Okay, I've recently decided to have a change a scenery and try Ceremonial Magick instead of Witchcraft. Well, I bought a great book titled Modern Magick. And it, like every other source I've read says I should do the LBRP every day. but why the lbrp? Why not some other banishing ritual. Just wondering

Hi!

Craig's book is great!

The short answer is that Craig's book is operating out of a Golden Dawn inspired tradition of magick, and the LBRP was used as the banishing ritual in the Golden Dawn. IOW, the ceremony matches the historical banishing used in one of the greatest movements in ceremonial magick.

The long answer is that the LBRP achieves different outcomes than other 'banishing' rituals. Some people (i.e. Crowley) have gone so far as to call the LBRP the philosopher's stone itself, though this may or may not be an inflated estimation of its value.

In general, I like to think of the LBRP as 3 parts:
1. The initial prayer and visualization.
2. Tracing of the banishing pentagrams with vibrations of the 4 tetragrammatic god names.
3. Summoning the 4 elemental archangels.
...and then the prayer again at the end.

I would challenge you to look at each of these parts seperatly and to determine through your reasearch and contemplation their intent and meaning. Then, reflect on what this means all together, and consider that 'banishing' might just be one of the outcomes of a very complex ritual.

Cheers,

Try doing the Middle Pillar within the influence of the LBRP, should make for some interesting results... if Kraig doesn't recommend that already... is it his new book you have or the old one? Do remember there being a mistake in his old one that should have been revised.

It's the newest edition, and he already says to do the middle pillar, but only after you've memorized the lbrp

I suggest to everyone the path of Chaos, (the word is a gross misrepresentation of the practice.) It is the duty of the Chaos magician to change belief to try and understand every path there is and utilize worth out of each. You would then be able to practice ritual as well as personal gain at the same time, Liber Null & Psychonaut (one book) and Liber Kaos by Peter J. Carroll and I would also suggest Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson.

Fortune Favors Fools,
Dancin' Coyote.

In my experience, that system seems to be focused on a particular kind of 'light', and the use of this light, instead of their own authority / power / energy. By doing the banishing, you are banishing as usual, and creating a small vaccuum - then it is easier to invoke that light (from the Middle Pillar and the Angel calls) into yourself.

So it is banishing, and it is drawing new forces into you at the same time. It will create a connection to the 4 angels you call, as well as the source of that 'light' which they are so concerned with.

Out of curiousity, what's your purpose in switching systems? What are you trying to achieve?

Well, it was a combination of things, mainly I wanted to expand my knowledge, but also it seems there are more . . . I guess the term would be "posers" in Wicca

That's all wicca is.

Another thing would be that I was looking for something more ritualized. It seems every time I would look for a ritual, all the rituals were poems that occasionally involved lighting a candle

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .Heh.

Not engaging enough it seems.



By your definition chaos.m is closer to shamanic, as in a personally defined practice than anything else... in that way we all end up as "chaos magicians" in the end.

Exactly! I mean, sure, I'm that a prayer over a candle could work, but I feel a bit more confident when invoking the archangels (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohyeah.gif)

Ha! Yeah, fair enough. That's going to happen in any system, really, but Wicca is particularly bad for it. If you're on the lookout, why not look into other styles of witchcraft, hoodoo, voodoo, etc.

There's not anything wrong with the LBRP, and in fact it's pretty good for learning some of the basics, but the ritual itself AFAIK, was sorta based on Eastern Writings / Crowley's other magickal experience, and a Jewish prayer. So you might want to look into where it's coming from, as you'll be inviting some of these influences into your sphere.

Good luck experimenting man.

Wicca is just more popular and high profile so the 'posers' are either more attracted to it, or just more noticeable. The LBRP is a good basic ritual that helps you work on technique and to some extent helps to build up your 'psychic muscle'. Its kinda like doing the bench press among magic workers.

I think i must point out at this point that I've never actually done the LBRP not once.

Never really felt the need for it, if their is a need then their are other ways.

