White Pride, A great E-mail I got. Options

“WHITE" Pride”

This is great. I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is.....

Proud to be White

Michael Richards makes his point..............
Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.



This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...



Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... and that's OK.



But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink .. You call me a racist.



You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you... so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?



You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.



You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.



You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.



You have the NAACP. You have BET... If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.



If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.



If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.



We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??



A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.



If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists.



There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US . Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.



In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.



You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.



You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.



I am proud... But you call me a racist.



Why is it that only whites can be racists??



There is nothing improper about this e-mail.. Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won't stand up for ourselves!


BE PROUD TO BE WHITE!



It's not a crime YET... but getting very close!




It is estimated that ONLY 5% of those reaching this point in this e-mail, will pass it on.





I am proud to certainly pass it on!



From the desk of Eric Franke

Greetings!
I find that quite alot of what you say is true. It has been my experience in life to notice that Blacks are more predudiced in my town than whites. The trouble with this stance of 'white power'/'black power'/etc. is that we are still focusing on color and race. Some people do some things better than others...period. Must we always take the extreme opposite view(s) when dealing with race issues? My best friend and I call each other 'niggers' all the time ...and we're white! We find this whole issue laughable. Unfortunately alot of people can't rise above viewing this beyond a state of violence/intolerance. Profiling sucks!

I, for one, could give a flying rats ass about the color of someones skin or their race. You want strange just tool around the lower astral sometime...yuck!

Again, on the level in which you presented that argument, I have to agree with most of it (not all) but it should be noted that we need to elevate our views beyond racial profiling which is just mean spirited and harmful! I didn't like the poll question. it could have been worded differently. I've met Black,Indian, Native American, White (Euro), White (American), etc. racists. Whites do not have the market cornered! Alot of the Black racism that we see is/are leftovers from when they were considered property and not humans. It's an over-reaction! But...I also think that 'White Supremacists' are nasty, vicious people! Oh, well...somuch for the ramblings of an old man...where's my drool bucket?

What does it mean to be "white" anyway? Most of us whites are basically mixed European with no real one cutlural heritage. You could make the same arguement for blacks in that they too are not all from one or several areas of Africa. My point is what's the big deal with celebrating the color of your skin? I mean sure be proud of who you are. But skin color alone doesn't make you special. I'm more proud of my family heritage than I am my skin color.

I think there is a big difference between white pride and white power. People with white pride really don't care about their skin color they are proud of the heritage they have. Whites celebrate St. Patricks day. We have international food festivals, we even have our own version of Oktoberfest in some parts. The point is people are freely allowed to celebrate their heritage. And those foudnations that support blacks, muslims, latinos and all else, they are supporting their people. They are trying to make a difference in their communities - not keep the white man down. People who support the doctrine of white power believe in white domination and supremecy. And they are even racist against other whites!

If there is a perception that "white pride" equals racism its because of white people themselves. Organizations like the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, and Neo-Nazis perpetuate that stereotype - even against other whites! Then we are still comming out of the age of Jim Crow laws (albiet those were awhile ago), and white supression of minority rights. A lot of people are still old enough to remeber the LA riots, and everything between Vietnam to the assassination of MLK and beyond. My family came from the South. Several family members were in the Confederate army. And believe me when I say history is written by the victorious. When ever people see a Confederate flag they automatically jump to Racism. They don't understand that its a sign of heritage, not hate.

the small gray visitor walked along the sidewalk - people were staring, their eyes and mouths round with excitment, and they pointed their fingers at him - they showed their teeth to him too when they smiled, and he winced, remembering a long-healed bite from an abductee - his name was 14117, and he had escaped from his ship just long enough so that he could taste of the fresh air, but he had to head back soon - he had taken a great chance, but it was worth it - they never left their occluded timestream that was just out of the main timestream, at least not very often, and this was one of those very special times, and he had been determined to yake advantage of it - these people thought he was one of them in a suit, and that was fine by him as long as they didn't get wise, but he was just himself, and only out for a stroll - then it happened, he stumbled! - he instantly caught himself with his mind, but he let out a mental squeak, not much, but enough to identify him as not some short cute human guy in an advertising suit, but a non-human! - the crowd froze, then went totally san andreas! - they ran like bulls in every direction, even banging into each other - their disturbance was ant-like, speading farther than the initial point and running on sheer chemical panic - he noticed this in a split second, and tried to freeze as many as he could using their fear paralysis response, the ones within reaching distance of him anyway, but their fear had turned to rage at his difference - the xenophobic crowd came at him, the strange and different one, with murder in their hearts, their mammalian brains churning at this thorn in their flesh from beyond their physical-only world - this is why these were never meant for the stars, and could not be accepted graciously - they even killed their own kind, what kind of an advanced society was that! - it was in their genes some said, and they had collected and follwed them, and their footstuffs, through time to make sure, but the fault lay with their origins, not their development - there were some, a few, who's development had diverged from the masses, who's spirituality was more than most of these, but their voices of reason were drowned in the sea of the mob - if hearts were moved by his plight, there were none near him, and he would now be torn apart by these monsters! - they rushed him, en masse, but just then a dull gray surface scraped the edge of a brownstone building, and he was lifted up into his ship - he didn't know whether it would have been better to have to face the mob below, their still-angry roundness now turned upwards looking at the ship and the prey that had somehow gotten away, or the stern reprimand that he would now face from the ship's captain for being so foolish as to venture unprotected beyond the ship, alone, in a foreign land - he shuddered, thinking he would have probably preferred the mob

I think the reason for this is, white are the majority, in power, and have “positive” stereotypes.

Anyone who says “cracker” or “nigger” to hurt is a racist. If half of black people in America are racist (not including Obama) it wouldn’t make a major impact on a white person’s life because we aren’t in positions of power and don’t control the media brainwashing.

When I see the confederate fly I naturally consider the person parading it to be racist until told other wise, but that is to be safe.

I personally, from my experiences with white men (I tend to be drawn to them sexually, friendship and romantically) are, that many tend to be pretty darn racist/anti-diversity(Meaning they don’t hate minorities, just want nothing to do with them).

Miss Black America pageant is a good thing, since America has a narrow view of beauty and many women of color grow up feeling ugly/inadequate, and sadly men of color can influence this.

Please don’t judge minorities. I think we should work on diversifying, and not separation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) But until then nothing is going to change. . .

This post has been edited by Aphrodite: Apr 2 2009, 07:56 PM

psychologically i'm green like emerald (corundum as opposed to vanadium), and i spout individuality and individualism, as we are better when sublime than when sublimated, so what does the separatist philosophy gain the practitioner? - psi, like blood, has no color when liberated from the body that holds it, regardless of the color of the source - cut any man and he bleeds soul

There is nothing improper about this e-mail.. Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won't stand up for ourselves!

