Same-Sex Legislation Passed!, Federal Government Recognizes! Options

Same-sex legislation passed

Last Updated Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:07:41 EDT
CBC News

The Liberals' controversial same-sex marriage legislation has passed final reading the House of Commons, sailing through with a vote of 158 for and 133 against.

Supported by most members of the Liberals, the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP, the legislation passed easily, making Canada only the third country in the world, after the Netherlands and Belgium, to officially recognize same-sex unions.
But the passage of Bill C-38, once again, came with a political price tag for the government. Joe Comuzzi, resigned from the cabinet so he could vote against the bill - an open rebuke of the government legislation.

Comuzzi was the minister responsible for Northern Ontario.

Although he was the only cabinet minister to break ranks with Prime Minister Paul Martin over the controversial plan to legalize the marriage of gays and lesbians, it highlighted the divisions within Canada and the within the Liberal party, pitting supporters of equality rights against those who are defending religious freedoms.

For Comuzzi, the decision to resign meant putting principles ahead of the privileges of cabinet. "In 2004, during the election, I promised faithfully to the people of Thunder Bay-Superior North, that I would defend the definition of marriage," he said, explaining his move.

The prime minister said he regretted the decision of a man he called an "old friend," but accepts it because the government must speak with one voice on same-sex marriage.

The "vote is about the Charter of Rights," said Martin. "We're a nation of minorities and in a nation of minorities you don't cherry-pick rights."

The government has moved over the last few the months to appease critics both within Liberal ranks and among Canadians at large. Amendments were introduced to ensure no religious group or charitable organization is forced to accept same-sex marriage. But in spite of those amendments some groups remain unconvinced.

Same-sex marriage remains one of the most difficult issues ever to confront Canadian politicians. In large part passage of the bill is the reason the parliamentary session was extended for the first time in 17 years.

But while Tuesday night's vote closes off the debate in the Commons, the Conservatives insist there is no closure for Canadians who believe marriage should continue to be defined as the union of a man and a woman, to the exclusion of all others.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says if his party forms the next government, the law will be revisited.

Harper made the promise one day after suggesting the adoption of the law lacked legitimacy because it relied on the support of the separatist Bloc Quebecois. Harper said he believes Bloc MPs are the legitimate representatives of Quebec voters. But he argues most Canadians aren't buying it as a final decision since most federalist MPs are opposed to same-sex marriage.

Harper says a Conservative government would hold a free vote for all MPs on the matter, rather than forcing cabinet ministers to vote with the government.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...esex050628.html

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It passed! It passed! We did it!

Congratulations! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
The USA, alas, are not so open minded.

Sadly the UK government is so busy reducing our civil liberties with pointless new laws, so there is little chance that we will see equal rights for gay couples any time soon here.

I don't pay attention to the news or anything related to it. Why did they not want to let gay and lesbian couples get married and all that?

This post has been edited by The Black Devil: Jul 20 2005, 09:24 AM

they were just being dumb. they were afraid that if they let that happen they would lose power.

they were just being dumb. they were afraid that if they let that happen they would lose power.

Im positive there was a lot more to it than that.
If you are in the mood to make sweaping statements
about things you apparently have little or no clue about
then would you mind doing it on a different forum?

It make the rest of us look dumb when you make posts like that.

Thank you.

ps. I support gay rights, I dont support stupid posters.

Let's try to play nicely! Some are more articulate than others....though I appreciate your sentiments! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Patience is oft times rewarded, but then, what the heck do I know?

Bible is against same-sex marriage. Any marriage through which you can not produce children is considered sinful.

Greetings!
Sin is a very interesting word. It has the ability of being applied to anything that is not 'in vogue' or which is contrary to accepted thought.
The Bible is comprised of the collection of stories relating to the Judeo-Christian sect(s). Jesus Christ never said anything about homosexuals marrying. As for marriage that does not or can not produce children as being sinful is a stance that is short sighted. Most ideas (in the Bible) of marriage were formulated by a tribal people that needed strength of number in order to survive. The world has changed considerably since then. I know of many heterosexual marriages that are childless, be it by design or by Gods will. To call that a sin is your choice but belies a prejudice and also a judgement that is not yours to make... I suppose that this issue will continue to be haggled over ad nauseum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/5.gif)
PS In my own limited way I view sin as that action that I do that I know is harmful to myself or others. Sin is of ones own tribulation...IMHO! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Some gay couples have children; either because one partner has already been married and taken them into the new situation, or in the case of two friends of mine, the 'female' half of the couple had grown children from her marriage and the 'male' half wanted to experience it, so she had a night with a gay man that they knew and produced a beautiful little boy.

We should learn to distinguish between universal eternal truths on one side and artificially projected 'truths' on the other side. It is a well-known fact that when a man marries a woman, they generally get children. And when the couple shower their affection on them, they evolve to become better souls.

Greetings Durki!
Yes, I can understand what parents (should) do but I'm failing to understand your premise on 'sin' and how it relates with your last statement. I know quite a few gay couples that have children who are loved by their parents and are well adjusted, happy people. Secularly the parents pay their taxes, act like responsible adults and love one another. Do you object with the term 'marriage' in relation to gay couples? Please help me understand your stance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Sin is indulging in act which makes you a worse soul. This means that instead of evolving, you involve. Gay 'marriage' is agains Laws of Nature and so you get karmically penalized. Marriage in the real sense of the word is only between a male and a female. If you take care of your children well, you generate positive karma for yourself.