I've read examples and got pretty high of my empathy for it, i know it, i see what it dose but i can't grasp the full consequences of performing it.
As in fact i'm averse to it as i am to microwaves, illogical i know.

I don't like the one's with angles in them; avoiding that entirely.
the one with the towers just seems like your visualizing an unknown sigil who's actual influence on the occult community is phenomenal but who's origin is unknown.

Sure it changes over time as people use it but it's hardly a leap of faith to suspect that the origin of it's creation had hidden agendas.
I'm just being suspicious.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/velho.gif)

But then when you summon dragons you won't be protected...

Like any other magic, the LBRP does not function just because you perform the actions. If each part of the ritual isn't clearly understood - or if some parts are and others aren't - or if you have no understanding or interest in kabbalistic symbolism, angles, the names, etc., then it's just rehearsing actions to no effect.

Calling the towers... well, the idea that there is some hidden agenda behind it, with a little study into the ritual, is kind of a laughable claim. 'Towers' being the abode of guardian spirits goes back to ancient pagan practices, and was adapted into Wicca from there, and/or possibly the inclusion of them in the Golden Dawn material based on Enochian work from the 16th century. Which one is the actual origin as far as Gardener is concerned is hard to say - but to say that it's origins are 'unknown' is a bit of a stretch towards the unnecessarily mysterious.

If it isn't within your paradigm to practice the LBRP or the Towers, then don't, there would be no point. There are other ways, but constructing your own banishing ritual does require that you apply the right principles in ways that are internally consistent with your paradigm. Working with the LRBP first and then over time developing an understanding of how the ritual works and creating your own banishing ritual, is a better idea.

peace

... of course the end result of any magickal training is to be able to simply light a candle, recite a poem and achive results, methinks its the goteia our good friend crab_s is looking for...



Hmmmm... would be a good test to give a ritual to a yogi up in the mountains of tibet and see what results he gets without being culturally imbued by hebraic culture or philosophy, at least not any more or less than what bits and peices the hebrews share with indian culture. Agree that it helps tremendously to know what it is you're doing but I don't think its a prequisite nor is it nessary for people to go into it in as much depth as some do, personal flaw to my practice is that I don't tend to grip theory too well, other than what I can intuit by way of meditation I'm a strong practicioner whimsial on what theory I can't directly use and apply to that but I still get results... occasionally .lol

Peace
M.

Well, for starters their are tons of western occultists putting loads of effort into getting 'practical results' and yet the media is bone dry with reports of anyone managing to do anything.
The same cannot be said for eastern traditions and 'shaman types'. Maybe i'm just looking in the wrong places, maybe its that they are just better at hiding..

Why banish stuff anyway? it seems CM's banish three times daily plus a few if they decide to do a ritual, whats the point? what was wrong with the energy in the first place?
Afraid of contaminants? never experienced them directly, i have experienced atmospheres that are not good for performing magic, they usually involve people.
As far as i can tell inappropriate background energy doesn't 'mingle' well with the magic in hand anyway, worid all the same? hold out your hands and blow it away.
left-over energy's from work can be uncomfortable when left to build-up admittedly, their are lots of good ways to avoid this, an a lot of them don't need repeating.

When calling the towers or angels or whatever you are effectivly asking strangers to determine exactly what energys may or may-not enter your space,
whats wrong with your own judgment that you have to do that? most of you can see energy's, feel presences etc so why continually repeat a ritual statement that you can't and need help?

Spirits, whether they are Angels Demons Dragons or whatever don't like being shoved, don't like being strapped to someone else paradigm with no regard for their own.
They could be crying out in disgust at the performance of the LRBP, but you won't hear them because you have just performed the LRBP and muted your mind to their 'negativity'.

If it's a Cleansing ritual then i feel clean enough as i am an i will tidy up as i go
If its a Protection ritual then i feel safe enough as i am an i don't think ritualized defensiveness is very welcoming
If its a Ritual for 'getting the right state of mind' then it's for beginners because the magic i want to put to use is the stuff you don't get much time to 'let-rip' if it's to be useful
If it's a Ritual that i must perform in order to be taken seriously as a practitioner then i think the practitioners are taking themselves far too seriously.

