Ghosts?, Whats the connection? Options

All right so we've seen and heard of Ghost hunters and probably a few other shows too. Obviously ghosts are nothing new. They have been ingrained into the human psyche in one form or another for as long as man has existed. Over the past 150 years or so paranormal researches have attempted to use science and technology to figure out what the ghost phenomenon really is. Only in the past few decades have things like EVPs (electronic voice phenomenon), temperature gages and IR camers been availible to researcheres. Personally I have to admit if some of the EVPs off of ghost hunters are not some how just hoaxes that presents some really strong evidence that some kind of activity is occuring.

So what do you fellow occultists, magicians, and beginners think ghosts really are or a part of?

This post has been edited by Acid09: Feb 7 2007, 05:03 PM

Ghosts are misunderstood and taken vicarious for the deceased soul of the being; few elucidate further research to realize that ghosts are actually non-conscious astral 'dross', only but remnants of what used to be the being.

Ghosts are not conscious, they are not alive, they are not to be feared, they are left over energy; usually subsequent to a murder or major death scene; where major emotional energy is left to roam. Sooner or later, the ghost too, dies, and re-assembles with the spirit whence it elicited forth.

This post has been edited by NecroReaper: Feb 7 2007, 06:12 AM

Agreed Necroreaper, Ghosts are definitely left over spirit energy of a deceased spirit. It is the memory leftover residue to be more accurate. I have never seen a ghost but my mother and sisters seem to have and I also noticed they were in a mourning type of state. Seems to me that their memories of the deceased manifest in their perceptive minds and walah! A ghost is seen. The ghost is nothing more than a manifested memory, in my opinion.

This post has been edited by Eabatu: Feb 7 2007, 12:21 AM

In my own experiences with 'ghosts' I've found that they have varying degrees of consciousness. The conclusions I was lead to was that a ghost's consciousness is static, it doesn't evolve, although it may break down over time. And, it doesn't change, it's on a loop, of sorts. Only two ghosts I've encountered were able to communicate, and even then they had only a limited communcation, mostly regarding the circumstances of their death.

So, i'm inclined to agree that they are the residue of consciousness. In my opinion, this occurs because the astral 'stuff' whatever you want to call it, is conscious in and of itself, and can be 'locked' into a particular pattern by sufficient emotional energy of one form or another - trauma, etc. Sound familiar? Servitors function on the same principal, gathering and focusing astral materiale, which is conscious, into a particular pattern through intent and, depending on the paradigm, emotional energy.

I've only encountered a handful, however, but none of them posessed the sense of spark and vitality that a conscious entity, physical or otherwise, posesses. However, I have wondered if such a shade of a being might not be posessed by another entity, by a magician's servitor, or even infused with vitality. Haven't gotten the chance to test the theory, though, not many ghosts where I am now. In the south they're all over the place.

There are lots of stories of ghosts in NYC, but given what I have come to understand about the nature of those beings, they have a sort of half life and tend to be worn down by strong currents of energy, and the currents here are constant and vital, and tinged with materialism and industriousness - not energies conducive to maintaining ghostly entities. In the south people have long memories, and constantly keep the past alive, and so there are ghosts there that are hundreds of years old. Of course, that's pure speculation, and I haven't been to enough sites outside these two places to gather more data on that.

edit: Ah, I checked the box 'disembodied spirits of the dead' and another one related to that condition, because there are, in my opinion, cases in which a recently deceased individual is unwilling to move on, or is tied here for some reason. However, those ghosts tend to move on eventually, and are normally encountered only by people very close to them in life - though I'm not sure I would classify those cases as the same phenomenon as the average ghost.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Feb 6 2007, 11:33 PM

I also tend to lean on the notion that ghosts are disembodied consciousnesses, or spirits as I think of them. I think ghosts are the residual energy of a person after the point of death that for whatever reason has remained attatched to this world. I don't think the attatchments have to be negative and only exclusive to murder victims and what not. I think really anybody can remain Earth bound for any reason as long as the attatchment is strong enough - like say a broken heart or desire to protect family or some unsettled business or even life itself.

