Reincarnation of nonhumans into humans&vice-versa, Transmigration of soul to another specie Options

Hindu & Buddhist texts are replete with writings where giant trees, reptiles, animals and birds have re-incarnated as humans and vice-versa depending upon karma and also non-humans have re-incarnated among themselves from one spcies to another species.

This is a statement rather than a question. Durki, would you like to come back to this and add some more so that there is something to kick-start a discussion. - mediocracy

This post has been edited by mediocracy: Jun 18 2005, 12:45 AM

As per the law of 'as you sow, so you reap', suppose you kill a deer wantonly then it is likely that you may be born as a deer in your next birth to settle the karmic accounts. Another point is attachment and your thoghts just before your death. In India there is a story of king Bharata who renounced kingdom after a fruitful family life and became a monk. He used to live in a hermitage beside a river under a tree. He had tamed a deer and was very fond of & attached to it. His last thoughts immediately before his death were those of his pet. In next birth, he became a deer. After the deer birth, he was born in priestly Brahmin caste and became a sage who generally obseved silence.

What is the point?
These stories can be found in indian texts and their theories are known by most members.
Why are you posting this tread, do you want to talk about the subject, do you have any questions?

My aim in posting this thread was to share with others my personal experience in this subject. I was led to see photograph of my last birth wherein I was a non-human because of the harm that I had inflicted on that particular species one birth earlier. Lesson learnt is that we should be compassionate towards all forms of life.

I agree that we should be compassionate, but for other reasons.

why should we be compassionate?
Because when one kills or harms a certain animal, then one becomes that animal. Should we then kill all animals, to make sure the killers get their reward??

I don't see the logic in that theory, i don't agree.
Perhaps you can give a more decent explanation regarding your experience and views.

Compassion out of fear of retribution is not a compassion. As a person evolves, he/she starts identifying himself/herself with totality of creation. Out of that identification springs forth genuine compassion from innermost layers or sheaths of your being. Motive of such a person in doing good deeds to other beings is not to reap any rewards ( though unknowingly he/she reaps huge rewards ) but to see welfare, good, upliftment and happiness of others.

That i agree to somewhat.
It is well said. But identification in this way is far to limited for my tastes.

I was led to see photograph of my last birth wherein I was a non-human because of the harm that I had inflicted on that particular species one birth earlier. Lesson learned is that we should be compassionate toward all forms of life.

When I read that I clearly understand that you were once a man that tortured animals.
Then as a result (or punishment) you reincarnated into one of those animals.
and then you became a man again, and got to see images of your previous incarnations.

You learned from that the lesson to be compassionate.

A direct cause and effect is what i see.
you hurt animals, you get "punished", you learn your lesson...

So it seems that animals are the same as humans, and humans can become animals and animals humans. And that is why we should treat them with respect.
Because it is only natural to treat humans with respect????

What nonsense, I just don't believe that!
I have no need to identify animals with humans in order to respect them.
I respect all that lives, but not for such foolish fairy tales.


Watch out, the ant you step on might be your dead father reborn, ... pathetic...

This post has been edited by A_Smoking_Fox: Jun 22 2005, 08:20 AM

I too have found the reincarnation thing a bit hard to understand . I have sprayed a lot of insect repellent , does that mean something to me .... no , not to mention the simple fact that I love to eat red meat , am I contributing to the slaughter of farm animals ? will I be reincarnated as one ? I don't think so ..... however their are people that believe this ..... which does create an element of doubt .

One interesting thing I feel like sharing is that , during a hypnotherapy session , I saw my self as a Roman soldier with full body armour and a red cape . Perhaps In a past life I brought destruction with me , an as a result I am paying off that Karmic debt in this one , that I can deal with . To get to the point , I cant picture a next life , chocking on insect repellant.

I'd just like to make an formal apology and seek forgiveness for any lifeform I may have extinguished . Come to think of it , If I was an ant in suburbia I'd be pretty agro about the sky crushing me .

I've never been one to believe that a soul can be reincarnated as another lifeform such as a rabbit or a hamster, even a blade of grass. My beliefs lie in the idea that our souls are "genetically" human souls, no matter what the cause. In all my experiences that have included past life regression, none have ever pulled up anything other than a human.

To speak from a Karmic point of view, it would make some sense, yes. But then another arguement comes to mind as such; animals do not think on the same level as we do, so how can we as humans in one lifetime, learn from an experience as an animal in another lifetime? I am NOT saying that animals are below us, I am saying that human experience is human experience. If we had abused animals in another lifetime, then Karma will give us abuse from another cause in our next trial, such as an abusive boyfriend or parent. Even a boss.

An incarnation as a human gives us more choices to work through our Karma. I live with a Cat and she is a Zen master, so there is something to be said for incarnations in anaimal form. I am not convinced that the soul really exists, and we just pass through a number of incarnations until we achieve whatever it is we need to achieve...none of us can say with certainty it works in 'x' or 'y' way so all our theories are just that.

Perhaps reincarnation is true. Perhaps not.
What difference does it really make???

Besides, those theories lack any evidence, and do not make sense:
Shouldn't we kill all animals, so that they can be reborn into humans again...
By eating meat we are helping cows into a more "humane" existence.