I tend to associate "White Pride" and "White Power" movements as a subsection of the much larger "White Trash" subculture. If I don't forward this to everyone I know, I hope the author will forgive me for not wishing to look like a redneck.

Racial promotion groups, of all races, tend to be scams. Event organizers, publishers of magazines, merchandising, etc.. It's a business that derives its income from vanity and a desire to belittle others. Take any piece of "racial pride" literature and trace it backwards, and you'll find someone collecting donations for vague purposes, which makes me doubt the sincerity of any of these movements.

I I don't think we have lost any rights in this country on account of non-white races being granted the right to vote or work. The largely-ignored Black History Month doesn't offend me, though maybe it could be re-named "American Heritage Month" to appease all audiences.

Gibson Les Paul, a man born on a train and named after his daddy's guitar, opened the car door and stepped out into the cool shade of the parking lot.

The whole place reverberated with vibrations, and they affected him just as they always had.

He began to vibrate in sync to them, changing his pitch to accommodate their chords.

The very stones of the place, gray and rough-quarried, resounded with church music that soared up the scale like a rocket to heaven, accompanied by the thundering of speeches and many voices speaking many languages.

He turned a corner as he walked, and blinked, thinking he had run into a wall, but there was no wall there.

"There are zeitgeists here." came into his head, and he nodded to himself as he felt the age-old buildings still time-stamping their presence long after they were gone.

The Scarritt-Bennett Center stood green and gothic under the midday sun, shielded from the direct rays, except for the very tops of the baking roofs, by trees that seemed as ancient as the stones that made up the buildings, and the lonely tree-shaded sidewalks were sent buckling by ancient roots.

Last time at the Dreamland Festival 1 he had stayed at the Union Station Hotel, another re-invented ancient monument that was a train station in a past life.

Hermes sat atop a tower there, but that's not what would sit upon a tower here, besides perhaps a cross-wielding gargoyle or two staring perpetually into the nothingness, keeping it locally free from the evil spirits of the Kingdoms of the Air.

He smiled, fondly remembering the bar at the Union Station and the participants from the festival chatting gayly and perchance ignoring moderation, and he soon realized there would be nothing like that here, as this former Church School was non-smoking and temperate to a fault.

He shuddered, remember a forced visit in his youth to a Baptist Retreat where there was more rules about what you couldn't do, than there were people attending the Retreat.

He checked in at Laskey Hall, a larger stone edifice housing the Administrative section, under the symbol of the Methodist's Knowledge-Flame.

There were grooves in the stone floor where many so feet had walked.

He had a vision of the millions of them, all over time, leaving the hallowed halls here for destinations unknown, slight fearful, but confident with their missionary zeal.

A million languages assailed his ears from long-dust tongues, and he focused his attention on the local noises to drown them out.

There was a typing sound coming from behind a door, and the air conditioning unit whispered unintelligible phrases in several different keys as it blew cold air down the dustless hallway.

He checked in, requesting a first floor room and no room-sharing, paying extra to keep it that way.

He liked being on his own, preferring it to company even, the solitude helping to accentuate the soundtrack playing forever in his head, and a roommate might be fun, and but also might cramp his style, especially if they were star-struck.

Most people weren't in the same physical shape he was in, as he loved walking and did it as much as possible, his footsteps beating in time to the particular song that his subconscious chose for his soundtrack that day, and he really didn't want conversation unless it was highly advanced, just like he liked his music.

Highly advanced music, with its cascading harmonies and interference patterns and intentional discord, was an acquired taste, and a roommate might not like it, or his constant humming as he vibrated with everything that he contacted.

He made his way to Gibson Hall, merely a freak coincidence that it bore his name, and one he didn't particularly like.

Perhaps it amused the bored check-in lady to assign him that dormitory, but he was humming a discordant requiem for coincidence by the time he reached the door of the Hall.

The room was small, reminding him of his private boarding school days, and the Baptist Retreat, although this wasn't as bare boned as that hell-hole, and also that awful Scottish hotel that his Agent though was quaint where the landlady required temperance in everything including bath water, although you could smoke there oddly enough, and you couldn't do that here at all.

Twin beds filled the refurbished room, their yellowish-green bed coverings contrasting oddly with the ocher walls.

Yep, the private-school-remembered shared bathroom lay between the rooms, gleaming at him with newly reworked plumbing.

The rooms offered voice-mail, email and wireless internet for their guests, but his blackberry needed a charge not connectivity, and he growled a dirge, wondering when technology would allow charging batteries over-the-air without having to connect them to a wire.

He chose to defer the task and went downstairs to the Hall's lounge.

Whitley, Anne, William and a whole bunch of other people had arrived and were taking up residence in the Hall's overstuffed and now overcrowded Lounge, and they made a few jokes about his name and that of the Hall that he met with a forced positive smile.

He had had quite enough of that in his private school days, and soon they picked up on that and left the subject.

But still he excused himself and went for a walk, mainly because the Hall's lounge was so full and still filling up more and he was becoming claustrophobic at all the conflicting chords of energy, and they had begun to notice him.

Gray Hall housed a buffet-style cafeteria that was either never open or never closed as far as he could tell since there was no posted schedule for meals.

The Cloisters at Bennett Hall beckoned to him, their antique slate arches with prominent keystones reminding him of the stones lining the right path at the Capitol Mall.

He had had a vision there at the Mall, sort of a negative image, as if everything was reversed, but it only lasted a few seconds, and it really didn't affect him much, and now he hardly remembered it.

The Tower, also flanked by its own keystone'd arches soared in architectural splendor, accompanied in his head by a soaring organ, but he wished for more info on where things were, as his college days were a long time ago for him, and he didn't miss that campus even one bit, almost setting the grass alight and definitely leaving skid marks in the street with the speed he flew out of there after graduation.

This place was even more complicated, and carried a whole different rhythm, since everywhere he turned there was another Chapel, almost like in ancient Egypt where it seemed that each year or victory or change of reign brought yet another Chapel, and it seemed that this was also the case here, with outbuildings and additions making a labyrinth like the one in the much-touted International Garden and Labyrinth here on this campus.

He could see the top of the 'Peace Pole' that fronted the Garden and its associated Art Gallery, where, according to legend, sworn enemies or a feuding personage or even a wanted assassin could lay hands to that Peace Pole and have no fear or their enemies while in its jurisdiction here on campus.

A snarl growled through the air and he vibrated with it, wondering if there was a Minotaur in their Labyrinth or if just some overloaded construction truck was grinding its way through the nearby Vanderbilt University

If he had a choice, he'd choose the Minotaur, at least as long as it stayed comfortably in the Labyrinth.