As to the degree of a Ghost's consciousness I believe it has to do with the level of attatchment and how lucid they were at the point of death. On one extreme, getting shot in the head, imo, would mean a person would not retain a high degree of consciousness. They might not have even known what hit them. On the other hand say a Tibetan Buddhist who has prepared for death his entire life would retain a very high degree of consciousness. Perhaps so much so that they retain their "wholeness" and are no different than any living person other than being dead. In my opinion its not that ghosts can't act on cognitive functions its just death has caused them to remain "asleep". Its as if they are having repetitive dreams. If for some reason a ghost snaps out of this state of mind I think any ghost would seem quite coherant, within their own reality that is. We may seem like ghosts to them.

In addition I believe that ghosts are made up of some kind of energy. Certain forms of it can keep the body of a ghost charged, like say fear or psychic energy in general. And that given enough time in solitude a ghost will decay and eventually fade away entirely. It is possible, imo, that a ghost who has acheived a high degree of self control can learn to increase the amount of energy that makes up their body and this increase their life span in a ghostly form. But most, if left to their own, environments, will just decay away. Another factor is how the energy of a ghost is actually contained. I think what contains the energy of a ghost are the places it is most familar with. Thus a ghost's world is limmited to only those places unless it can somehow "possess" a body or create psychic links to other places.

Its interesting to consider the metaphysics that would have to be involved in order for any of this to work. In order to really know what a ghost senses or experiences we'd have to be one ourselves, or figure out a reliable means to communicate with them. I know some believe that as an area where a ghost haunts changes it disturbs its energy and causes it to act out. If a ghost can have any sort of imagination I just think that whatever they see and feel has to be amazing and probably just as real to them as reality is to us. And if ghosts can imagine, let alone dream, then perhaps their worlds are not limmited to only those places they haunt.

As to my own experiences:
I've had three that I truely believe something "spooky" happened.

First, when I was about 6 I was taking a nap, so this was noonish, and suddenly woke up. I was then inexplicably drawn to look out the front window. Upon doing so I saw an old man in the middle of the street dressed in blue robes, possibly scrubs. Recalling what I saw he had long white hair and a beard too. He was also wearing a blue hat like a wizard's hat or maybe even a surgeon's cap. He also had a long staff made from a twisting piece of wood. As he walked I noticed he seemed to float and he was humming too. The humming seemed to echo and was enchanting. I remember feeling totally mystified by this presance. As I watched he just started to lift off the ground and he eventually burst into a white ball of light and was gone. This experience stuck with me my whole life but it was so surreal and happened at such an impressionable age I can't say for certain that I wasn't simply dreaming.

Then when I was 7-8 I had a rather unpleasant experience. Now I was still at that age when I was afraid of the monster under my bed or closet and so I had a habbit of peering under my head board to see if there was anything there. Well one time there was. My room was totally dark, no night light or light from the hall way. The only light source was the bit that shown through the curtains from the street lights. I was laying on my bed, on my stomach and did what I usually did and looked over the front to make sure there wasn't anything there. Usually all I saw was pitch black. This time I saw two beady red eyes looking back at me. Sends chills down my spine just recalling this. The eyes didn't move and I had only looked about 2 seconds before diving under my covers. I didn't scream or even move because I thought if I stayed still what ever it was would move or prove that it was indeed real. If it had I'm sure I would have screamed. But either it was really patient or something because I ended falling asleep, beneath my covers. When I woke up my aunt was taking a shower and my uncle had already left for work. I was in the hallway and suddenly the light began to rapidly turn on and off. That freaked me out. But when my aunt came to the rescue the light bulb had burned out and so I wrote this off as just the light burning out. Still freaky though.