Perhaps it is true, and we just don't understand it correctly. but is there anything to gain from understanding the theory behind reincarnation. Do you become wiser and more enlightened, or is it just some mental baggage.

Even worse, what reincarnation does to people:

You get kids screaming (and even many adults that act like kids):
"look at me, i was Jesus in a past life, muhahahaaa, bow before me, i own you"
Then i think:
"... sigh ... but now you are just a pathetic child, so what good does it do you? Clearly you are not like Jesus now ... sigh ..."

you may substitute Jesus for Crowley, Buddha, Mozes, napoleon, some old king you might have heard of, etc.... It is all the same.

I tend to not care about reincarnation.
Thinking about reincarnation really is pointless, i don't care whether i was Jesus, the late pope, or even god himself in some far away former life.
I have this life, and i seek enlightenment in this life!
What i do not seek is entertainment trough fantastic reincarnation stories.
These stories do not teach anything of value, and only help to bloat the ego beyond control.

I may be a bit harsh in this tread, but that was just to get the ball rolling, i hope i did not offend anyone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

Why do those kids bother you so much? You very well know their full of crap, and so do they. Let them learn on their own, it's not your problem.

Learning about your past lives is important for some. It DOES matter. It helps explain parts of who you are. For example, I have a deep aversion to hard drugs (cocaine, heroine, etc), one that's deep enough to be almost considered a problem. There are very obvious reasons why I don't like them (because their bad), but one day when I had a regression done, I found out my most very recent past life, a boy in the 60's-70's. I died as a teenager from a drug overdose. That also explains my obsession for that era, and the want to go back to that time.

For some, reincarnation is just not a theory, it's a solid fact. I believe very much in reincarnation, because I have seen it first hand, and understand how it effects our current lives. I also understand that some people are confused by it and may embelish, but I will not get upset over them, because they are the ones that have to live with it, not me.

Evolution is an aeonic process. If you are able to hypno-regress up to 100 births, then only you will come across all sorts of births in all forms of life. Normally a soul evolves from vegetable kingdom to animal kingdom ( including reptiles & birds ) and then finally to homo sapiens or humans. Generally ascent to higher form of life is gradual & steady. Grass in collective form becomes insect, next reptile, then animal / bird & lastly human. Some times you lapse into lower form due to accidental karma caused by quirk of fate. There is a time-gap between two successive incarnations when the soul remains in astral spheres in discarnate or disembodied form.
Allow me to be honest and put the record straight. Life & fate conspired and destiny played a cruel joke with me so much so that I had to become and was a snake for about 7 years in my immediate last birth.

I'm sorry, but I cannot believe that at all. The soul is a pure thing, and has been pure from the very beginning, a constant. This is what I feel is correct for me, this is what feels to me as the truth.

Does the Soul really exist?
What exactly can we point to and say 'this is the Soul'?
And if the Soul does not exist, what exactly is it that passes from one incarnation to the next?

I have this thing, where sometimes I just don't question it's existence. I feel within my core that the soul does exist, and that's peachy. Someday it might be "scientifically proven", just like other things people thought didn't exist, did.

Sometimes you just have to have faith.

I really don't see any useful lessons learned from your story DollHouseKitty .

you say that all your life you had an aversion to drugs.
Which is fine by me, everybody has his own beliefs.
And then you say you found out at a later stadium that you were once addicted in a past life.

So in fact, as i stated, it did not matter at all, you had an aversion to drugs and you still have.
Nothing changed, no new insights, nothing.
You are still the same old DollHouseKitty you always were.

Sorry, at least now you are a little entertained by finding out you were once a drug addict.

You have just found some information that doesn't change anything and doesn't provide profound new insights.
Spiritually it showed you no progress at all.
It may have been fun but that is all it is. To me magick is about spiritual progress and reincarnation theories or facts do not provide any spiritual progress.

Personally i think you proved my point wonderfully.
That reincarnation are just theories for entertainment, like TV or music.
There's nothing wrong with that, if that amuses you, but it may be wise to at least know that it does not further you spiritually.


This is only my highly opinionated opinion, you probably disagree...

Excuse me? Because I didn't bare all from that one life, DOES NOT mean that I didn't learn or grow from it. As far I am concerned, I am not under the impression that because you explain something to someone through your own life, that you have to give them every single little detail. Pardon me for wanting at least some privacy.

I don't know if this idea when over your head or your chose to ignore it, but I gave a friggen example, yes, an EXAMPLE. It's one of those things that you use to help explain something that you feel is possible complicated? Understand?

Pardon everyone for my slight hostility here, I feel my post has been singled out for the sheer purpose of calling it down, which calls me down. I don't take lightly to that, especially when there was absolutely no reason to be so judgemental about it. And I would appreciate it if you retracted your assumption I was a drug addict in a past life, that this little bit of information was for my entertainment, and that I did not grow spiritually or learn anything from this. Just because for some people, the little things in life count too, does not mean that they should be condemned for being pointless. Thats rude, arrogant, and weak.

