spirit of that.. say i were to cast a spell tonight on a child with cancer that i saw on TV;
If i worded that spell like 'this child will get the best treatment and get better quickly an well'
Then is that a bad practice?
What of the fact lots of people will probably be manipulated unknowingly for those words to come true?
The intent worded is obviously not a bad one but to go an make that happen to the life of a girl you no nothing about could easily cause harm in the way that it is delivered.


Sometimes those subtle (an not so subtle) shifts in peoples fate take that person in a different direction, an they are totally un-informed about it
The coincidence effect is very much reliant on the quick system of simply aligning with similar intentions and or values
in order to get people to unconsciously make allowances for your intent, it is good to be keeping the majority of magic dealt with in the unconsciousness of strangers filled with the capasity for value based quick disision making...
..... actualy ive desided to give this up befcasue ive became far to stoned.

I think i will try an work out what im trying to say tomorow.

Draw. A lot of the time we have people praying for us or in forums we have people mentioning that a family member is sick and perhaps we send energy to that family member. But in doing so we generally don't have permission. My position is that I don't do that sort of thing unless I do have permission from the individual being affected. But most people aren't healthcare professionals, or at least aren't acting in their roles of healthcare professionals. It may be that these things are a bad practice for anyone, but if you are in healthcare then you are aware of the permissions issue. Personally I have avoided the issue because I'm not entirely sure that it is ethical. That is why in the other forums to which I belong I don't join into the whole energy sending scene unless I have permission from the recipient. But perhaps I am wrong in avoiding this.

I can normally read people's energy when I am in close proximity to them, but when it is distance healing my perceptions are muted. I can't really tell much except that after awhile from my end of things my energy flow seems to slow down. I figure that the receiver has had their fill of energy. Presumably if the receiver doesn't want this energy they would reject it and I would feel that rejection. But perhaps I am wrong that the receiver is able to reject it. Perhaps whether or not they want it the receiver receives it; after all a medical doctor can force an injection on an unwilling client either illegally or with someone's permission who has power of attorney. Whether the patient wishes it or not, the injection takes effect. Is energy work so different? Yes I'm playing devil's advocate here.

But when I treat clients in person I can feel the client's energy in some detail. I find that using a specific intent does have an effect in the behaviour of the energy I emit. If I have the intent that if the client truly does not wish me to put more focus on energy work then the energy will simply be deflected into the earth. I believe that if a client were truly unwilling I would be able to perceive them rejecting the energy emitted; likely they would see the rejection in their body language. But I am not entirely sure. I can think of possible scenarios in which an unwilling client accepts the energy. I've been doing therapy including energy work a lot of years, but there are many things I do not understand about the nature of qi. I know how qi reacts in most situations from experience, however only a fool thinks he knows everything.

I have communications with a power animal (I call him Harvey), but communications are seldom in words. Through him I have indirect communications with other 'spirit guides' occasionally. I've found Harvey dependable, but I have read channeled materials written by various mediums and channelers. I don't know that the material I've read is particularly dependable. I usually have relied on my own experience much more than what I've read in books. My guide has been dependable in other areas of work, prompting me, pointing out things, etc. I try to confirm things through other more mundane means whenever possible.

I've found clients to be fairly open to the idea of energy work. I did work for a few years in a physio clinic in which about 90% of the clients were moslem and while most were moderates, some were probably fundamentalists. But most of that work did not involve any overt energy work. It was all pretty much whiplash cases. Most of the moslems and christians I've chatted with about it did not see energy work as demonic, just mysterious and perhaps intriguing. It may not fit into their particular religious paradigm, but they seemed to make room. I haven't treated many fundamentalists to my knowledge, but possibly this is because I live in a fairly large city in Ontario and anyhow people don't always divulge their religious beliefs---I have heard some weird ass stuff from clients though over the years. Perhaps if I were living in the USA in some part of the bible belt this might be a bigger issue. Perhaps if it came up frequently I would have a policy all worked out by now.

Right, sober now..
I think the point i was trying to make was that most magic effects a vast amount of people it wasn't intended to effect, having the right intention (for the right reasons) is usually enough to ensure it's not harmful.
that's why asking permission from one person seems silly when in reality 10 people could have been effected.
i think their might be a distinction between types of magic in this respect.
Not all magic is like that an in the case of direct energy healing an many others it's a different game altogether,
the Codes Of Practice i have are good general codes to work by, so it's clear to me that most treatment falling outside 'subtle situation changes' should be treated as any other treatment in my profession,
i.e. full disclosure an giving choice to service users where appropriate.

Aaahh, but what about remote viewing? or other ESP? people have a right to their privacy as stated in the Data Protection Act of 1998 lol
On this one sure their is a lot of potential for debate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If I'm standing in the street, am i entitled to view all that i can?

what if all the other people in the street an the houses/shops didn't know i was their?

what if i was in another's house without permission but couldn't touch or change anything or be seen?

If i hear my neighbors having an argument through the walls of my house is it then OK to listen?

This post has been edited by Draw: Sep 13 2010, 04:25 AM

Bollocks to all that, I've just been fired.
They gave no reason, except not enough money an 2 much staff, which is pure bullshit.
I'm pretty good at listening when im being talked about if u know what i mean, so I've come across the reasons as follows;
I'm often a bit scruffy, i don't work quick enough an they suspect that i do drugs.

I hardly do any drugs now-days an I'm never intoxicated at work, i will admit I'm rather slow to learn but i wanted to make a career out of this one, i live on my own an i forget to shave an wash my trousers enough.

I really liked that job an this was totally out of the blue.
well almost, i became very emotional yesterday an i didn't know why, i sensed charged words being spoken but i thought it was someone else, i senced a big mistake had just come to pass but i didn't know what it was.
I feel like a stupid shit, i should have been more aware, i should have been kissing a different ass.

f%*! protection of privacy i should have been reading everyone's minds from the start.
That bitch is going to pay. I've still got a weeks work.

Sorry to hear that, but don't feel too bad. That kind of work they have a high turn-over and there is little security. Essentially they let people go for little or no reason.

I'm also sorry, and I agree. Good luck getting back on your feet, Draw!