Finally my last experience was when I was 19 and living with my mom. I slept in the basement at the time and once I was just about ready to go to sleep on a couch in a day room. This couch faced the opening to the hallway that lead to the rest of the basement and the stairs. My brother came down to turn off a light that was on in the luandry room, this is the first time he ever did this. Its kind of a freaky basement and I always left it on just so I wouldn't break my neck if I had to get up. So my brother walks back up stairs and I can hear him shuffling about and his bedroom door closes. Now the only light is comming from the upstairs from a meager night light so what I saw might have been nothing more than a trick of my eyes - so I thought at first. Not more than five minutes after my brother had left I saw a figure, like a shadow walk from opposite of the stairs, from my sister's room (she was gone) and into the day room. I'm thinking to myself this has to be my brother messing with my head. Also I am totally sober - no kind of intoxicant at all. I'm just stupified at this point. This shadow moves right up next to me and as though it were looking right at me stood there for at least half a minute. I would have thought it was nothing but this thing didn't just look like a figure it also breathed. And if its breathe was any indication of its mood it wasn't happy. Again I think its my brother so I say "what are you doing" when I don't get a reply I'm really spooked and so I begin to get up. As I am doing so this shadow just moves away from me to the wall and just fades away. It was like watching it shrink into the wall. I got up and turned on the light and nothing was there. So I'm pretty moved by this situation and migrate to the upstairs couch for that night. Needless to say I didn't sleep in the basement alone ever again. Later my mother told me she believes some kind of entity is stalking her as this same kind of appirition seems to appear in every place she lives.

And thats all I got. I have a few other stories but generally speaking I was either lucid dreaming or intoxicated.

I think that ghost are just left over energy and that they seem to have a concious that only implies to the kind of energy that they are formed out of... like if someone was murdered and left lots of hateful and dark energy the 'ghost' would be rendered by that energy hence having its characteristics,like it may try to through objects around or spook people etc.

well those are my thoughts....

~Myroku

Well, I have little idea but theories as I don't have yet encounter a "ghost" manifesting in right front of me, but I have quite reliable stories I've been hearing since a child from friends and families who actually encountered them.

For example, just a week ago my girlfriend encountered a "kuntilanak" standing just 3 meters away staring at her at 2-3am outside the window when she went to the bathroom. A kuntilanak is a local folklore female demon/ghost with a long jetblack hair wearing all white long gown (think of sadako) Her face was very pale with a blazing red eye. The other story that she shared with me was one where a kuntilanak joined her in an outdoor group photo (too bad I don't have copy of the pic) and then the kuntilanak visit each member on that group pic on the next day for a few days, a few got visits in their dreams, one got the kuntilanak manifesting behind him sitting in the backseat when he was driving (and he crashed to the sidewalk and run like hell (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol_2.gif)) and the other manifested on the roof top above her bedroom just stuck there like a lizard staring down) as she tried to sleep (she frozed in bed covered in blanket till morning, peeing herself) and there's "pocong", jumping mummies that I've seen caught on camera. Explain that. None of western "ghosts" that I know of as "scary" as the asian's. But that's relative, and I'm still looking forward to encounter them for myself to find out.

Much of the western folklore has been whipped out by the catholic church. However I can say that I would not want to meet a true undead vampire or werewolf. Also I've read a little about the banishee, wraith, elementals and fair folf from Gaelic lore. Banshees were ghosts who would appear and wale in front of a person who was about to die. Wraiths were supposedly the vengeful ghosts of those who were killed in a dishonorable way. Elementals are manifestations of supernatural creatures who thrive on natural energies and sometimes appear where something terrible has happened. These guys can cause poltergiest activities, as can fairies, or fair folk is what I was told is the respectful way to call them. These guys are nothing you want to mess with. They live in groves and by oak trees and contrary to pop culture are anything but cute little sprites that fly about. In Ireland these creatures are about 3 feet tall and have magickal powers to curse traspassors and possibly even kill them if they are angered enough. Quick to insult and often vengeful these creatures can be used for magickal gain such as the healing of the sick, but are best left alone if possible. Some today still leave gifts of mistloe and other such charms out their doors as a sign of respect for these creatures.

The one eastern entity that stands out to me is the hungry ghosts. Seems something that many morning parents or drug addicts may become when it is their time.

My theory, which is probably full of holes. I don't think it is as clear cut as this either but it seems to make sense up to a point.

At the time of death:

Neschamah: Crosses over. A return to the source which does not involve the retention of conscious identity even if it does involve the retention of individuality.
Nephesch: Returns to the general pool from which that particular type of nephesch was drawn at the point of incarnation.
Guph: The meat waggon obviously becomes a shell.

but...

Ruach: Continues to exist as an increasingly scrambled and incoherent matrix of information, whereby it causes and can be perceived as the phenomena known as ghosts.