He caught the whiff of burning sage, and wondered if the smoke-free campus was also incense-free, then he caught the high note of copal and smiled, hoping whoever it was doing it didn't get caught illegally smudging.

His wanderings brought him back to the dining hall again, and this time it was open, and within the smells directed him to the usual cafeteria fare of franks and beans, ham and beans, fish and cabbage, and marvelously lumpy mac and cheese, served with pull-apart rolls, and for afters there was pineapple and grapes and Green Jello.

Trying hard to ignore his battery's over-taxed state, he read the Scarritt-Bennett website material while he ate, connecting to the local free wifi.

He often had his nose in something during breakfast and sometimes lunch, and since he had had neither today, he supposed this would count as his morning meal, even though it was more approaching evening than noon.

"SCARRITT-BENNETT CENTER was organized in 1988 as a non-profit conference, retreat and educational center, committed to empowerment through cross-cultural understanding, education, creativity and spiritual renewal. The Centers Missionary Societies and the Methodist Episcopal Church South. The Dining Hall, built at the same time, was paid for from local funds.


Mr. Henry Hibbs, a Nashville architect, won national awards for his work on these buildings, which are a modified Collegiate Gothic style. The buildings were constructed from colored Crab Orchard (Tennessee rubble) stone, which was quarried in East Tennessee,
and the casement windows of the original structures were imported from England.

However beautiful, the Center is more than just buildings, and it was here at Scarritt, that students were educated about different cultures, languages and traditions. Staff and fellow students were often from other countries serving to further enrich the learning experience. The skills and knowledge acquired on this campus equipped men and women to function in the midst of wars, famine, and severe poverty as they served in countries needing assistance, as well as in domestic situations.

This began the legacy upon which the Centers Division of the United Methodist Church purchased the buildings and grounds, and the 10 acres became Scarritt-Bennett Center, under the direction of the SBC Board.

For many years Scarritt has opened its doors, welcomed and embraced without discrimination
based on racial, social or faith issues. Today Scarritt-Bennett Center remains dedicated the legacy of Scarritt College and Scarritt Graduate School and the missionaries, educators and musicians who were trained here, by providing a haven for those seeking to
gather in an environment that is nurturing, conducive to open dialogue, and available to all faiths and cultures."

The place was an interesting box of chocolates, a meeting place of multiple cultures designed to teach cultural diversity and expose the young missionaries they trained to the language and looks of different nations that they may possibly be serving in.

Zeitgeists of many languages filled his mind again and he concentrated on the taste of the meal, but they persisted and he couldn't drown them out.

The words vibrated through him, hinting at an ancient hidden secret, and other things, other rituals, that had been done here in ancient times long before he was even born.

That one final voice, the breathless, youngish, feminine voice, shook him a bit as it said its last: "Whatever you do, don't follow the Light!"

----------------------

He awoke in the night, sweating, and there was a tiny drop blood on the pillow, but he could find no injury.

Either the guest rooms were not as clean as he thought, or there was trouble brewing, and he hummed a few bars of a popular tune, concentrating on the hooks, to call himself down.

The clock ticked over to 3:33 am.

A misty blue light began to shine from the windows beneath the building across the way, the voice of the warning held its breath, and he turned, under a compulsion greater than his own.

If he had only had someone sharing his room, then they could perhaps break this siren call!

Fingers gripped door-lock steel, and his muscles involuntarily turned the lever.

He blacked out, walking quickly down the hallway toward the door.

He came to his senses, surrounded by pulsing, self-luminous blue mist, in a totally unfamiliar place.

The soundtrack was now from John Carpenter, and he felt fear tingle through his bloodstream as the glands pumped with their ancient survival fight-or-flight song.

He tried to look around and see where he was, peering through the almost-dark, but the blue mist hid just as much as it revealed.

Only the center of the room could he see, and he judged that he was underground, perhaps in the basement of the building where the light had appeared.

The compulsion had left him, and he approached the center of the room gingerly.

Tree roots grew down from the ceiling, and inside that cage lay the blue-while mist, surrounding a softly glowing yellow-orange egg-shaped orb.

A rainbow iridescence covered its surface, and the colors shifted as he moved.

It brightened as he approached, and he tried to back away, the xenophobic fear of the unknown choking him!

An ancient vortex opened between the worlds, with the edge right at his feet!

He suddenly felt very tired and knew that his energy was lower than normal, and he turned to run, but where was there a door in this place?

He took one faltering step and the choking fear stabbed him, and he fell to the floor in a heap.

--------------------------------

He awoke with his mind jumping like a flea on a hot skillet between one thing and another, and he couldn't seem to calm down as the fear filled his heart, and ate at his mind.

The orb was right there, and he went back toward it, but nothing happened except that he walked toward it, there was no opening generated for him to go back through.

Dawn found him still attempting to go back through, away from this place that he feared.

With the light came vision, and it froze him in his tracks.

His eyes saw a negative image of everything!

Black was white, and white was black!

He flung himself at the orb and tried desperately to go back to his world again but nothing happened.

Resigning himself that he could not stay here and find another way to make it back home again, he made his way out of the basement, but having no memory of how he had gotten in here made it even more difficult than it should have been.

Everything was like a negative of a picture on film, and his eyes began to ache trying to see.

There was something in his way as he tried to go back to his room, the only place he knew in this awful hell-hole.

It bumped into him, and it sapped his strength with the contact!

He thought he would pass out, as the eyes of the thing widened to black pits, while the body of the thing was still glowing white!

Gibberish filled the air as the thing showed a white hole where its mouth should be.

It even had teeth and a tongue, and he could see it moving as the thing moved its mouth!

The flurry of odd language stopped, and the thing pushed him out of the way as it continued on down the black sidewalk amid the glowing white trees.

He watched it go, his heart pounding!

His mind was screaming, where the hell was he???

Dodging a few more of the moving blobs, he finally made it back to the room, where at least his clothes were there, and they were the only normal thing he could see.

There was nobody else in the building, and the place reeked with staleness and damp, but he felt he was safe for the moment.

There was no church music in these stones, but death-metal and painful screaming.

His positive energy was all wrong here, and he vibrated with the music in the stones that howled with fury and fear!

Black torches suddenly flickered in the white background, and he realized that they were searching for him.

Fear came again as he watched them poke and prod the white bushes, and it seemed that the taller ones were the bosses, as they were the only ones that spoke during their hunting.

His mind screamed again that this just could not be happening, but it was!

Stifling the urge to run back to the gate room, since it had remained stubbornly closed to him so far and there was no guarantee going back there would help any, he laid low in the room, exploring with his hands as his eyes betrayed him.

