What defines how powerful a sorcerer is?, any comments Options

Hello everyone,

I know we all know the famous names of magick but nobody bothered to say why they are considered so powerful. I for one mostly practice chaos magick and the way I judge my power is by my results but then again thats just me, I also practice sorcery and I'm looking to get into ceremonial magick. But anyways I just wanted to put this out there so I can get some opinions.


PS I wont be able to go online for a while so please dont take offense if I dont reply quickly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sport_boxing.gif)

Greetings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tomato.gif)

Personally, I have never been impressed by the supposed 'power' of magicians past or present. To the reputed power of a magic for wielding their art is always exaggerated by false claims and by 'chinese whispers'.

Documented accounts of deeds done by a famous magician, to me, is never as it was. There will always have been bits added on here and there for more impact. The magician his or herself will have done the same to boost the 'appeal' of their working.

but nobody bothered to say why they are considered so powerful

It will always be a hearsay or political issue, in my eyes, which has been the source of the 'powerful magician' tag.

I reckon the most powerful magicians are the ones nobody gets to hear about; who shun publicity. Who just get on with it and their workings written in journals which never come before public scrutiny. In the vein of what I said above, any magical working which has astounded joe public will have been booted up from a minor miracle to a major cacophany to rise above the often damning sceptical critique of the general public.

Most of the claims are publicity stunts besides (again in my opinion). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif)

I think a powerful magician is one who is devoted to his work.

To me, a powerful mage is one who uses his skills in accordance with his higher self and for the good of all rather than the satisfaction of his own desires.

I think each individual has their own strengths - although I'm with Mr Merlins train of thought that the most powerful are those who don't blow their own trumpet and simply just are.

No matter how powerful someone might 'appear', if they don't have knowledge, COMPREHENSION, and be practicing effectively, then in my mind those appearances mean nothing.

Anu, could you say more about what you mean by comprehension; do you mean that a magickian must know what every part of each word he says is say in ritual or do you mean he must understand the workings of energy?

Which aspects?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Hello there Radiant, nice to 'meet' you!

I'm glad to expand on what I meant. I mean comprehension in all things. Energy, tools you might choose to use - their symbolism/purpose/WHY you need them, comprehension of every magical act - why you are doing it and how and why it works.

Let me give you a few examples. I know of an individual who does the LBRP, but in discussion it appears that they can't explain the purpose of it, what it does, the symbolism of each stage, and HOW and why it works. Now that is an extreme.

Another example is an individual on another message board who wants to create a spell. They know exactly what they want to manifest - their intent is VERY clear. They know exactly what to do and use and why those particular tools/ingredients are necessary for them and their purpose. However they aren't exactly sure HOW it is going to manifest, if at all. The knowledge is there, but that full comprehension isn't.

Understanding in my view, ensures confidence and inspiration and effectiveness. Even down to something seemingly simple, like knowing how the way I present myself to you in this post is important - understanding how my choice of wording and examples is going to give you a particular impression of me, whether you are going to like communicating with me, ask me more detailed questions etc.

I hope that makes sense - it's been a while since I've been a newbie anywhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Thank you Anu (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Now that is much clearer to me and it has given me much to consider.

In that case, I see that I have based my idea of how powerful a sorcerer or magickian is on how spiritually developed they are rather than concrete knowledge and this leads me to wondering if a magickian can reach the great heights as it were if he doesn't have a full comprehension of the things he appears to achieve.

In fact, it does open up a lot of new questions, but lets see if others can take the 'comprehension' aspect a bit further.

Another consideration should be a magicians level of contact with other worlds. How much the influence of entities of other realms and dimensions can influence or aid the magicians work.

Also a magicians level of competence/understanding and communication with entities including elementals etc.

Also the speed at which the desired result manifests/occurs after the magician has undertook a working. To me the more powerful means the more universal energy at the magicians disposal; the more universal energy the stronger the influence on existence the magician has and the more likely the result.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tomato.gif)

This post has been edited by Mr_Merlin: Nov 18 2005, 12:47 PM

The strongest Sorcerers are the ones who don't need to prove how strong they are.

the more universal energy at the magicians disposal

Are you using the word 'universal' to encompass all energy types Mr Merlin or would there be other types of energy that may aid the magickian in his power?

You are truly 'powerful' if you can change the entire world.

Every person has that potential, from Bill Gates, to Christ, to you.

Choose your actions wisely, as the fate of the Earth is in your hands. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

This post has been edited by esoterica: Nov 18 2005, 02:28 PM

Choose your actions wisely, as the fate of the Earth is in your hands.

Hope you aren't looking in my direction esoterica, could I pass on this one?

Really though, we do all make an impact on our own and others lives and it does make sense to think that the most powerful beings ARE the ones that can make changes on every level of being.

Really though, we do all make an impact on our own and others lives and it does make sense to think that the most powerful beings ARE the ones that can make changes on every level of being.

>Hope you aren't looking in my direction esoterica, could I pass on this one?

huh?

anyway, 'our fate is what we make'


I do like that dragon!

Are you using the word 'universal' to encompass all energy types Mr Merlin or would there be other types of energy that may aid the magickian in his power?

By 'universal' energy I mean the available energy of the universal consciousness; the energy which permeates all things; the energy from which all matter and all thoughts are created from. I suppose it can be best described as the thought energy of those who created this existence. I believe it is this energy which we, magicians, tap into to in order to reshape our realities and undertake the feat we call 'magic'. All things, whether it be a car, a tree, a river, a mountain, clouds, books, skin are in essence made of the same universal energy. The difference between each is the vibration of each single thing. A magician thus 'captures' a certain quantity of this energy (in its raw thought form state) within the field of his or her intention/working. The magician then applies his power (knowledge plus understanding = wisdom. Wisdom = power) to shape the energy into his or her outcome.

A powerful magician is thus best defined as the one with the most wisdom; wisdom being the perfect fusion of knowledge and understanding.

I agree with Mediocracy that the strongest magicians are those who don't have to prove how strong they are. The strongest or the most powerful magicians are those who have transcended the human false ego and have no longer the desire or need to prove their workings to anyone. Often the most powerful are the magicians who are totally unassuming and humble and the most unlikely ones to actually be a magician!!!!

Hence the stereotyped appearance in literature and legend of the magician dressed like a beggar ... unkempt etc!!!

Like my namesake Merlin ... though Merlin is a fantasy figure ... a figment of the imagination given thought form status. However there WAS a Myrddin based in North Wales at the time of the legend and he was thought to be linked to an Arthur of Carlisle but that it another story or another thread ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

WOW! I didnt know so many people had this much to say on this topic!! Anyways I guess I mite as well put in my two cents seeing how I am the one who started this topic. My belief is that sorcery is just another way to change are reality, in my opinion the world and universe is really just an expression of what we put are focus on, as I mentioned before I consider my self a chaos sorcerer and I believe that magick is just a tool to change my reality. I also meditate and say affirmations to help me achieve my goals, the only reason I do these things is because it gets results which is also how I judge how powerful I am.

I also agree with all you guys that say that a powerful sorcerer is someone who doesn't brag about it, this forum is really the only outlet I need to talk about my opinions on magick and I am extremely grateful for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/001.gif)

Well thats all I have to say right now, thank you for your insight!

A powerfull sorcerer/mage/witch/whatever? Results results results results results results results results results! Sweet talks and textbook knowledge can only decieve, but final results of their magic will always speak louder than what they brag about.

In my opinion, the top magicians are still in hermitage somewere in the himalayas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

Just like any top athlete, it takes tremendous disciplines, sacrifices and dedications to be skillfull in anything.