This post has been edited by Draw: Jan 20 2011, 03:52 PM

...the origins of the LBRP have hidden agendas?

...magicians fail to get results because the LBRP nullifies all of the energies in the area? Or otherwise because the ritual is detested by the angels and demons?

...and who is saying you need the LBRP to practice magick and be taken seriously?

Don't get too paranoid or speculative, mate.



...I'm not sure why magicians banish. It seems like many magicians find it to be a very important thing to do, though it would be hard for me to say without ever trying it, even once...

This post has been edited by monkman418: Jan 22 2011, 11:10 PM

IMO banishing is just like housecleaning. You need to clear your space and vacuum out the dead roach or two behind the bookcase every now and again. That's why I banish, anyway. I don't do it every day--hell, once or twice a month for me is fine. It helps keep energies in their proper places. I think the constant banishing advocated by a lot of CMers is frankly overkill. Washing up is great, but do you really want to scrub until your hands bleed? I don't think so. That having been said--banishing before performing magic like summoning spirits is *critical* as you want to make sure their energies are the only ones you're dealing with during the working. Banishing after is critical too because you want to make sure that any residue is well and truly dealt with and disposed of before you ground yourself.

What method works best for someone is simply a matter of trial, error, and personal experience. Sometimes I *need* the full LBRP, esp. if I'm doing something in the Western Tradition as then all the pieces fit neatly together. If I'm just trying to get rid of vibes left by an unpleasant person or object, lighting some sandalwood and/or frankincense and smudging the area works just fine. It depends on what I need atm.

And don't knock the candle magic--yeah, it's oversold, but it's simple and effective. You still have to know what you're doing and why for it to work well, however, and that's something the crap books from Borders won't tell you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Jan 23 2011, 12:23 AM

^ But would you wash your hands only once or twice a month?

I don't have an opinion on it either way - just a thought that occurred to me.


What sort of practical results do you know of that eastern traditions and "shaman types" have accomplished?

LOL, true. EWWWW if you did. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Still, though, my point was that some practitioners recommend banishing like OCD sufferers wash their hands. :/ Hygiene, whether physical or psychic, is a *good* thing. Taken to the extreme it does more harm than good.

Quite right, i was far too speculative and frankly i got out of bed the wrong side that day.

It still seems like a bit of overkill getting powerful spirits to clean up a bit of energy, just too much existentialism for my liking.


Creating electricity, Making fire, shape-changing stuff like that, of course now i think about it western occultists have done all that as-well, it just seemed like a lot less manage too.

Its perhaps more that western society has a push for material progress over spiritual interests and matters which at times threaten to conflict with that idea of material progress, hence its repression (not held as being 'scientifically valid' even though it can be proved), in other countries there are well established cultures of enlightenment, the asians are quite used to the idea of spiritual pursuit and will encourage it, same with others. Here in the west, as mentioned, if you're not seeking materialistic success you're looked at as being, "off". Can imagine a magician in hyde park, london, making fireballs .lol. People would see it as entertainment before being freaked out by it, in india they'd know that he's demonstrating his power over the element and likely wouldn't find it so impressive, that in comparison to actual gurus and yogis whos humility and feats they'd be well acquainted with.

In here, as it is on the internet you have people practicing for various reasons attempting various goals. Talking through different perspectives makes for a vast difference of opinion and misunderstandings at times. Some people practice for power, some for fun while others are more priestly in their approach. Each then on different paths or interpretations. Banishing isn't simply, 'banishing' but an exercise in self control and eventual dominance over the elements or archetypes as embodied within ones self, impregnating (or imprinting, which ever suits .lol.) the mind with a means of control that can then be utilized to cause and effect at will.

Banishing creates a sacred space in which all subsequent magick is easier to accomplish.