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 One Way, But What About The Other?, Vagrant Dreamer! Head's up!
Xenomancer
post Sep 20 2009, 03:55 PM
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Referencing your post, Vagrant, here, and a specific section:

QUOTE
The body is affected later after the effect filters across the bridge of the psychic body, causing the endocrine system to act up, creating emotional imbalances in the physical body (emotion is wholly physical and is the physical interpretation of psychic and, by extension, spiritual states of resonance), and in the extreme, even inducing significant brain imbalances that could lead to neurosis and psychosis. The experience of the body is then recorded and interpreted by the psychic body, feeds back to the spiritual body, etc., and it becomes a cycle.


Vagrant... I have a really important question regarding this. So the spirit can affect the body in such a fashion...

But, can a mortal intercede by force of willpower to break the cycle? In particular, by choosing to take part in activities conducive of good astral health?

Here are some examples I have in mind. Please tell me if my hunches are valid:

EX1: Sudden loss of body shape due to Asynchronous Astral Body, where the inspiration and motivation to eat healthy and in controlled portions simply disappear.
EX1-Extrapolation: Conjuring the will force to go and work out to work it off and eat healthy will bring back synchronicity.

EX2: Sudden disinterest in social activities due to boredom and melancholy, brought on by AAB phoenomenon.
EX2-Extrapolation: Venturing out and making an effort to build social networks repairs the damage done to one's interest in social activities.

Are my inferences correct? Perhaps fundamentally, if at all? If not, please let me know as to the details that need to be known.

I am putting this up on the public board rather than private, because I feel that should some people with similar feelings or conclusions ever visit, they may need to see this post, as well.


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-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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Vagrant Dreamer
post Sep 21 2009, 08:45 AM
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Okay, I'm probably walking on some tenuous ground here, so as always anyone reading take everything as theory and don't make assumptions about yourself or your condition.

The inferences you make are backwards from the situation referenced in the post before. This case assumes that the Asynchronous element is actually the physical - and that therefore making changes to the physical activity will as a result reconstitute the sychronicity between the Astral Body and the rest of the Mind Body Spirit (MBS) Complex. That would not be the case if we assume that the origin lies with the Astral Body.

There are different reasons that the Astral Body in particular might become asynchronous with the MBS complex, each one has a different brand of solution. There is the case that was mentioned before in the root post. In that case the solution can be to go back to the place where the gift was exchanged, or where food was eaten, and give it back - physical regurgitation often follows this particular solution compulsively, and we see this demonstrated in cases such as 'exorcisms' (not just classical demon vs. priest) where the possessed will frequently vomit profusely just before the successful completion of the ritual. Another solution is to seek the aforementioned higher initiation by a spiritual adept or guide, who can reconstitute your over synchronicity by allowing inititation into one of those higher frequencies.

However, other causes that can lead to AAB as you have termed it, can be spiritual trauma, after which the Mind and Body suppress the Astral body forcibly in order to allow ones personal reality to reflect one in which such a trauma does not 'exist', and therefore never happened. Another cause can be the execution of the astral body - in this case the astral body itself is for all intents and purposes dead! What remains behind is a 'thin' sort of husk of an astral body which will over a great period of time reconstitute itself. This can happen forcibly, if someone with the knowledge of how to do such a thing were to have it out for you. It can be the result of spiritual warfare as well, a holy man performing an excorcism risks the life of his astral body when he does so. There are of course other forms of spiritual warfare.

A more common cause lies in the connections we have to our objects, places and people of power. Each of us has these figures and locales, and they are not often purposefully chosen at first. Our first object of power is often a 'blanky' or favorite toy, our first people of power are our parents, usually, and our first place of power is often our bedroom (this is speaking in terms of western, specifically american, culture, but the principle itself is universal to all cultures). Being connected (attached may be a better term) to these people and things nourishes us spiritually under the best conditions, but can become a poison if at some point they themselves go sour, as it were. If we are violated in a place of power, or something happens which alters its frequency significantly, then we can ourselves be affected through our sympathetic connection to it. Likewise when people of power for us undergo trauma or change significantly (usually for the worse in this case) we can change in the same way as with a place of power. The violation by a person of power, in a place of power, perhaps by an object of power, would be an example of spiritual trauma aforementioned.

Over time we naturally withdraw our connections from these places, but as we grow older we need to become more conscious of where we make those connections and wether or not we do - that we must have connections is a fact, but to what we have them is negotiable, and it does not have to be something in the physical world, although this is where Initiation comes in usually, either natural or instigated.

