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MrGoatee666

DO not use and abuse. As what you do in this world will affect you in the next. If you torment or manipulate these demons or spirits they will haunt you in the next, and you will be able too do nothing about it. DO not be afraid too create them, but just be wise and wary. 

This is what I think they are telling me. They dont like too be used and abused either.

What goes around comes around!

Joseph

Greetings Daev and MrGoatee666,

I agree with your statements about not abusing Entities whether, Angelic, Daemonic, or Discarnate Spirits. Yet for ANgels and Daemons they are effectually used in coorperative tasks, when their position of assistance is respected, I have read in to many Grimoires such as the Goetia Medeival Christian Prayers used as Threats to chain these daemons to the Hellish Torments of the lake of fire, and all in the name of God. I disagree that these are techniques for receiving another beings aid or assistance.

Take for instance an office where a person has a Title or Name and a Rank, where many Daemons have such Titles and Ranks and are over certain Legions as well as have abilities to do specialized actions, it would be of the persons best interest to seek assistance without Threats to their Eternal Nature as some Grimoires give to the Magician, as Safeguards against the demon denying their Will.

After all Daemons or Demons may very well not be the Evil Imps protrayed by Hollywood and such movies as Charmed or Buffy the Vampyre Slayer, but those who have worked to some degree with Entities know that they are Beings of a SPiritual Nature, Neither Good Neither Evil yet their propensities have brought upon their Nature through certain Religions the Stereotyped Nature of being Evil when in Fact , in more ANcient Cultures they were esteemed as Gods of Major or Minor Rank.

Take for Instance Venus, name for being the Planet that announced the Dawn, and the Latin word used for this name is Lucifer which means "Light Bringer" and SOn of the Morning, in ancient Mesopotamia Venus was called Ishtar and also Inanna, Meaning Splendourous Light and also a sign of the Queen of Heaven, for many Ancient Cultures, she was perceived as the Goddess that brought on SPringtime, and Renewal, due to her position in the Spring Sky.

If one took the sign of Venus falling from the sky, which usually signified at the time of Daybreak when the Sun, SOL, outshone Venus it appeared that Venus disappeared, and in the WInter Seasons in the Middle and Far East Venus Disappears from View. And for this understanding of Astronomy the Ancient Queen of Heaven turned then into a Steretyped Denizen of Hell by the Catholic Church, and Lucifer was said to be beheld like Lightning falling from the sky. These were synonymous with times that Venus, Lucifer, Ishtar, Inanna, Ashtaroth were obscured from the view in the Winter Night Sky, and for that fact they were Demonized into Negative roles or characters.

I have heard a comparison of How not to deal with Daemons and SPirits and it went like this: You would not call up someone in whom you need assistance on the phone, and in asking them for help for a problem, pronounce the vilest of curses upon them to constrain their services, Hell no wonder people don't get positive reactions from these beings, I would hang up on them to if they treated me with such disdain.

Joseph

Yes, I agree with that Joseph. If I was a demon I wouldn't want to obey someone who was treating me like crap. I have been told that it is disrepectful to use the circle that solomon uses because it has names of gods that are enemys to the spirits of the goetia.

Joseph

Hi Daev,

Concerning the usage of the Circle in Evocations of Goetic Spirits, I would say that although I agree with the idea we should not threaten or mistreat these Entities or Spirits, one fact is commonly regarded of these Spirits of Goetia as well as with the Necronomicon, the Entities desire to be on the Physical Space Time Plane, they would if they could probably try to Possess the body of the Magician and excert enough Psychic Fragmentation to drive the Magicians Mind in to a state of Paralaysis to gain their Foothold in the Physical Realm.

Here is what my Copy of the Goetia States; The Goetia , The Lesser Key of SOlomon the King:
Pg.70-71-This is the Form of the Magical Circle of King Solomon, The which he made that he might preserve himself therein from the malice of these Evil Spirits.

***My View is that the Hebrew Divine Names are not meantr as Threats to the SPirits they are meant as safegurds to the Magicians Safety, and SOundness of Mind, knowing that the Spirit would not attempt to break into the Magical Circle to accost the Magician.

Just my two cents.

Joseph

Joseph

Greetings Daev, and Members,

I found an interesting Section in Aleister Crowley's Magick in Theory and Practice, Chapter XVII - Of the License to Depart: Here is part of the Section on the Proper Dismissal of an Invoked or Evoked Spirit:

Pg. 139-After a ceremony has reached it's climax, anti-climax must inevitably follow. But if the ceremony has been successful this anti-climax is merely formal. The Whole force of the operation should be absorbed; but there is almost certain to be a Residuum, since no operation is perfect; and (even if it were so) there would be a number of things, sympathetic to the operation, attracted to the Circle. These must be duly dispersed, or they will degenerate and become evil. It is always easy to do this where Invocations are concerned; the mere removal of the strain imposed by the will of the Magician will restore things to their normal aspects, in accordance with the great law of inertia. In a badly-managed Evocation, however, this does not always obtain; the Spirit may refuse to be controled, and may refuse to depart--even after having sworn obedience. In such a case extreme danger may arise.

In the ordinary way, the Magician dismisses the Spirit with these words: "And now I say unto thee, depart in peace unto thine habitations and abodes --and may the blessing of the Highest be upon thee in the name of (Here mention the Divine name suitable to the operation, or a name appropriate to redeem the Spirit); and let there be peace between me and thee; and be thou very ready to come, whenever thou art invoked or called, either by a word, or by a will, or by this mighty Conjuration of Magick Art."

Should he fail to disappear immediately, it is a sign that there is something very wrong. The Magician should immediatley reconstruct the Circle with the utmost care. He should then repeat the dismissal; and if this does not suffice he should then perform the Banishing Ritual suitable to the Nature of the Spirit and, if necessary, add conjurations to the same effect. In these circumstances, or if anything else suspicios shoul occur, he should not be content with the apparent disappearence of the Spirit, who might easily make himself invisible and lie in ambush to do the Magician Mischief when he stepped out of the Circle --or even months afterwards.

It is said, when dealing with these Sp[irits who have given their obedience, but who are mischieveous "A Mans friends are more capable of working him harm than are strangers; and his greatest danger lies in his own habits.

Joseph

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I agree with the statements made here so far. But one must also remember these spirits still don't like to be bothered unless there is something in it for them as well. Especially the more high powered ones. I read somewhere in these forums some good advice that said something to the extent of working with spirits that have the same nature as the summoner does. In that sense both the working relationship between the summoner and spirit is in better standing and the results of the relationship will have a much better outcome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Nightwind: Apr 8 2005, 07:55 AM

This is scary stuff .... and it makes me wonder ... if I am not drawn to it in this life and actually have an aversion to it, seeking other means of magic .... THEN WONDER IF I HAD BAD EXPERIENCES IN A PREVIOUS INCARNATION???

I've been blighted with real bad luck and a number of seriously bad life threatening hauntings .... I wonder if these are spirits/golems exacting their revenge on my soul???

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HOW WOULD ONE FIND OUT ??

It's a line of thinking I've never considered before ....

manson had a really good quote about this but I can't remember it.

Mod Squad - Note: Please try to hold up a discussion rather than one liners to increase number of posts...we'd like to hear your thoughts as well as comments! -Bym

This post has been edited by bym: Jun 17 2005, 11:21 AM