Astral Travel, Am I doing this right? Options

93
Sorry to start like this, but I've got a few questions that keep bothering me. I'm not sure how to search this forum for topics, as to avoid repetitive questions and matters like that, so if there's a system I would appreciate if someone could tell me about it, since I'm not very good with technological stuff.

So... down to business, on astral traveling. I think I have it under control, kinda, I form my body of light, the evocation of the body, the sensations of the body, but sometimes I have some problems visualizing things, for instance my room (something I know), that could be because I don't have much of a visual imagination, how can this be perfected?, any thoughts on this?

Also on the method, I try to evoke what it feels like, what my body feels like, piece by piece and then as a whole, then project it outside of me. I do this in my room, and once projected I touch the walls and furniture, trying to evoke what it feels, the texture of things, this is my method, are there other methods?, or is there a topic exclusive to that?, how do you do it?

Also, everytime I'm on the astral plane I like to go to my temple, my own little world (islands suspended in space, since I like to use thelemic symbolism, space-Nuit and so on). I try to evoke, as clearly as possible the sensations of walking on grass, of touching trees and so on. I have a small temple with a huge sculputure of Horus to whom I pray and offer sacrifices, do a little ritual there and all. Is that the astral realm or am I wasting my time, or am I doing something completely different, what do you think?

I do this practice in two ways, in the middle of a ceremony (I usually make them up, what it feels like in my temple, usually using tarot cards as a map of where I am or where I would like to be in the tree of life, the coordinates of the tree of life, lots of candles and my beloved Horus sculpture... the same I see in the astral plane, only it's bigger there); and also before I go to sleep, I like sleeping there (although I don't remember my dreams most of the times).

Here's the interesting part. At first it was sort of a guided meditation, I guided myself, I made up the islands in the stars, the geography as it were. Although not completely, before I go to sleep I go to other places, or better yet I discover different places on those islands, like a castle with a beacon on top of it, or a waterfall, all kinds of things, although somewhat coherent with the general "world" I generated.

But when I do it in the middle of a ceremony, where I place myself on another mood or mindset, sometimes it's almost as if I wasn't guiding the events, like "now I want to go the waterfall and splash for a while, or "now I feel like walking on the woods and see ancient ruins" (sometimes I do that on my nocturnal journeys, and eventually I lose consciousness and fall to sleep).

The last two times it happened, I saw things, a galeria of huge sculptures that are reminescent of Babalon on top of a lion or beast, sometimes they come to life (on my tarot geography I was leaning towards the ATU of Lust, that might explain it). I try and go with the flow, try and follow whatever inspiration is guiding me. Also, in other to go to my sacred place, I usually just float to the stars, last time I turned around and saw myself in my Asana, I broke my ribs, like opening a door, and stepped inside, right into this sacred land I've been building. That was a new thing to me, never ocurred to me.

I enjoyed the whole thing, even what might have been violent, like one I was sort of crucified and Horus started atacking me with his beak, it wasn't painful, probably just my imagination going wild. Also when I returned and drew blood from my self, my meditating self, and spilled the blood on Babalon's cup. I know it sounds kind of sick but that is the iconography that I prefer, the thelemic images that I'm used to.

So my other question would be, am I doing this right?, is this astral projection?, it has been gratifying and has helped me a lot, performing ceremonies and rituals in my astral temple (if it is astral, I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking) works better than with my physical temple. But at the same time I'm afraid I'm doing something wrong and sort of wasting my time (not a complete waste, at least I've learned).

Well, enough boring you, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Keep in mind I'm relatively new at this and that's why I'm so insecure.

Well, thanks for your time, and for the opportunity of being here.
93 93/93

Ok, fist I want to say, I moved this topic because it fits better here, and I hope there will be more answers here. However Choaties can pretty much latch on to any topic.

From my perspective you have done what I think of as astral travel…I prefer to call it pathworking, but that gets confused with tree of life pathworking. Also astral projection gets confusing when some think it is only when projecting to the material plane (where we reside in our normal waking state). Other think it only near material or such.

Anyway, what you described is similar to a normal event for me. How I get into it is similar, but I have found going more along the lines of classic eastern meditation gets me there easier (more consistently).

When I was doing this more regularly however, simply going to “a place of power” was enough. I would get myself to a state where I was relaxed and detach…like beginning a meditation.

Then materialize my place of power.

My first place of power was described during a guided meditation given by a former mentor of types. I have since changed my place of power 3 times. Each reflecting my concepts as major changes have shifted things for me.

