Several spirits, one Caused Bleeding, Please identify and analyze Options

Many years ago I began to have intense visitations, within the first year of shamanic and white ceremonial practice. While sleeping, and sometimes while awake, I would see featureless golem-like(no hands, feet, face etc) humanoid shapes formed usually of a grey or black smoke that would walk through objects or be halfway throught the floor. They shocked and frightened me and I recall a skinny blackish one walking halfway through my bed that filled me with horror that it might pass through my body, while an unusually large white one that seemed to understand 'floor' and 'objects' bent slowly over my bed to inspect me. It almost seemed to know me, and my initial alarm at the white one faded to a sense that it might be protective or something as it merely stayed put and did nothing, but appeared repeatedly. Then I distinctly heard a man's voice chanting from the foot of my bed, but like an accidental phone wire cross, not intended for projection and occuring elsewhere. Then I was wrenched out-of-body to a collection of individuals who seemed human, seemed to have some sort of council or group concensus, and certainly practiced ceremonial magic with stunning skill and a casual disintrest in light and dark. They said they had been waiting for me to manifest again, the time was interminable, and they wanted a tangeble expression of my true magical energy, right then, so they could integrate, but not the 'paltry white' internal & mystical forms I had limited myself to. I freaked and became angry, that they were dark (hindsight-were they?)and made assumptions about using me. I exuded waves of blocking, concealing and severing force, violently.
For weeks, I saw nothing but normal people auras. Then, while half awake/astral, the really strong one came. I saw a slender man with curly hair that writhed into the flames rolling off him. The fire glowed with a black halo instead of light, and his face had a loki-like expression he walked out of the barren-between astral of manifestation where I was trapped. He was extremely intelligent and charming and feral and was offering me some kind of deal. I was momentarily curious and he linked in on that moment and was doing as he liked before I could answer. I then felt something black and octopus-like with too many eyes and tendrils IN MY WOMB with manifest links and realized he would use me to astral birth(or posess a real fetus, if possible) And freaked out, purging and pulling away desperately. It was a terrifingly strong and aware entity, and, well, it chose to leave because I was uncooperative, I couldn't remove it... I returned to the physical bleeding from my nose and sex(not preg, not period) in shock and in pain. Can anyone name him? Are they all linked events or none? I need some helpful info here.

Greetings Silenus!
I usually shie away from Womens Issues as being distinctly not qualified! The first thing that I council you to do is to find a Womens group, pronto! NO ONE has the right to use you or force you to do ANYTHING that you do not wish to do...!!!
I'm not an adherent to the white/black magic theme...but it doesn't sound good at all! Practise your shields and wards and, again, find a Womens group (hopefully with occult background) and gain some support! Bad stuff this...very bad! At night keep a couple of saucers of salted vinegar in your room to quell materializations and protect thyself! Hopefully some of the women here will help, if not, PM me and tell me where you are located and I will see if we can take it from there...OK? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/7.gif)

noted, but I was inquiring for a magical dissection/analysis of the entities - as in what, why, and who, not for the emotional support of a group.(Thanks, though) I really need some critical analysis, here. My intent is exploratory. Also, I no longer have white/black issues, nor do I still limit myself to mysticism- which requires that I identify, understand and formulate a proper method of handling such things alone should I encounter them pathworking or travelling. Also, I want to KNOW what they are and what they do. Anything seem recognizable to anyone? Are there any summoned or created things that resemble them?

Good luck on discovering the actual identities involved. I suggest a thorough divination to determine a number of salient points. I wasn't suggesting a womens group for just support/therapy. Any number of either Dianic Wiccan groups may be of use in having info on these 'people'. They could be a magical group working on the astral or an astral/demonic group...though it is very rare for demons to form cadre's and go after single people. Lawful Evil has this MO but I'm trying not to be too 'role playing' here. An organized occult order will have case files about such things as well as some local ghost hunters...? The 'golem-like' things are probably constructs. The guy was not. Demons rarely make constructs....none that I know of. Again, try some divination. If you are familiar with shamanism, what are your allies or power animals telling you? After reading your post a number of times I come to the conclusion, IMHO, that the answers lie with you. Good luck, other than what I've said here, I cannot offer any help. Your only impediments are the ones that you are making... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/swoon2.gif)

Yes, yes, I have spirit guides, banishing skills, understanding of protective magick in more than five cultures, a solid grasp on any sympathetic magic, an extensive research library and I have pursued my own research already, what I want are the impressions and knowledge of others who have experiences summoning,- e.g. using the greater and lesser Keys-, in order to cross reference and flesh out my own research- what would you classify them as? Which order of beings, which sephiroth, which rulers, what correspondances? and so on.