The funny thing was that everything felt normal to his hands, like he was still right in the regular room where he had put his stuff, and he tried the blackberry, but again the contrast of the darkness and the light made the letters on the screen unreadable.

His mind went to what he would do if he couldn't get back home, but he pulled it away by focusing on the room.

The ocher walls were now dark gray, and the beds were white blobs on the white floor.

There was no way he was sleeping here, regardless of how long he stayed in this backwards world!

He stressed to himself that he was safe for the moment, but he knew that he was not in his world, even though it was similar, it was not the same.

The torch-bearers were slowly working their way across campus, going further away from his room, and one of them carried what looked like a black pendulum that he swung now and again, perhaps dowsing for his location.

His breathing and heart-rate slowed and he became aware of his regular thoughts again, and began analyzing his situation.

In our world, the whole point of this campus had been to teach diversity and cultural exchange, but here, in this world, it seemed to be just the opposite, to indoctrinate and train assassins of positivity.

Positivity here is met with anger, fear and hatred, almost like the flip side of a coin, and he realized in a flash that to recognize positive energy meant also recognizing negative energy, the flip side of the coin.

"Holistic" came into his head, and he realized that positive and negative sides of a coin made a coin.

Above and below were two halves of the same whole thing.

Analysis of his condition left him still stuck here, but with this new attitude, he thought that one of these negative people coming into his positive world would have probably have met the same attitude that these people here showed him.

Dusk finally darkened into true night and he moved at last, heading for the Garden area, and the Peace Pole, hopefully to find solace there, or at least an end to the hunt.

Misty blue light was coming from under another building!

Skirting the open areas, he finally got to the door, and in desperation of the Gate closing on him, he ran straight at the blue mist.

He huddled himself together as there came a lurching and twisting in his stomach, and slowly opening his eyes, he saw white as white, and black as black!

He was back home again!

Oh blessed positive world, where his eyes saw only what was familiar!

A flash of insight came, and he suddenly realized what it must have been like for the young white missionaries, experienced with seeing their white-only segregated world, that passed through this place on their way to the other side of the world.

Intolerance from fear was more than just fearing differences, it was the absence of Love.

Acceptance of the outre' and the differently appearing and the fearfully strange, joined both sides of the coin into one wholeness, fomenting tolerance through love, which was the skinny twisted door between the hard pillars of the Gate, and also the only way into Heaven.

The End

When I see the confederate fly I naturally consider the person parading it to be racist until told other wise, but that is to be safe.

Some state flags have the Confederate stars and stripes on them. Does that make them racist states? Just saying. Sometimes "being safe" simply means choosing to remain ignorant. Obviously the Confederate flag alone does not make a person racist. If they are also wearing KKK clothes and walking around with Nazi flags, then I think its safe to say they are most likely racist. I think the people who choose to include the Confederate flag with racism are a disgrace to those who simply have southern pride, again a cultural link to something that is real and has no intention of being racist.

Saying people who fly the Confederate flag are all racist is a bit like saying people who fly an Irish flag are all drunks. To stereotypes, neither of which is true. And I'm not saying that you are saying that anybody who displays that flag is a racist. I'm saying, as a suggestion, don't make assumptions about it without a bit more detail one way or the other.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Apr 6 2009, 07:42 PM

“Some state flags have the Confederate stars and stripes on them. Does that make them racist states? Just saying. Sometimes "being safe" simply means choosing to remain ignorant.”

Did you know that some people‘s opinions are shaped by life experiences?

As a woman of color I am not going to walk up to a bunch of white men wearing the confederate flag and say “hi, whats sup dude?” because of past experiences, (being taunted and nearly assaulted by some on a school field trip). I have heard the whole “confederate flag is my way to express southern pride”., but to me that flag traditionally represents racism, sorry.

“Saying people who fly the Confederate flag are all racist is a bit like saying people who fly an Irish flag are all drunks. To stereotypes, neither of which is true.”

Well technically one shouldn’t be nervous around a man wearing a ski mask, sun glasses and black gloves, just because it’s a stereotypical outfit of a criminal.

“as a suggestion, don't make assumptions about it without a bit more detail one way or the other.”

My suggestion is to take your own advice also and not make assumptions about me or any other person without more detail on why I have my opinions.

I didn’t add my two cents to argue back and fourth with people. I’m not politically correct I guess, if your wearing a confederate flag, which is traditional seen as a white pride/racist symbol, then I’m not going to get friendly with you.

Sorry if I sound rude, but these types of debates get me animated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sport_boxing.gif)

This post has been edited by Aphrodite: Apr 6 2009, 09:24 PM

Nothing wrong with white people being proud of being white... its the part where it seems to lean toward unwarrented violence against others thats a problem, the, ''we're better than everyone else.... so lets wipe them all out'' part .lol.

Plenty of european media companies and holidays out there as there should be in any given country or nation.

A better question would be, ''what is racism''. People call it skin colour but why does being melinated, a substance that everyone has from their skin to their inner organs seem to play a part in the way a person is treated in western society? Us Black African folk aren't racist, at all, its not a part of who we are, some are pissed off based on past and present experiences but they/we don't sit on websites and talk about killing innocent people or think of ways to drain a nations resources to the point where the people are starving make it a system and call it capitalism .lol.

Think most simply want repirations for the crimes commited against them, its companies rather than governments now but some peoples Great great grand parents were horribly abused to create the wealth seen in many countries today and the decendants of those people still don't hate indiscriminatly, think its justice they're after more than blood.

All in all theres nothing wrong with anyones pride so long as it dosen't involve anyone else.

Peace
.M.

Did you know that some people‘s opinions are shaped by life experiences?

No I did not know... I've never personally been called racist or gay or a weirdo or crazy or socialist or any number of things.... (sarcasm)

Of course people's opinions are shaped by past experiences! But that doesn't make them right. When someone says they have black pride do you assume they are racist? Or just proud of their heritage? Why should it be any different for a white person unless they follow it with some ungodly diatrible about white supremecy? Less than 1% of whites have any affiliation with any racist organization. And some of those organizations are just fronts for more crimminal activities (like the Aryan Brotherhood).

As a woman of color I am not going to walk up to a bunch of white men wearing the confederate flag and say “hi, whats sup dude?” because of past experiences, (being taunted and nearly assaulted by some on a school field trip). I have heard the whole “confederate flag is my way to express southern pride”., but to me that flag traditionally represents racism, sorry.