The astral plane is fun. There is a lot to do and learn there. However there are dangers.

Do not get addicted. Remember there is biofeedback. If you get injured, those injuries manifest in illness, mood, phantom pain and soreness and in extreme cases you may see marks or bruises.

There are many ways of seeing and dealing with the astral, I tried to express this in this poll.


What I described was a mix of my experiences, none of my most extreme or my most boring…go out and watch a moon rise and just bask in it.

My description of the feelings of others, this has been hard won over the years. In total I have only done it with perhaps 20 people who had about as much experience as myself. I am not sure I like those concepts of myself. I don’t like being thought of as that cold, and only two of those people are still as friendly with me after the experience as they where before.

I don’t think of it as cold as much as driven to a goal…but I also know it is cold. This is the problem with Astral Travel…you are not exactly you. At least for me.

It seems you are on a good track, do not do it more then two days in a row until you really get into practice and stay in it. or it may bleed into your dreams and you won’t have as much control there as if you engage it when awake.

93
Sorry about the mess and thanks for moving my post to it's proper place. I really appreciate the help because no matter how much I read the philosophy and the theories, once you experience it, once you do it, it's completely different. Like driving a car, reading the manual will tell you what is a car, what is driving, the rules and technics, but once you're behind the wheell it's another thing altogether.

What you say makes perfect sense, "relaxed and detach", I wasn't sure what worked exactly, meaning which parts of my excercise worked and in what degree did those steps contribute to finally being relaxed and detached. Although there is also some tension, I keep trying to evoke how things feel like, the grass against my foot, the wind against my hair, etc., etc., as detailed as possible... Is this smart?, is it unnecessary? Perhaps tension is not the word, it's concentration, a very potent concentration that is hard to mantain.

The place of power... That's something I read on this forum, on another thread on a similar matter. It makes sense, I imagine the place of power tells you a lot about yourself, about what you think or believe, in my case I made it up semi-consciounsly (god! my english is awful, I'm sorry for the grammatical horrors of my posts), it kind of came to me because that's exactly where "I go" when I'm relaxing, the same general theme.

If this is true I would believe that it's also true for the events, some of them I totally wanted them, like "I feel like running around the trees", or "I feel like it would be nice to splash in the water", but some appeared to manifest from a more profound place, somekind of subconcious manifestation perhaps?

If that's the case, what would you suggest, letting them appear? or should I censor them?, should I force my subconscious mind to explore a particular idea or thought or should it be completely free?

Thanks for the heads-up on the bio-feedback. Instinctively I stopped performing more rituals since saturday's workings, I didn't feel like it (funny how the mind tries to tell you things isn't it?), I imagine this astral operations drain a lot of power, doesn't it? I had a lot of fuel to burn, but then came the feeling of being careful not to end up with an empty tank.

Your poll helped me a lot, reading the feedback really ilustrates to me how unique the astral operations are. In your opinion though, I'd like to know, when astrally projecting one's self, should it be the whole body, like a reproduction of the physical body, is it better to simply project like a "general sense of myself"? Because I read a response that mentioned that he/she liked, instead of the full body, projecting just some senses, I didn't reply at the time (I should have, I guess I'm just shy in any new environment, virtual, astral or physical).

There is something, however, that I don't understand, what do you mean when you say:

My description of the feelings of others, this has been hard won over the years. In total I have only done it with perhaps 20 people who had about as much experience as myself. I am not sure I like those concepts of myself.

You've met someone else in the astral plane? I don't understand.

Also, on a more general note, I've read of people who meet astral "things", people, angels or beings, that interact with them, is this possible? Isn't this a bit dangerous?
After all, and this is just me, are the events in the astral plane wholly a matter of one's mind? I don't know, I think, or guess, that talking to someone on such a plane would mean there is something inside of me that I'm not aware, and worst, that I don't understand. But more than this, because subconscious pulsions can't be totally controled, the idea of such a pulsion, or energy or impulse, unkown to me that has evolved enough to become able to sort of have it's own mind, simply sounds un-healthy or at least extremely dangerous to one's own mental stability.

Could any one correct me on this?, Am I interpreting this the wrong way?

Anyway, thanks for your time and your response, and sorry for all the questions, I guess I have more questions than answers on this matter.
93 93/93

First, it was not too badly placed, I just thought it was more appropriate here, and I hoped there would be more answers to what I think are good questions for discussion.