The solution in each of these cases is different, and even in multiple examples of the same case the solutions may vary somewhat. However, in general, if the case is Spiritual Trauma the solution is some variety of spiritual healing, usually in the form of a cathartic deeply spiritual experience - a pilgramage to a holy place (i.e. place of power) is an example. A conscious alteration of one's lifestyle to be more spiritual in nature is another. Both of these have in common that they counteract the unconscious desire to suppress the 'spiritual' element of one's being by consciously engaging in the spiritual element of life anyway. This is a manifold manifestation of the Desire for Synchronicity with the Astral body, and the Spirit as a whole.

In the case of an astral body that has been, for a less than apt term, 'killed', the only immediate option is ressurection. Usually this calls for a journey to the 'underworld' to retrieve one's astral body, although there are adepts who can call it back from this side. There are spirits who will do the same, but this gets into matters of faith and prayer usually, as the conduit by which theurgy would take place is somewhat crippled without it's astral body component. There are other rituals and ordeals, but they are by and large variations on a theme. The least 'magical' solution would be a pilgramage to the place of birth - the literal spot where we passed into this world from the gateway of our Mother's womb, which is where, for that individual, the veil between this world and the other is the thinnest.

In the case of the curruption of people, objects, and places of power, we must withdraw our connection to those places completely, and over time as with the original case, synchronicity returns on its own. There are various methods in this case but most are essentially psychological in nature.

With the average individual, usually only one of these is the case, and usually it has to do with places and people of power. Usually we give up objects of power naturally over time, but people and places we often maintain for years, even decades, if not our entire lives. However the case can be more complex as well - it does not have to be just one thing, it can be several, and for Magicians it often is.

In those inferences above:
QUOTE
EX1: Sudden loss of body shape due to Asynchronous Astral Body, where the inspiration and motivation to eat healthy and in controlled portions simply disappear.
EX1-Extrapolation: Conjuring the will force to go and work out to work it off and eat healthy will bring back synchronicity.

EX2: Sudden disinterest in social activities due to boredom and melancholy, brought on by AAB phoenomenon.
EX2-Extrapolation: Venturing out and making an effort to build social networks repairs the damage done to one's interest in social activities.


This is oversimplifying in a typical western fashion - treat the symptom. In the first case, you actually may simply be unable to lost the weight, or will rapidly gain it back until the root of the problem is found. If the cause is bodily - that is, because you eat unhealthy foods, engage in unhealthy activities, and thus it is the physical that is really out of synch with the astral (and even the psychic), then these solutions will work. The same with the second case. You simply won't find socializing entertaining, and it may even cause anxiety depending on the situation.

The ultimate goal is to work as a unified whole in Mind, Body, and Spirit, driving the synchronicity of the 'three' so closely that they more completely reflect the unified whole that they ultimately are. It is much like Yin and Yang - different operations of the same Tao. However, although we can adopt that attitude of oneness before we actually get there, practically speaking until then we have to operate on each level for each level. If the problem is in the astral body, affecting physical change is not the answer. Just as in the case of psychological problems, psychological change must be affected, and of course the same with physical issues. This is why we must look at where we are, what is wrong, and take into account almost the entirety of our lifestyle in order to discover where the source of the imbalance is, and take countermeasures appropriately, and on the appropriate level, to correct it. The imbalance can have one single root, or it can have more than one - the problem can be complex and involve different parts of one, or one part of all, or any combination.

We can suss these problems out ourself by trying to ask the right questions, but frankly a qualified individual really needs to make a complete interview, covering attitudes, past history, diet, physical activity, proclivities, preferences, daily routine and rhythm, significant people and places and their possible influence. Our life, our existence, and our MBS, are just extensions of a total overall system which is the same but to a greater and more complex degree.

I know that this all possibly only confuses the issue more, but hopefully it represents some kind of clarification and at least generates more focused questions.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Sep 21 2009, 08:46 AM


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Xenomancer
post Sep 21 2009, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE
hopefully it represents some kind of clarification and at least generates more focused questions.


That last line summarizes the effect well. Without focus, one cannot bring their desires into the world, therefore cannot manifest them properly. You can't fix a proverbial 'it' without knowing what 'it' is!

But, the simple fact that the questions generated from the premises you postulate bring about a more real effect in terms of focus, and therefore have helped greatly.

Thank you so much, Vagrant.


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¡HA HA! ¡ESTOY USANDO EL INTERNET!
-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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