If I happened upon a bunch of white dudes with a bunch of confederate flags and anything else that showed they were some how racist or Nazi or KKK. I probbaly wouldn't approach them either and I am white. I mean I am WHITE. Through and through. But I was raised catholic, I have long hair, I am pro choice, I want to legalize weed and I really don't care if gays want to get married. I know that because of my beliefs, not just my skin color, that most white supremecist would want nothing to do with me even though I am probably more white than they are.

The same is also true if I see a bunch of Mexicans wearing certain colors and displaying other signs that somehow show a possible threat to me. Nobody is going to intentionally put themselves in a situation they know is dangerous unless they intend to really get something out of it.

Short history lesson (one you probably missed in grade school). The civil war was never about racism or slavery until the Amancipation proclaimation. Declaring blacks free in the North was a tactical decision on the part of the Lincoln administration to portray the south as a racist state, which ruined its credibility as a legitimate nation and ultimately ensured that the South would never get any support from European nations. The Confederate flag, which was just a symbol of the union formed by Southern states, ultimately became a symbol of slavery and racism. Groups like the KKK only fanned the flames of the fire and ensured that that flag would be associated with racism, even though most southerns are not racist.

Well technically one shouldn’t be nervous around a man wearing a ski mask, sun glasses and black gloves, just because it’s a stereotypical outfit of a criminal.

Where do you live? Here in Colorado at this time of year, I would just assume he was going skiing or snow boarding!

My suggestion is to take your own advice also and not make assumptions about me or any other person without more detail on why I have my opinions.

I didn’t add my two cents to argue back and fourth with people. I’m not politically correct I guess, if your wearing a confederate flag, which is traditional seen as a white pride/racist symbol, then I’m not going to get friendly with you.

I do not need to make assumptions. You've plainly said that you associate the Confederate flag with racism. Maybe its just the area you are at. If I was in down town New York, LA or other parts of this country, it might be easier to understand you're point of view. But where I live, many people display the Confederate flag. Its nothing more than a sign of heritage, not hate. Do not assume that just because I have white pride that I am racist. I think racism is one of the fundamental problems with humanity and it has lead to genocide and it will continue to lead to genocide. But I am simply proud of my family origin. If you don't want to be friendly with people because of that, then that is your own choice to do so. Just don't expect them to be friendly back - and so the cycle of hate only continues.

“But that doesn't make them right. When someone says they have black pride do you assume they are racist? Or just proud of their heritage? Why should it be any different for a white person unless they follow it with some ungodly diatrible about white supremecy?”

When did I mention anything about not assuming people proclaiming Black Pride isn’t racist but whites who do are? That’s been contary to my experiences.

“Why should it be any different for a white person unless they follow it with some ungodly diatrible about white supremecy?”

I thought we were discussing the confederate flag, is the confederate flag a symbol for white pride?

The confederate flag is associated with racism despite its original purpose. If one chooses to flaunt it, then I personally assume they are declaring a racist belief. I’m not going to shoot anyone in the head or deny them anything, I’m just going to assume they have a “whites only“ view.

Where do you live? Here in Colorado at this time of year, I would just assume he was going skiing or snow boarding!
Ok you got me LOL

Do not assume that just because I have white pride that I am racist.

No, but usually people caught up/place a huge importance in race vs. culture/nationality have a separatist view and don’t tend to get "close" to people of a different race or believe that skin color dictates behavior.

I understand being proud of your culture/nationality but skin color? that’s just silly to me, people are people. I’m not proud of having 1.2 x more melanin than a white person.

Why can’t people get over race?

I thought we were discussing the confederate flag, is the confederate flag a symbol for white pride?

The confederate flag is associated with racism despite its original purpose. If one chooses to flaunt it, then I personally assume they are declaring a racist belief. I’m not going to shoot anyone in the head or deny them anything, I’m just going to assume they have a “whites only“ view.

I have a confederate flag in my room with a sign below it that says "heritage, not hate". I would hope that to you that would be a senario where you would not jump to racism. At any rate I would say that Jonny Reb is more about southern pride than white pride - to me at least. I do know there are a lot of whites who flaunt it as a symbol of racism.

I understand being proud of your culture/nationality but skin color? that’s just silly to me, people are people. I’m not proud of having 1.2 x more melanin than a white person.

Why can’t people get over race?

We should have just skipped the banter and got to this point.... I totally agree. I could careless about being white (what ever that is anyway). Personally its just about family origins and heritage.

The confederate flag brings back memories of ''those times'', white supremecists use it to make a point even though there were more Africans held in slavery in the North of America than in the south back then, the Africans held in the North would work in peoples houses and so the level of abuse wasn't as there as it was in the south where Africans were kept in pens and treated like animals, more like pets in the North, so the issue of their freedom along with the on going uprisings in other places where Africans were held meant it was time for things to change.

Do find that a lot of europeans or ''white people'' think we're being backward brining it up but the impact of those times is still seen today and in many peoples families, books were written on how to break the spirit of those held in captivity for the next few hundred years, terrible, terrible crimes were commited to keep a people in mental bondage, along with our deeply held belief in the spirit/s of our ancestors its ''almost'' as though it made a genetic imprint onto those who survived so confederate flag almost automatically means evil, its nearing a par with the Nazi swastika.

Black Power meant and (still means) Black empowerment, an attempt to undo the impact of what I just mentioned, to break those mental chains, rebuild communities, help with issues on the continent (Africa), and clean up the ghetto... its not within the intrests of western governments to see these things happen (someone has to be poor) so leaders are hit with trumped up charges and imprisoned, most were killed back in the 60's / 70's leading to a leaderless state in America, after Vietnam crack, heroine and so on became rife and things deteriorated, before that things were bad but not so bad.

All in all Black Empowerment has nothing to do with skin colour any more than a shattered sence of self esteem needs rebuilding, we're diverse genetically and culturally speaking, some of us ''black'' people are pale skinned in complexion and could be/are often mistaken for being european, some are a shade of yellow, some are light brown, some a darker brown and some are all out darkskinned.

Nothing wrong with white pride past the fact that it seems to carry an ideal of being ''pure'', deems those who are pigmented as being less than human or animals based on colonialist and adage european musings on the populations of other nations being uncivilized in order to excuse their genocides when the truth is we have had plenty of civilizations to our names as have the Amer-Indians and others .lol. Most would still assume that we were running around naked and senceless in jungles at the time only to be shocked and surprised to find that we forged iron, had been farming for a good while, lived in compounds and urban like landscapes had our own understanding of mathmatics, medicine and so on... much of Africa has been driven backwards and needs rebuilding past the want and greed of corrupt governments and officials.... and of course some of us like being naked and running around in the jungle but its not so senceless, they've got their own thing going on .lol.