Second your English is fine, not perfect but better then many people who use it naturally, including myself often. I recommend continued use and study, but you got your thoughts across and that is one of the major goals of language.

I “LOVE” using the driving a car comparison when describing all things mythical. It has many of the same qualities. The only difference is the fact that there is no law enforcement in magick, and you don’t get the fast car or huge truck through other means then yourself, or what you are born with.

But it fits very well in describing the changes from reading and doing. It also describes the dangers. Often as long as you are aware of things, you are fine. If you are not paying attention…you might be in trouble. On a very remote occasion, someone else’s carelessness or perhaps deliberately can cause you harm.

You use the word evoke a lot. In magickal discussions it has certain connections to certain practices. I am not sure your meaning, but I guess you mean it as “to bring forth something into reality”. While this is correct use of the word, it is not the normal use in the context of this forum. Here it is normally used when speaking of entities of some sort or another.

Having a bit of tension is normal, it can be from nervousness, anticipation, not sure you are doing it right, or even frustration or anger. But at it’s best when you gain more practice and stay in practice, this goes away, much like driving a car.

Now I am going to say some things, what you did was fine, but a little forced, you need to relax a bit more, allow whatever comes to come, whatever does not does not. (I know it is often not so simple, but that is the best place to be.)

My recommendations:
Do work on visualization, but not while doing astral travel, practice it before, or at other times. When I say visualization, I mean all the sensations, including emotions.

In astral travel start with visualization and then let whatever comes to come. If something is not going as you wish, or you have a plan, then gently nudge your consciousness in that direction. Don’t force the concept of grass, of wind, of the smell of the air…you might be missing some great experiences that come naturally by forcing what you expect on the scene.

If a thought comes that you do not want “what time is it, oh no I need to go to sleep soon…crap I don’t want to think about that” instead of being mad, simply thank your mind or thought machine for the thought and move on back to the traveling.

That said, another very powerful thing for me is sensation memory. About 30% of the time if I can remember how something felt (probably more often if I can remember it better). I can place myself in almost the exact same state without as much work. If I have not been doing it often…a few months have passed, it takes a lot of work for me to be relaxed and detached enough to go forward.



As to where it is we go when we astral travel, is it something we “dream up”?
I can answer this in many ways and there are many opinions, I have a few just myself. However, based on my experience, I think we go to a collective place, where our mind describes it based on our own thoughts and our own experiences, however it is different for every person, because of our minds are the filter in how we experience it.

For example, take the next line:

The outside walls where strong and stretched into the sky.



Now your mind made a very quick visualization of that. You saw these walls.




What color are the walls? What material are they made of? What is the ground like in front of them? What does the sky that they stretch into look like? How tall are they? How wide? And on and on and on. All that was given to you by a filter of your life experiences. Now when traveling the astral, we are dealing with very subtle things. Things that would normally not get noticed at all, our filters fill in the gaps. As you move on in practice you will try and bring less and less of your own impressions, but you will always fill in the gaps. Your coloring in of the gaps will be different then mine.

So in describing the same event in the astral, you will give a totally different impression then I would, and both would be correct. There are things and events that would not be so different, I will get to those in a bit.

However, as you practice, you will be ok with the shifting nature of things, you will allow your first impressions to be wrong and to reform something, and then for that thing to change again as you learn more about it.

Energy is an odd thing when doing this. You may feel great before, and totally full of life and energy after…ready to party into the morning, but the next day and the week after you are drained. I am not clear on why, but remember to eat well.

Before doing this I recommend light meals with fruits and vegetables, after you are done, heavy foods are good, they help you come back down to earth. If you are going to do this for a few days, keep it light, but get protein from nuts and dried fruits.

As far as keeping your body, or becoming something else, everyone does this as they see fit. I have always been comfortable in my own skin, I am not great looking but symmetrical. I am not very fit at the moment, but I can move furniture and do exercise well enough. I feel I can defend myself well enough to make someone remember me for a few days no matter their size…even though I might remember them for the rest of my life.

So I usually travel as myself, it is not at all necessary and may point to vanity, lack of imagination or fear of the unknown…I am not sure I care to explore that, but I might. I have at times not been myself, those times are odd, and not forced in any way by me, they just happen.

Your misunderstanding of the following:

My description of the feelings of others, this has been hard won over the years. In total I have only done it with perhaps 20 people who had about as much experience as myself. I am not sure I like those concepts of myself.