The exception to this is past the grade of 7=4, at which point the Ruach and Neschamah remain conjoined.

Ok, so basically I'm new on tge forum but only because I was asking my self too much questions about thaumaturgic works, basically I'm from a Theurgical background. So actually I'm working on kabalistic cosmogonia and astral travels in those realms but a kind of ghost of a well known singer that commited suicide approached me. We communicate trought automatic writing and for the moment he doesn't take control over me because of protections that I make. Now I've got a thought about it: when you start entering outside realms you must go trought the astral plan of the earth where reminicences of the past living beings and trapped spirits are. I should think that this is a sign that I'm strarting to succeed in out of body experiences.
But because of my background spiritual masters wrote to never make any bargains with ghosts so... I think I'll take the risck, after all it's just a blessing he asked me for

Hmmm, I’m going to take issue with the oriental or eastern spirits being more frightening then their western counterparts.

While Acid09 did a wonderful job of pointing out the fun spirits of celtic traditions, I will point out two spirits that I encountered (at different times) one of very Argentine origin, possibly local to the location I was at. The other much more catholic is nature, but I am now questioning it’s demonic nature. As the end result of it’s encounter with me and a friend was we stopped much of the darker spectrum of magick we where trying to do, and we have lead relatively decent lives since then. Though I admit I am now entering what I would have termed darker end magick again…it has a very different nature then it had prior.

First encounter is classic out of a movie type scenario.

I am 13, about 6 months after to my first brush with Magick, prior to any use of drugs and at least a week or two since I had touched alcohol, I did not smoke yet. I had moved there from the US just 6 months before, my Spanish at the time is conversational, but not really up to par in having a good conversation without pausing a lot and needing to describe things with words or my hands.

I am riding a white horse home in stormy weather and it is about twilight. Sun has been down a while, I am riding home from my girlfriend’s home, she was alone, we enjoyed ourselves.

The terrain is fairly arid but not desert by any means. It is a high altitude location so lightning is hitting all over the place. The horse jumps about 6 feet to the side every time there is a strike near us, say within 500 feet, so the light and the sound is almost together.

I ride by a bend that I never liked, slippery, colder then you think it should be even with the river, creepy feeling all the time.

As I pass the bend, lighting strikes in front of us, and the horse rears, I lean forward and back behind me (at the ground) and I notice two sets of white shoes, I do a double take.

The two shoes are connected to an entire female body, what is white, not translucent she is there, but all one color. She had wild hair (not possible in the down pour of rain) and was holding a tea kettle in one hand and a Mate in the other. (look up mate in Wikipedia, it shows the whole thing) everything is white. This caused the details of her to blend, but her finger nails, teeth and eyes had like grey streaks in them. Even sitting on a white horse, she was much whiter then anything.

She is sitting side saddle on the back end of the horse, smiling with long, kind of pointy teeth, and sitting upright while the horse was rearing, so defying gravity.

I hear her cackle as the horse gets back on all fours, and bucks its rear legs. (I am now looking ahead of me as I am in a bad position, and risk falling off the horse). My ears are ringing from the thunder, but I hear her cackling right behind my right ear.

I regain my posture (sitting upright) as the horse is already galloping. I look behind me she is still there. I contemplate jumping off the horse (only about 2 miles home). Instead I swing behind me, and she hisses, like a loud big cat (mountain lion without the growl sound mountain lions make when they his).

I look back and the kettle and mate are gone, her mouth is way open, and her arms look like she is reaching into me. Lighting his behind me (direction I am facing) horse jumps forward, I fall oddly back into the saddle since I was turned around and the ghost is gone.

Two days later, first time I am in town near local adults (not teachers). I overhear to of the ranch hands for a neighbor where describing her in detail, but with red eyes, and saying things like if she rides with you, you are dead before the next moon cycle. And then they where comparing notes as to who had seen it and died arguing over the time it took.

Now I am paranoid, and wondering if out Forman talked to anyone since I told him why I was walking down the horse in the rain. Now our Forman was not a local and did not go to town much except to get into drunken brawls, so when he said no, I took his word and then got really paranoid.

Nothing happened beyond that.

Well I took too long in that one, so I’ll save my other one for later.