This post has been edited by Mchawi: Apr 16 2009, 11:23 AM

That’s true but like anything, there are extremist. I knew a few involved with a black power organization. They (the organization) held racist views (IE. Gain a high position and don’t hire whites, don’t mingle with them, etc), and wouldn’t allow one of my friends to enlist because of her “light” complexion (she isn‘t even that light). Colorism is a huge problem with American black.

“Most would still assume that we were running around naked and senceless in jungles at the time only to be shocked and surprised to find that we forged iron, had been farming for a good while, lived in compounds and urban like landscapes had our own understanding of mathmatics, medicine and so on…”

That’s the reason why Arabs, and Egyptians aren’t associated with being “black” or African in the modern mind. Writings prove that blacks and Arabs (physically some probably resemble being “black“) shared the same land, and culture, even in the Bible some characters are mentioned as what we would refer as Black. Because mathematics and writing were first invented in an Arab nation, also with the amazing architecture of Egypt, Europeans, made a distinction between actual Africans and Arabs, to support the slave trade, and Africans being inferior.

I was watching a film in my World History class, that showed an interview of an Arab stating that Egypt and Westernized countries would view/regard him as African and not Arab based on his physical appearance.

The pseudo-science of phrenology was what was used to justify slavery back in those days. Certain shapes and figures of the human body were considered to show better genetics and superior being. A large cranium without a large slopping forehead was considered a sign of higher intelligence. Because many other primates are dark in color, dark skin was associated with inferiority. This was backed by the notion that in Africa, Australia and the south east pacific, the native people's were mainly tribal and not considered civilized.

According to phrenology at the time, the reason whites were "better" was because they were the only color of people to develop so much technology - which is a total slap in the face to those in the Mid-East, China and Japan. Whites were considered to be the supreme race while Orientals and those in the middle east were sort of stuck in the middle (even though Persians are Aryan!) and blacks were considered to be the most inferior. When slavery was abolished blacks didn't magickally become as superior as whties. And resentment towards black equality was met with Jim Crow laws and segregation. The term "seperate but equal" became the adage of the day and no they were not actually equal.

As far as the actual treatment of blacks - Northerners were just as cruel as Southerners and just as guilty of mistreating them. Many in the North were just as racist as those in the South. That and Southerns had house slaves as well, those that were not allowed to sleep in the house, but were allowed to cook and clean and do other taskts inside. When the Union invaded the South, the army killed many blacks or forced them to work for them. And to be fair, many blacks were told to act as human sheilds for the Confederate army. When Lincoln gave the Emancipation Proclaimation, the North gained a moral high ground and it helped to legitimize the Civil War even though slavery was a minor issue for the South. The funny thing is Abe's speech alone did not free the slaves.

The Confederacy originally formed because Southern states felt victimized by a congress that favored northern industrialization and growth. Even though the South was given representation, Northern representatives out numbered them and could block or pass any issue they wanted. The big issues had to do with industrialization, taxation, trade with other countries and northern favoratism. Slavery was just a minor issue. Not only that but the truly fickle thing, had slavery been abolished in the south, it would have crippled the southern economy (and it did for a brief time after the Civil war). The point is the south had grown so dependent on slave labor that it was the key source of their income. And slaves did out number whites. Which is why the 3/5ths law was proposed (which would have allowed each adult black male to count as 3/5ths of a vote) - to give the south a more fair edge in elections.

At any rate, enough of the history lessons. I just wanted to point out that the Civil War happened for more legitimate reasons than just slavery. You could argue that the southern states had every political right to cede from the Union and form their own government. Some in the South still regard the Civil War as the "war of Northern aggression". And to date, the Civil War is still the conflict that holds the biggest loss of American life. Every conflict from the first world war to Iraq combined, still does not equal the life lost in the Civil War.

“As far as the actual treatment of blacks - Northerners were just as cruel as Southerners and just as guilty of mistreating them. Many in the North were just as racist as those in the South.”

No one even mentioned they thought Southerners were evil and Northerners holy. I was just revealing one way Europeans justified slavery and the inferiority of Africans, despite the achievements of Arab nations who are equally African, but aren’t associated with black Africans because of racism.

There is no lesson here. I’ve taken Archaeology and Anthropology courses so please spare me the essays., its redundant. I’m tried of the confederate flag debate. Feel free to wear a confederate flag shirt while walking down the diverse streets of my neighbor hood you’ll meet many with my view. If you choose to wear a symbol associated with racism that’s your right, I’ve personally met enough bigoted confederate flag flaunters to still associated the symbol with hate. Maybe things will change if many wouldn’t use the symbol as hate.

“Slavery was just a minor issue. Not only that but the truly fickle thing, had slavery been abolished in the south, it would have crippled the southern economy (and it did for a brief time after the Civil war).”

Yeah, well I’m sorry slavery ended, I feel sorry for those white southerners, they were just trying to help out us poor, primate colored, sloping forehead people.

“You could argue that the southern states had every political right to cede from the Union and form their own government.”

The southerners were for slavery (I‘m sure there were some Northerners for it), end of story.

“The Confederacy originally formed because Southern states felt victimized by a congress that favored northern industrialization and growth.”

I’m sure that compares greatly to the millions of lives ruined and destroyed.

Anyways I’m done debating Acid on this. Lets agree to disagree on everything.

That’s the reason why Arabs, and Egyptians aren’t associated with being “black” or African in the modern mind. Writings prove that blacks and Arabs (physically some probably resemble being “black“) shared the same land, and culture, even in the Bible some characters are mentioned as what we would refer as Black. Because mathematics and writing were first invented in an Arab nation, also with the amazing architecture of Egypt, Europeans, made a distinction between actual Africans and Arabs, to support the slave trade, and Africans being inferior.

No, they're probably not considered black because they aren't - in appearance, culture, or history. I don't believe black Africans ever shared the Middle East with Arabs, and Egyptians (as their various murals reveal) have always been physically and culturally distinct from the African cultures to the south of them (see their relationship with Nubia, for instance).


***

As a Texan, I should probably support the Confederacy, but I can't see it as anything except a tragic waste of life and energy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 17 2009, 02:19 AM

is it 7 basic races, or 5?

so one per each of the elohim? - that is, if you believe we were created then allowed to evolve on our own (my whacked view) - engineered, then adapting over time to the environment, so preserving the racial characteristics?

if not engineered, then there must have been 1thing that -> into 7 (or 5), then evolved from there to produce and maintain the races?

(this is not to make this a debate on creation/evolution, since both are way too simplistic concepts for a very complicated situation, and evolution happens, as well as entropy)

No, they're probably not considered black because they aren't - in appearance, culture, or history. I don't believe black Africans ever shared the Middle East with Arabs, and Egyptians (as their various murals reveal) have always been physically and culturally distinct from the African cultures to the south of them (see their relationship with Nubia, for instance).
***

As a Texan, I should probably support the Confederacy, but I can't see it as anything except a tragic waste of life and energy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

They are Arabic, having dark skin and stereotypical “African” features does not make one less Arabic than someone with typical (via Westernized Media) Arab look.