This post has been edited by silenus: Jul 21 2005, 10:33 PM

I figure it could be one of many things, or all of them. My first reaction would be your seeing your darker aspects manifest outside your psyche. It sounds crazy and far-fetched, but the mind to be able to create an entity of sorts is not unheard of.

It could also be demons, which is another far-fetched idea. Have you seen Constatine? That movie does a remarkable semblance to real demonology. In it they have what they call Soldier Demons, normally they are called the Legion. To get through to earth, they must inhabit a human body and "break through", as a human can be the medium between both planes.

Then you have incubus, which would be the most logical solution in relation to demonology. Incubus prey on women, particularly vulnerable women. Under normal circumstance, an Incubi would inhabit the body of a man familiar to you, and do his deeds through him, but in this case, it would seem he is obviously not strong enough to inhabit, and brought you into his realm to attack you.

Your nose and sex bleeding are signs of extreme stress (obviously), and adrenaline, the latter being more rare. The bleeding can be a psychological stress, but it is not uncommon for the spiritual stress on afflicted parts to leak into the physical. Pretty straight forward.

If it is your psyche, I HIGHLY suggest doing alot on internal work, through meditations and even counselling. There could be some deep-seeded problems that need to get rid of.

In the event of a demon, I'm going to break away from the boards mainstream magickal practices, and suggest a good old Catholic excorsism. Now a days, you don't need to be a Priest or Father to perform them, the loophole being you where baptised as an infant. You can acquire Holy Water from any Catholic church. I can give you a simple one, and if you can remain open to Catholic ways, it's pretty much a given that it will work. It may have to be performed more than once to completely eliminate it.



Exorcism

I wish you much luck, protection and peace. You'll be in my prayers.

If you have any questions at all, please do not hesitate to ask.

Namaste

It sounds like a bad 'Rosemarys Baby' story. I still think that you have the tools to ferret this out. It would do you little to listen to speculative feedback. If a group of magicians is doing this then they represent a diverse set of powers. Satanists get blamed for all sorts of things tho' it could be a group of 'devil' worshippers that have determined that you are to become the vessel for a 'magical' child. Usually a person with either a earth or water sign is used in these cases. The guy with the flamehair aspect could be just an astral 'affectation' or a personal 'avatar' image reflecting what he is into/represents. That the group was confident with their ritual tells you alot about the group. They are of practise and that they work well as a group. The golem like creatures are constructs, made to either track you or entrap you. They are of little significance as they exhibited little skills beyond lurking. Do you understand that anyone of us could pick apart your story looking for clues but each viewpoint would be different. What part of the world do you live? Geographic location can offer many leads. What time of day did these dreams/attacks take place? Again, most ritual group workings will follow certain rules when employing magic...phase of moon, times of day/month/year... An tentacled creature in your womb...was it an alien creature placed there, or did it grow there? I'm not comfortable about the idea of an incubus/succubus creature. They are of lower order and don't meddle with Man unless directed to do so. They almost never appear in a form of power as your guy did. I'm very familiar with the Greater and Lesser Keys...well, alittle short on Angels. This smacks of human intervention. You still maintain links of the event. Use them. I hope others will help your quest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/7.gif)

What's to say that it was caused by a group? Demons and entities CAN act on their own volition, it's not unheard of.

Incubi/Succubi aren't always these lowly creatures that cannot act on their own accord, or afford enough energy to manifest themselves in your "imagination". I've done enough research to understand that no matter what the entity, they will always find a way...it's clever and cunning. Demons are not something that are set in stone, their friggen demons.

In my honest opinion (and this is not to be offensive), support groups for women won't do a lick of good for this lady. Can you imagine walking into a group of women who have been raped, beatin, etc..in the physical plane, and then saying "Hi, my name is <whatever>, and I've been raped by a demon! It's nice to meet you!" That is, if this is the case. That's only an example. But they would look at her like she was meant to belong in the psych ward.