This was poorly worded and referring to my post in the poll.
I have been involved in group travel or “group guided meditation” this is always something I do with some apprehension, because if I totally get into the meditation, my relationship with the people I do it with is changed forever. Usually in ways I had no conscious cause in.

In regular life, in the last 10 years or so, I try my best to put things in context, that is, explaining my reason for saying something. I do this so people know I am not just trying to hurt their feelings. Before I was much more direct, and if time does not allow me to put things in context, I say it much more delicately.

When I am in the astral plane I am very direct, if I am exploring I am exploring. If I am looking for something, I am looking for something. I do not get into idle conversations, I often do not get into conversations. In group meditation, when we are in it all as a group, this gets noted by the more sensitive ones. In some moments it just gets noticed by everyone. If they recognize it to be me, their filters create me as something most people are not comfortable with.

Of the people whose opinion I value in this topic, either it is cold or predatory. For those that knew me very well before, it was not a total shock, but it was a sudden confirmation. When I talk tough about my past, I am backing it up with resolve, and a way of being that I have not completely let go of being even if I do my best to keep in mind other people.

For the people who do not know me well, or thought of me as just another nice, pleasant person, who would not hurt a soul, they saw the opposite in such a strong fashion. I am not a nice pleasant person who would not hurt a soul or the opposite, but their filters, the only possible images from their life experience, they put on me had them jump there.

It is something very present for me right now, as I am trying to repair a relationship with someone, who is still a bit scared of that image she has of me.

So it is others I am in a group meditation/astral voyage with, that I was referring to, not people/things I met on my travels.

Meeting astral entities:
I have come to the conclusion recently, that all the “demons” of importance, I have met in my travels where more likely angels in the classic sense. They each taught me something good for myself and for those around me. So far that exchange has been mostly one sided, and there has been no agreement otherwise. Also the angels/guides I have come across, have been the same, just more pleasant to be around. What is to say they where not the same thing, just giving a slightly different essence to teach me something?

Then again, I have crossed paths and have done combat with some pretty terrible things, but it has always been direct, no false sense of security and attack when my guard is down. It has been me walking into it knowing I might have to fight.

What is it all?

Somewhere I know I posted the three possibilities, I will summarize here for sake of completeness.

1. All in your head.
2. The collective unconscious of humanity and possibly beyond.
3. A totally different place or universe.

I can argue that you can not tell the difference, so it does not matter what it is. The only exception is that I have had shared experiences. That leads me to think it is 2 or 3…but I might be wrong and it is all 1.

In the end I am not sure it matters too much, you just have to stay aware of treating your fellow man/woman with respect. That probably includes not upsetting people who don’t have an experience that allows them to discuss or understand these types of topics.

You mention subconscious pollution in your post, you mention it as if it is a bad thing. It is not a standard term in English, but I think I understand your meaning.

Classic eastern tradition meditation techniques do a lot, but they do not allow you to see your shadow self. Western hermetic magick if it is “all in your head” allows you to do this in a much healthier fashion then acting it out by yelling and screaming at people, or much more destructive behavior that usually accompanies not exploring your shadow subconscious.

Western psychoanalysis is probably the best technique for exploring this, however it is expensive, in most cases. I am currently looking into doing it for about a year, but I am not sure how or what approach to take and the cost. Someone who “does not need it” and is not stressed or feeling depressed or any of that makes it just an expensive field trip, I would rather go on an extended vacation/adventure for the price, but I still want to do it.

I hope this helps, and I hope others answer, because I am wrong.

Your questions all seemed well thought out, and I enjoyed exploring them a bit. Don’t be afraid to ask and no need to apologize, worst I would do is not answer or insult you…

Insults are fun, but they do not add much to the conversation, and are nothing one should care much about. As for not answering, I may be bored with the topic, or have nothing new that I feel is constructive, or hope for someone else’s opinion to the same questions to get a broader vision.

In the end I am some freak on the other end of a cable typing into buttons, don’t put too much value in my reaction one way or another, just see it, look at it, try it on for a few seconds, see how it fits. If you like it keep it for yourself if not, discard it. Or you can keep it for later as you might change and it fits better at that point. But never let fear of the reaction of people you do not care about stop you from seeking knowledge.

Lastly, you are very welcome, and I have one question for you?

What is the significance of:
93 at the beginning of the post.
And 93 93/93 at the end. If it is something better left unsaid…that is answer enough, but I am at least interested.