I mean there are some Indians with darker skin and larger lips than many black friends I have, that doesn’t make them less Indian.

I get called Moroccan all the time by people (people who've actually seen the world), and I’m not. I have dark skin but not “African” features, so I that blows your mind that people think I'm Moroccan.

Your ignorance shows how easy the media brainwashes people, I mean one TV show and people think they understand the world.

Have you even seen pictures of Arab nations? There are Africans living there, plus how else would Islam spread.

Also Israel is stereotyped to have Arab looking folks but I've meet many that look white.

“is it 7 basic races, or 5?”

I have no idea, according to racial standards via the media, I’m not anything. Too dark to be Arab, and my features aren’t correct enough for African.

I think I’m done with this forum, its too ignorant.

They are Arabic, having dark skin and stereotypical “African” features does not make one less Arabic than someone with typical (via Westernized Media) Arab look.

Yes, it does, at least in a genealogical sense. The "original" Arabs came from the Middle East and migrated to various parts of Africa as well.

Have you even seen pictures of Arab nations? There are Africans living there, plus how else would Islam spread.

Sure, the Arabic peoples and African peoples have a long history together. I'm sorry, I wasn't clear above. What I mean by "I don't believe black Africans ever shared the Middle East with Arabs" is that for most of history, the moreso the earlier you go, blacks and Arabs lived in different areas and developed different cultures... not that black people never emigrated to the Middle East.

I am only suggesting that perhaps people aren't trying to be racist when they categorize Arabs as different from black Africans.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 17 2009, 07:54 PM

Yes, it does, at least in a genealogical sense. The "original" Arabs came from the Middle East and migrated to various parts of Africa as well.
Sure, the Arabic peoples and African peoples have a long history together. I'm sorry, I wasn't clear above. What I mean by "I don't believe black Africans ever shared the Middle East with Arabs" is that for most of history, the moreso the earlier you go, blacks and Arabs lived in different areas and developed different cultures... not that black people never emigrated to the Middle East.

I am only suggesting that perhaps people aren't trying to be racist when they categorize Arabs as different from black Africans.

Your not using logic, just ignorance. Black is a physical feature via sterotypes. An Arab who has sterotypical black features is still Arab. There are many Arabs that look "African" to an ignorant Westerner.

What is an "original" Arab, and how do they look like?

Your not using logic, just ignorance. Black is a physical feature via sterotypes. An Arab who has sterotypical black features is still Arab. There are many Arabs that look "African" to an ignorant Westerner.

What is an "original" Arab, and how do they look like?

I think I see the problem here.

Yes, there are many who self-identify as Arabs while being from a different ethnic group altogether. The same goes for Jews; but there is also a recognizable ethnicity referred to as "Arab" or "Jewish" (although I will concede that using these terms this way is not strictly correct: "Arab" is now more of a political moniker than genealogical one, and a Jew is just a follower of that religion). I am referring to "ethnic" Arabs: descendants of one of these {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribes_of_Arabia } tribes. They are Semitic, not negroid.

In the modern era, defining who is an Arab is done on the grounds of one or more of the following three criteria:

* Genealogical: someone who can trace his or her ancestry to the tribes of Arabia - the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula - and the Syrian Desert. This definition covers fewer self-identified Arabs than not, and was the definition used in medieval times, for example by Ibn Khaldun.

That's why the word is widely used to mean not just people of Arabic culture, but ethnic Arabs. Like I said, I don't think it's an attempt to be racist; rather, the newer definition is now expanded to include all those affected and "converted" by the Arabic Empire.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 17 2009, 10:04 PM

I think I see the problem here.

Yes, there are many who self-identify as Arabs while being from a different ethnic group altogether. The same goes for Jews; but there is also a recognizable ethnicity referred to as "Arab" or "Jewish" (although I will concede that using these terms this way is not strictly correct: "Arab" is now more of a political moniker than genealogical one, and a Jew is just a follower of that religion). I am referring to "ethnic" Arabs: descendants of one of these {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribes_of_Arabia } tribes. They are Semitic, not negroid.
That's why the word is widely used to mean not just people of Arabic culture, but ethnic Arabs. Like I said, I don't think it's an attempt to be racist; rather, the newer definition is now expanded to include all those affected and "converted" by the Arabic Empire.

What the hell are you talking about? Being born from a different ethnic group? Someone with African features and skin color can be Arabic. Just like Indians can have dark/black skin and still be equally Indian. I dont understand why your giving me wikipedia links. Your basing people's linenages on sterotypes. With your logic I'm Arabic because I fit that facial discription, however I am not.

“Nubia is the homeland of one of Africa's earliest black civilization, with a history which can be traced from 2000 B.C. onward through Nubian monuments and artifacts as well as written records from Egypt and Rome.”

“In 2300 BC, Nubia was first mentioned in Old Kingdom Egyptian accounts of trade missions.”

Some quotes from wikipedia. Obviously “black” looking Africans had contact with Middle Eastern looking people. Mixing intermingling occurred. Also Ethiopians mixed with Middle Eastern folks and this is all during the BC era.

Nubia and Ancient Egypt were at one time ruled by the same King hence black Africans sharing culture with traditional “middle eastern” looking folks. That’s a shock isn’t it! Since that was so far back ago I’m sure there are middle easterners with who look African. . .

“ Sudan . . . the largest country in the Arab World”

Have you seen the people in Sudan? They look African.

Search wikipedia, also google pictures of “Arabic” people.

Also stop being petty and immature. Obviously a Jew is a follower of a religion, be it also represents an ethnic group its not correct, but neither is claiming anyone with black features (whatever that is) isn’t “Arabic”.

I'm using the term Arabic loosely. And the term "Negroid" is out dated and used in my area as an insult.

Not all people can fit into the narrow-minded racial standards people like you make.

My whole point was that racism made a point to distinguish “African” looking folks from having any part in Egyptian culture and Arabic culture to encourage slavery and explain the inferiority of Africans. Because obviously the achievements of these cultures represent intelligence. Now some people can’t comprehend seeing Arabic people with stereotypical African features and or refuse to acknowledge their linage based on narrow minded physical standards. That’s just one of many tactics of slave trade brainwashing. Also there are Nubian pyramids, which is because of the sharing of the same culture as Egyptians.

So before when I mentioned the interview in the film. In Egypt he is dismissed as being African despite being fully Middle Eastern. He just happened to have African features which makes sense when looking a history.