The idea of a group of people who are out to get her is also kinda ridiculous. Yes, there where a group of things in the other plane, but that does not strictly mean it was physical people. An incubi doesn't care who it goes after, it doesn't care if she gets pregnant or not, all it cares about is satisfying it's sexual desires. No mention or inkling of anything like Rosemarys' Baby. A group would look to me like it would be group of fellow friends to the one who wants to satisfy himself. Just because their evil, doesn't mean they don't have a circle of friends to be evil with.

And this is only my thoughts stemming from the theory of demonology in this case.

If it was psychological, a support group wouldn't be able to help with this either. They consol, and make a person feel not so lonely and singled out. A good therapist is what's in order. Again, that's not meant to be offensive, it's to be used as a point.

Namaste

I wasn't really sure if the events were related at all outside of my magical signature seeming to attract surprising intrest, and still do not know. Why my very white ( I mean internal and mystical as opposed to external and grey, or other) spiritual practices at that time brought this kind of attention confuses me. Also, there was nothing sexual, really, anybody can have a mental or spiritual parasite, man or woman. The natural creation and portal energy of the womb just fit the requirements of that moment, I suspect- also there was a strong bloodmagic aspect to it. I did, however, have the intuitive impression that if I had been less 'aware', a few months later I would have subconciosly been urged to make mistakes ending in conception, followed by a mysterious miscarrage which the entity would have rode as a blood and life force sacrifice into a stronger presence on this plane, all while I was quite oblivious. Also, the cthonic squid thing was a lesser order of entity than Fireman, who had dominion over many chaotic and alien spirits. It seemed to parallel to the style of heirarchy of spirits used in catholic and enochian systems, etc.
Squid was his to send, use or destroy, but was not him. He seemed the intelligent head of an alien, chaotic order of being from a black formless void with the attributes of fire without light, chaos, intelligence and creativity. The blackness was radiant and aware. Daath? Geborah? Enochian? Lovecraft was actually channeling? What?
Energy-wise, this is is Edmonton, Alberta, the least active geological place on the planet, with little population or history.

Edmonton...what a dirty, dirty city. Well, it feels dirty to me...I'll never go back there again.

You say these dudes come about when your more inclined to heavier practice...in that case, sounds to me like it's a test, regardless of who is known or not. Just my own observance, though.

What's to say that it was caused by a group? Demons and entities CAN act on their own volition, it's not unheard of.

Again, as I said, speculative...also:

Then I was wrenched out-of-body to a collection of individuals who seemed human, seemed to have some sort of council or group concensus, and certainly practiced ceremonial magic with stunning skill and a casual disintrest in light and dark.

I never said they couldn't act on their own volition. It is an exceedingly RARE occurance. This isn't Hollywood and there aren't demons lurking around every door. Demonic activity is usually uncovered by the use of the occult and by invitation. The spirits of the Goetia, for instance, do not hunt out human beings for fun and profit...rather it is the other way around!

Incubi/Succubi aren't always these lowly creatures that cannot act on their own accord, or afford enough energy to manifest themselves in your "imagination". I've done enough research to understand that no matter what the entity, they will always find a way...it's clever and cunning. Demons are not something that are set in stone, their friggen demons.

Yes...they are, in the grand scheme of things. I didn't say they were STUPID but they are of a lower stature. And, BTW, they are the same creature! Their lot is to spread evil through the reproductive act. A succubus will couple with a male, then, as an incubus, will couple with a female, hoping to impregnate her into conceiving a demonic halfling. Their actions, again, are usually invited or manipulated by mans actions. Yes, they can act out of the scheme of evil...which, once more, has its source in mankind. We obviously don't share similar philosophies.

In my honest opinion (and this is not to be offensive), support groups for women won't do a lick of good for this lady.

Again, as I stated earlier, I usually leave womens issues to women. I also stated that the womens group should be one equipped to deal on an occult level. Dianic Wiccan was one group that I suggested. So far your response to my post has been rather offensive (DollHouseKitty). Who are you mad at?

The idea of a group of people who are out to get her is also kinda ridiculous. Yes, there where a group of things in the other plane, but that does not strictly mean it was physical people. An incubi doesn't care who it goes after, it doesn't care if she gets pregnant or not, all it cares about is satisfying it's sexual desires.

