Difference Between Banishing Air Pentagram And Invoking Water Pentagram Options

What is the difference between the
LBRP using the banishing air pentagram and
LBIP using invoking water pentagram?

since the way to draw the banishing air pentagram and
the way to draw the invoking water pentagram is the same,

(I think I know what you mean, but . . .)
Whats the LBIP ?

Assuming you mean LBRP Air and LIRP Water
just you . . . thats the difference.

(well, you and the entire intent of the ritual)

lol should be LIRP instead LBIP

color atributions, names you use in ritual, tools atributed to element...

i may be mistaken but i thought the colours of the pentagram are blue when doing the LBRP?,
or are we suppose to change the colour depending on the element?
and the names spoken for both version of the ritual is the same?
same for the tools

must be mercury last night making some funny aspect on my chart, i thought you were asking about diference between figures that are drawn for specific direction/element. in light of new day i see you are asking about ritual as whole. then as palindroem said... only when it comes to practise, i would use greater version for working with specific element, especially if it is invoking, it brings more focus and greater emphasis on element. as for lesser version, although it is ritual that should put you in tune with energy you are working with, you are one who has to know what is goal and purpose of working.

What is the difference between the
LBRP using the banishing air pentagram and
L[IR]P using invoking water pentagram?

since the way to draw the banishing air pentagram and
the way to draw the invoking water pentagram is the same,

It would help me out to know what source you are going by. What book, text, web page etc etc are you going by? Most often than not the source of ones information usually tells the differences between such descrepencies and if it doesn't it should and its probably not a very well written source. The easiest answer I can think of is that the difference is their function; one is a banishing ritual and the other is an invocation ritual. Banishments send energies -away- from the magician's temple while invocations bring energies *into* the magician him/herself.

The significance of air and water may have to do with the kinds of energies the rituals deal with. The element of air is traditionally considered to have aspects of intelligence, harmony (as in musical qualitites) and creativity as well as the negative qualities of impulsive and indecisiveness, air can be erratic in its behavior. (note there are plenty of other correspondances to both of these elements). Air is often used to gain clairity or focus in thought as well as inspiration. Water is attributed to emotions, empathy, purification and healing. Negative aspects of water can include depression and lack of self control (being overly emotional). Air can be considered masculine (or androgenous depending on who you go by) and water is usually considered feminine. When I think of banishing something with air I think of sending something away. As though I were to place it within a tornado and lunch it far away from me or totally obliterate it. When I think of invoking something with water I think of wanting to feel that something or empathize with it; metaphorically take drink to get a taste to gain a greater understanding of it. Thats just my interpretation, hope it helps.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Mar 5 2007, 04:05 PM

hmm so what really matters is the intent?

The main consern is your intent because thats the drive behind your magick. If its not clear or is untrue then the resulting magick can be, at its worse, catastrophic. It is essential to understand your true intentions to be successful at magick. This is not to say that technique and form are not important, they are. But those can be learned through trial and error - prefferably with the guidance of an instructor. Knowledge is also crittical as well. You wouldn't invoke energies, bring them into yourself, while expecting to banish banish energies - remove them from your presence. So asking questions is a good thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If I might add a few items to the discussion. There are a number of underlying ideas in the drawing of the pentagram which on the surface appear to be confusing. In the larger context there is a well defined logic that allows intent to be reinforced through understanding. Below is an image of the pentagram in question.
(IMG:http://www.sacred-magick.org/uploads/1171108599/gallery_104_25_1048.jpg)

We can see that the motions are the same for the Banishing Air and Invoking Water Pentagram.
The question is Why?

The answer is shown within the relationship of the two elements (Air/Water). They are opposing elements in both direction and nature.
Air is an active element in the East.
Water is a passive element in the West.

Think of how these two elements face each other at opposite ends of the spectrum while you are in the circle. The act of banishing Air creates much the same result as Invoking Water and vice versa.

This provides us with a number of options. If one feels an overabundance of the element of Air we in fact have Two options to balance ourselves. We may:
1. Face East and banish Air. Thus dispersing the abundance.
2. We may face West and Invoke Water. Thus creating an added presence of Water to counteract and Balance the abundance of Air.

Hope this helps to explain the idea.

One ineteresting point to think about is the interplay the symbols of aquarious and scorpio (which are attributed to the left and right upper points of the pent) have with each other.

The symbol of aquarious, the kerubic sign of air, is two waves, a symbol of water.

While the symbol of scorpio, the kerubic sign of water, in its higher form is the eagle which is an 'airy' symbol being a bird.

That is correct. Water and air share similar qualities, their placement upon the pentagram is just evidence of this.

If I might add a few items to the discussion. There are a number of underlying ideas in the drawing of the pentagram which on the surface appear to be confusing. In the larger context there is a well defined logic that allows intent to be reinforced through understanding. Below is an image of the pentagram in question.
(IMG:http://www.sacred-magick.org/uploads/1171108599/gallery_104_25_1048.jpg)

We can see that the motions are the same for the Banishing Air and Invoking Water Pentagram.
The question is Why?

The answer is shown within the relationship of the two elements (Air/Water). They are opposing elements in both direction and nature.
Air is an active element in the East.
Water is a passive element in the West.

Think of how these two elements face each other at opposite ends of the spectrum while you are in the circle. The act of banishing Air creates much the same result as Invoking Water and vice versa.

This provides us with a number of options. If one feels an overabundance of the element of Air we in fact have Two options to balance ourselves. We may:
1. Face East and banish Air. Thus dispersing the abundance.
2. We may face West and Invoke Water. Thus creating an added presence of Water to counteract and Balance the abundance of Air.

Hope this helps to explain the idea.

Thanks for clarifying that so well ; that very question came to my attention last night, that ....I'm sure is a big point of confusion.
.Lightning