This is off topic and I’m done.

This post has been edited by Aphrodite: Apr 18 2009, 03:51 AM

Someone with African features and skin color can be Arabic. Just like Indians can have dark/black skin and still be equally Indian. I dont understand why your giving me wikipedia links.

Clearly not...

"Arab" can refer to: ethnic Arabs, which the Wikipedia article talks about - people descended from one of the original Arabian tribes; these people look Semitic; or "political" Arabs, which would include areas speaking Arabic and having an Arabic culture, like Sudan. The former definition is the first one, which was used to describe them as opposed to other races. I'm thinking it doesn't have anything to do with racism - it's just a term to refer to a certain people.

I'm sure there are many black Arabs today.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 18 2009, 07:48 PM

[quote name='Vilhjalmr' date='Apr 18

There is no lesson here. I’ve taken Archaeology and Anthropology courses so please spare me the essays., its redundant. I’m tried of the confederate flag debate.

That last post of mine was not aimed at you specifically, it was simply an attempt to share information that most people do not normally hear. If it is not something you want to read - don't read it. Most people hear the version of the Civil War where the North was just this Godly righteous state that was purging the south of backward politics and racism. Most people do not even attempt to try to see things from the southern point of view.

Yeah, well I’m sorry slavery ended, I feel sorry for those white southerners, they were just trying to help out us poor, primate colored, sloping forehead people.

Please don't take me out of context. I was just pointing out, from a historical angle, how dependent the south was on slavery. Just a note on the side I hope you didn't think I was saying phrenology is right. Its a "pseudo-science". Its not a real science based on anything factual. Just some old white dude's opinions.

The southerners were for slavery (I‘m sure there were some Northerners for it), end of story.

Actually quite a few southerns were NOT for slavery although most in office managed to keep it out of legislation, even before the Confederacy. It had come up several times and had the south stayed afloat and not remained a part of the US it would have only been a matter of time before they would have had to end slavery on their own. It was not a popular practice for anyone not living on a plantation. To be fair, it wasn't for a lack of racism. The Southern constitution clearly stated that the rights of men only applied to white men. But at the same time slavery was still considered an anti-Christian practice. While most Southern whites did have at least some racist view of blacks (which the demographics were not much different in the North) many whites thought that true Christian values did not in any way justify outright slavery.

I’m sure that compares greatly to the millions of lives ruined and destroyed.

Yes. It does. Had the Northern states shared assets and made fair legislation for the south, the civil war would have never happened. Had slavery been abolished before the Civil war, the southern states would still have ceded from the union. Politically speaking, slavery was a very minor issue to a white government that largely held racist views of its own - either the north or the south. It only became a big issue when Lincoln made it one.

Anyways I’m done debating Acid on this. Lets agree to disagree on everything.

Ok? As long as you reply to me I'm probably going to keep responding back though.

I think I’m done with this forum, its too ignorant.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) careful Aphrodite! Fortunately I know you are smart enough to not actually be ignorant, but you have made statements that someone could interpret as being ignorant yourself. Besides ITS FIGHT CLUB! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Its suppose to be full of heated debate. And people like you keep it interesting. So I hope the "ignorant" opinions of a few don't deter you enough to just leave the forum! That's just silly!

The "original" Arabs came from the Middle East and migrated to various parts of Africa as well.

Have you seen people from Yeman or Oman? Many tend to look really black and yet they are still of the Arabian penisula and speak Arabic and practice Arabic culture. Same is true for many tribal people's such as the Beduoin. Being Arabic (which is a descriptive cultural-ethnic term) simply refers to anyone who can trace all or part of their genetic heritage to the Arabian peninsula and the people there. Yes Arabic *culture* has spread across much of north Africa, yet most of those people are not purely Arabic but mixed with other cultural groups as well. So yeah there are plenty of people who can claim Arabic heritage and be white as can be or they can be black as well. Being Arabic is not limited to skin color.

That's why the word is widely used to mean not just people of Arabic culture, but ethnic Arabs. Like I said, I don't think it's an attempt to be racist; rather, the newer definition is now expanded to include all those affected and "converted" by the Arabic Empire.

There is a difference between ethnic Arabs and cultural Arabs. Ethnic Arabs do not simply speak Arabic or practice Arabic customs, they can literally trace their origins to Semitic people of the Middle East. Cultural Arabs are those who's geneology does not come directly from the Middle East but they have adopted Arabic language and custums.

Arabic Empire? Are you refering to the Caliphate of the 7th and 8th centuries?

Some state flags have the Confederate stars and stripes on them. Does that make them racist states? Just saying. Sometimes "being safe" simply means choosing to remain ignorant. Obviously the Confederate flag alone does not make a person racist. If they are also wearing KKK clothes and walking around with Nazi flags, then I think its safe to say they are most likely racist. I think the people who choose to include the Confederate flag with racism are a disgrace to those who simply have southern pride, again a cultural link to something that is real and has no intention of being racist.

Saying people who fly the Confederate flag are all racist is a bit like saying people who fly an Irish flag are all drunks. To stereotypes, neither of which is true. And I'm not saying that you are saying that anybody who displays that flag is a racist. I'm saying, as a suggestion, don't make assumptions about it without a bit more detail one way or the other.

Signs change like cultures. If you're flying the Hopi solar symbol, you're a nazi. You can argue all day about what that solar symbol really means but when people look at you, they will remember, some things should be let go.

Have you seen people from Yeman or Oman? Many tend to look really black and yet they are still of the Arabian penisula and speak Arabic and practice Arabic culture. Same is true for many tribal people's such as the Beduoin. Being Arabic (which is a descriptive cultural-ethnic term) simply refers to anyone who can trace all or part of their genetic heritage to the Arabian peninsula and the people there. Yes Arabic *culture* has spread across much of north Africa, yet most of those people are not purely Arabic but mixed with other cultural groups as well. So yeah there are plenty of people who can claim Arabic heritage and be white as can be or they can be black as well. Being Arabic is not limited to skin color.

There is a difference between ethnic Arabs and cultural Arabs. Ethnic Arabs do not simply speak Arabic or practice Arabic customs, they can literally trace their origins to Semitic people of the Middle East. Cultural Arabs are those who's geneology does not come directly from the Middle East but they have adopted Arabic language and custums.

This all seems to be exactly what I said, except for the part of Arabs from Yeman or Oman. They don't look black (as in negroid) to me, although some do have dark skin.

Arabic Empire? Are you refering to the Caliphate of the 7th and 8th centuries?

Yes, although I believe various incarnations extended slightly longer than that - to the ninth and tenth centuries?

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 22 2009, 01:37 AM