See the original premise...this is merely speculative. And an incubi does not, per se, have sexual libido of its own. It can mimic human sexual acts in order to feed on the energies produced and it really does care if it impregnates a woman. These demons feed on energy and they try to spread evil through the reproductive cycle. Read what you will.

A good therapist is what's in order. Again, that's not meant to be offensive, it's to be used as a point.

I agree...there are support groups and there are support groups and there are therapists. I'm not a doctor. Just a friendly suggestion.
As you can see by Silenus's post, she has the keys to the problem and understands the psychological/spiritual knots in herself better than anyone. Some pointed introspection usually will lead you in the right direction.
Edmonton, Alberta evidently has its own seamy underside. Why is it that most of these cases find themselves in remoter areas? Well, it is a city and every city has its dark aspects! I apologize for using your thread to defend my position...and I wish you well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bah, I'm not mad at anyone, I'm simply speaking with the natural little twitter of vehemoncy I posess.

I NEVER had any "Hollywood" ideas around this, not once did it occure in my mind that a demon may be lurking around every corner ready to pounce on the next unsupsecting passerby. It's a rainy day in hell when I bring up the concept of demonology, I only use that suggestion when I strongly feel it should be brought up. The last time was about 6 years ago, a case which I care not to discuss at the present moment.

Anywaysss, the Goetic entities aren't so much demons, at least from my persepective when I took up that study. Just...entities of a not so white and feathery nature. Evil...naw.

The Incubus - the incubus was an angel who fell from grace because of his insatiable lust for women. As a demon, the incubus continued with his carnal desires, preying upon vulnerable women, raping them in their sleep or provoking in them sexual desires that only the incubus (sometimes known as the demon lover) can only satisfy.

The Succubus - female counterpart of the incubus. Alluring and persuasive, they used their considerable charms to seduce men and lead them to eternal damnation.

Odd...eh?

On the complete whole of demonology, yes, those two rank low on the totem, but their high enough to be greatly regarded.

This post has been edited by DollHouseKitty: Jul 22 2005, 01:03 AM

I have had many conversations with lower realm spirits. Looking up someones definitions in a book doesn't necessarily give you the words from the horses mouth... Alot of this written 'testimony' has its roots in a patriarchal society who find women inherently evil and that a mans penis is somehow taboo. What nonsense! (IMHO)
The Goetic demons/entities have suffered a dumbing down in recent years and people of occult mindsets have adopted a more cavalier approach to them. They are still demons...IMHO...and if you choose to blythely deal with them, you do so at your own peril! Evil doesn't always appear with dripping venom! *laugh* Athena, another of our Mods, has been dealing with the Goetic entities for some time and approaches them in a fashion that I find dangerous! I respect her but don't necessarily agree on her approach. To Each Their Own...(she is, BTW, quite an accomplished practitioner!)
The whole Good vs Evil thing has been debated for centuries. I try to tightrope walk down the middle. Even this doesn't satisfy everyone...

This post has been edited by bym: Jul 22 2005, 07:14 AM

You believe their evil, I don't. Agree to disagree. I'm not going to repeat myself anymore.

That's excellent that's she's a good practioner. Doesn't mean it makes me any less or naive because I chose to learn about it instead of devote my energy to it's magick, you'd be surprised what a person knows just by studying more than one path.

In the end, everything comes down to one thing, the same damn being, with a thousand faces. I think that's something a little too, oh...what's the word, distressing, for all those old dogs you can't teach new tricks too.

I am grateful that because of the internet there are people that I can actually discuss these subjects with. Although you feel I have my own clues, which is true as I am not a total mundane, that doesn't mean repore with others isn't a blessed relief to me, or that it might not help me clarify points I am researching. I appreciate the fresh perspective, it does help. That is why I am posting, because my 'inner clues' point it out. I am not, however, aware of any dianic witches who have the training or a history of ceremonial evocations, (that training focuses on the intuitive styles) a practice of which and a study of the hierarchies of spirit I believe is required to analyze this in the manner I am presently attempting. I have already pursued the intuitive end. This is the reason I posted *here* and not on the 'wiccan web', or whatnot. The events occured on Oct 13. I have enjoyed all of your observances.