Greetings!
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I couldn't disagree more. Particularily, what 'Law of Nature' has been violated?
Homosexuality exists in many different species on the planet. So much for nature.
Unless you yourself are being forced to participate in something that you don't wish to do, why does it bother you? Spirituality is an extremely personal thing. To denegrate and oppress people with your own set of spiritual beliefs is really the question here. According to some most of what we discuss here is evil or wrong. Predjudice and hate do not recognize barriers of faith. IMHO it would appear that the next evolutionary step would be to rise above these very negative thoughts/beliefs.
Thank you for allowing me my rant, be well and happy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
PS Edit: If the term 'gay marriage' offends you try 'gay union' or somesuch. Semantics can be very forgiving....
Oh yes, and just who is to judge about what constitutes a good or bad soul? Karma and Homosexuality are mutually exclusive. Of course, IMHO! I am not a Christian which, according to some, leaves me damned for all eternity. That and a buck fifty will get me a cup of coffee. I take it with cream AND sugar!

This post has been edited by bym: Sep 9 2005, 11:18 AM

Let me get this straight, durki. Because I'm a lesbian, who loves women and prefers to be with women, makes me spiritually un-evolved? I have no spiritual growth in all the years of walking my path, because I choose to not get involved with men? That's rightly pretentious of you to say. I am deeply offended by that statement, because everyday in this country of un-equal rights (US) I have to put up with ridiculous claims of how dirty I am, and sinful I am, I'm going to straight to hell! Now I have to go to a forum where I thought I could some blessed peace for a moment and hear this crap all over again? Please...do get over yourself already.

The Bible has this one book called The Song Of Solomon. I highly suggest you read it.

Sin is crap. It's a tactict to assume control over the masses. I'll indulge all I want too, in sex, chocolate, and pot. Does not mean my spirit will rot or stagnate. On the contrary, I got to learn! And grow! And be happy! Not sit there and fanatasize and feel guilt for being human! Go feelings of guilt and displeasure! Go feelings of bitterness for not being able to live! Go being crazy!

I just figured that I would post some info here on the tail end of this thread. It is somewhat related to the subject of the thread, but not completely on topic. About 2 months ago the laws of Ontario were changed to allow neo-pagan priests and priestesses to become ordained legally so that they can perform marriages, funerals or anuything else that priests do. Mostly its the marry and bury rights that are inportant. I suppose the tax stuff might be important to some. The law had been that a church had to be in existence for 25 years before their clergy could be licenced. It was pointed out to them that international laws say differently. Before this, a neo-pagan or wiccan clergy could marry someone only if they were ordinated and licenced under a recognized church. They may have been recognized as clergy, but not wiccan or neo-pagan clergy. Last I heard there were 5 wiccan clergy licenced to marry and bury. One only does lesbian unions. Another, a friend of mine, will do marriages/handfastings for straight or gay. Probably the rest are also flexible about performing for gay or straight handfastings.
British Columbia is the next on the list to pressure them to make amendments that would bring BC provincial law into line with world law. Expect it this summer. I haven't looked but probably by this time there should be an announcement and further info on witchs vox. They have to form some sort of commiuttee to look at the qualifications od candidates to be licenced. I've been monitoring the battle to see this through for about 2 years now. Maybe I'll get my licence as well.

This is always a fun topic (even more so now that our wonderful country has a conservative government!). I never know how to handle it. I mean, great if I wanna go marry a dude I like, I can. I suppose its a nice option, but as far as marriage goes, I don't think I'd ever do it. In fact, very few of my friends would (the gay ones and the straight ones). It would seem around here, marriage is falling out of favor. The people I know that are/want to get married are getting it done in a court by a judge or something. Personally I think it's nice. I never really could swallow that church is seperate from state in all matters, except marriage. There remains a strong connection to old religion in maggiage, it's one of the few rituals the 'west' still has...and frankly its stuffy and boring. But that's just my personal opinion.

Another personal opinion: marriage is a foolish thing. At least in the judeo-christian sense, but maybe thats becasue of the attitude and views people have toward "god". It's apparently all about love, but if you sin you're going to hell (but remember god loves you!). I was raised in a baptist....ummm....way. Not the most constructive environment for a young gay male. Thank goodness I had enough common sense to realize I wasn't some kind of abnormal freak who was condemned to hell fire. But still, I'm not going to say it didn't screw me up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As for being un-evolved....that's just plain stupid to say (IMHO). If you look around, especially here or in any circles this forum encompasses, you can find lots of homosexual people that are highly spiritually evolved, or are struggling to grow spiritually. Me, I'm a very spiritual person. I can't say the same for all my other gay friends, but you can't generalize things like that. It's silly. In fact, I'm surprised a lot of gay people are spiritual--most are terribly wounded by attitudes that say they're creatures of sin, evil and unworthy of love. Unnatural. Well, that's dumb. I live and breate as any one else does, am I not natural? I like ice cream, is that an unnatural feeling? Is my love for another man, then, perverted and disguating? (well, lots of people would say yes)

I don't see why it matters so much. I don't know why people can't just look around and see that it doesn't matter. When I was a few years younger (and NEW to the gay thing, if that can be said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)), I would be seething with anger. Now I'm just confused and puzzled. I don't know if thats a good change.

In the end, people are people. That's all there is. Why bother to try to make others less? What's the point? In the end it will always be the same. Struggle, fighting, suffering. There is always some group causing these things and there is always some group struggling against it.

I have no idea. It's just....well, what a world.



PAX

Well as a fellow yaoi fan boy I can tell you that I'm glad it passed.