Greetings Silenus!
I'm sorry that I wasn't able to be of help. You certainly sound like you have your collective sh*t together. I'm very intrigued still and will follow my own advice and do a reading. I will PM you the results, with or without commentary, as you'd prefer. I hope that others will look in and contribute to the mix....DollHouseKitty included! Until later... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)

I would definitely side with the idea that this was a group working of some nature. I don't know you, or anything about you so it's hard for me to say whether they were trying to infleuence you in a positive way or negative way. There's really nothing evil about black magic, it's evil magic that's evil (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif) It seemed very violent though, and in my experience light workers don't often utilize golemn like henchmen. However, light workers can often be far more sadistic and mean than any of the so called evil doers so it's a very difficult for me to venture a guess. It could all just be a premonition to join some sort of group or perhaps to stay a from group workings as well. A very intense premonition it would be though.

I am very interested in the results of the reading, and would love to see the interpretation included. Also, the idea of the first part being a premonition never even occurred to me. I have had TERRIBLE experiences with magical groups, mostly watching others attack each other in sad 'schoolyard games' and just not respecting anyone or feeling safe and quietly backing away and out, but twice I was physically attacked by men(after the visitation), and my partener was severely abused and assulted by a woman (before) who used the 'you must obey me and not question to learn magic' technique, when he was very young. He ended up in a mental hospital for 'deprogramming' and suicidal behavior, and had a panic/aversion reaction to magic communities for years. The men were both socially retarted thelemites, one of whom slipped me some kind of homemade roofie which put me into convulsions and caused permenant memory damage, the other was excited to find a woman 'able' to do ceremonial, invited me to join in a norse drinking ritual, 'thoughtfully' helped me home, and called me 'feisty' when I was uselessly drunk in kicking at him. That was when I hunted out Dianic ladies and abandoned ceremonial for witchcraft, needing precisely the kind of assistance that was initially suggested for the visitation on this forum. I assure you the experience was quite different with the strange haunting than with men, although it did happen prior to the #!&*@%$ thelemites. I have been with left with a hatred of crowley followers, a distrust of magical orders, and a profund curiosity of what the hell the spirits that haunt me are. I also no longer intend to stick to White non-external seeking and enlightenment, seeing how little security that has brought me. I suppose it has marked my aura as gentle, fern eating prey to everything and everyone ugly to attack. Therefore I am going for an aggressive, 'will to cause change' Grey form instead. It would be delightful to practice with mages instead of witches if I could ever trust any, but so far I have been developing new and detailed methods of evocation all alone, as I FULLY intend to hunt my spirits down and interrogate them. Although my new methods are amazingly effective, I wanted some input for common sense and security-as I intend to summon him. What are your suggestions?

This post has been edited by silenus: Jul 27 2005, 03:12 PM

Do you think that the blood was caused by him - did you get the feeling of being attacked? Also have you gone through a crisis yet as you mentioned being involved in shamanism - I know everybody has a different way of the spirits coming to them, mainly cos of culture and preconceptions but maybe this is mr Death and you need to say hello and accept your calling. Your description does not give the impression of evil to me, but of something that lives on the boundries between good and evil or beyond it. Especially the wording you use relating to the man - 'feral', 'intelligent' 'charming' and 'loki - like' - and the general tone that i get from your post does not suggest fear so much as interest. 'feral' is especially significant for me - it was watchig all of the 'feral' shaivite naga babas in india that took me away from the fluff'n'cheese plastic new age stuff (thank gods). I see the feral and loki like being the missing ingredients for a lot of groups, especially in the theosophy and ceremonial circles. It was definately the missing ingredient for my induvidual practice.

boom shiva!

This post has been edited by Shivas Best Mate: Jun 16 2006, 05:40 AM

very interesting read, sadly i do not know very much about evocation.

I hope you can find some information on these entities, and please do share it if you would want to.

as for good or evil, i do not believe there is a difference. Just a matter of perspective, a point of view.
good or evil entities, i don't buy it. Perhaps passive and agressive entities would be better phrases.
This was bad for you, and good for them, perhaps.
If someone directed these entities, then the entities where doing good for the directors and bad for you.
I would also view this event as bad, do not misunderstand.
But universally speaking, who knows what it really was.
But thats my way of viewing things, this has been discussed before, and many disagree with me.

Do your best, strengthen your will, carve your own path.
I wish you the best on your grey adventures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)