Before you go off and thinking ill of a situation that is not told in full depth, as questions before jumping to such ridiculous conclusions.

I too could not tolerate drugs , even cigarettes for that matter . If I had a head ache I would refuse to take any medication for It . This continued 'till I was almost twenty , then I let my guard down , anf have suffered ever since . I dont need to say anymore on this matter as , I would just be repeating what Doll house KItty has already pointed out . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Why do those kids bother you so much? You very well know their full of crap, and so do they. Let them learn on their own, it's not your problem.

DollHouseKitty, you might want to take your own advice? I see a slight inconsistency in your own posts and compared to the advice you give to others.

I respect peoples right to take drugs or not to take drugs, and I hope that people can avoid moral judgements like 'hard drugs are bad'. The distinction between hard and soft drugs is false, ALL drugs are POTENTIALLY dangerous. Some people can take drugs with no negative impact on them, others cannot. Drugs are a tool, and like any tool the user must remain in control. But this is getting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif) and maybe we could start a new thread to discuss this matter in the Void forums.

Understanding ourselves is surely an important part of making spiritual progress, how can we fix the machine until we understand how it is broken? So DollHouseKitty *has* made spiritual progress and gained insight, even if the effects are not immediate or profound.

Uhh...take my own advice? I'm sorry, but where did I mention anything about taking drugs being ok? Where did I give advice on the usage of drugs?

I re-read my posts, and see none of what your talking about. So before this is moved to another board, I would like you to point me to the direction of where I said ANYTHING about the use of drugs and other people besides myself.

By the way, I didn't see myself outwardly attacking anyones opinion OR lessons, I also thought that this board was about freedom of ones own beliefs and discussing different views, not having them thrown into a pile of dirt to be walked on. As far as I recall, I was at least decent in my arguements towards my own convictions, not rude and cutting. Or am I missing something?

And if you would like to that quote to try and disregard the above statement, keep in mind I was there once too, and I knew I was acting that way. Teen angst at it's finest, really.

This post has been edited by DollHouseKitty: Jun 25 2005, 03:35 AM

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) hehe, relax...

I did not say you did not grow spiritually from your past life, i said you did not grow from remembering it.

The growing occurred in your past life, while you were still living it,
not because of the sudden memory recall you had.

So it does not matter whether you remember or not, since the growth already happened.
Remembering does not make you grow further, mental baggage does not equal spiritual growth.


You clearly were a drug addict in your past life, since you died from an overdose. That is just the truth, unless you don't believe in reincarnation anymore.

Being a drug addict, i would learn how the drug is addictive, and i would learn respect and tolerance toward people that take drugs.
Thats something i find strange in your story, but people experience things differently i suppose.

I stand by my opinions, but i do not ask you to agree to them.
People differ, thats just the way life is...

Relax a little, don't take it personally (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Uhh...take my own advice? I'm sorry, but where did I mention anything about taking drugs being ok? Where did I give advice on the usage of drugs?

DollHouseKitty, if you look at the quote I used it was where you were advising Smoking_Fox not to worry about 'those kids' opinions, and then you procedd in a post to take offense to Smoking_Fox's opinions. I though it was slightly ironic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

For example, I have a deep aversion to hard drugs (cocaine, heroine, etc), one that's deep enough to be almost considered a problem. There are very obvious reasons why I don't like them (because their bad),

You state that hard drugs are "bad", which looks like a moral judgement to me. Hence my comments in my reply.

'Soul' is a very vague term or word. There is an immaculate transcendent-immanent Consciousness-Awareness on which all cosmoses & souls exist. Every person has got 3 bodies : causal, astral and physical. Soul in the real sense of the word is your causal body. Causal body is like a seed which sprouts into tree of astral & physical bodies. Though I have seen my astral body, I am yet to see my causal body.
Continuing with my confessions, I was half human-half animal in another dimension many thousands of years ago and further much longer time before that I was a lemon tree. Dominant streak during my complete existence has been a weakness for opposite gender but never any incest.

The "because their bad" was a sarcastic comment....I guess I should have elaborated on that some.

And no, I wasn't a drug addict, I was forced to take the drugs at 17 years old which caused my early death, which to me, I learned that lesson in this next life.

I'm sorry I overreacted, my emotional life is kinda in a major upheaval, and as you've noticed I'm a touch sensitive. I assure you, this is not my normal behavior, lol. I do apologize for my words if they offended.

DollHouseKitty no offense taken, i really do appreciate your opinion even when i do not agree.

I made some long reply but then the site was down.

Perhaps i will come back and type it again tomorrow.

Well, this has been quite an interesting discussion.

I don't doubt that souls can migrate from species to species, though I've never actually seen it happen- from what I remember, I've always been human. But the idea that such reincarnations are caused by your actions in the previous life is a bit of an assumption, if you ask me.

IMO, there really is no "reason" or "purpose" for reincarnation- it just is. If it is, that is. (Strange the words that find their way onto the screen.) I don't believe in the traditional idea of karma, because I think punishment and rewards are soley a human invention- first used for revenge, then later for discipline. The universe doesn't think that way. The universe just wants to get you were it wants you, and if it wants you to be an evil maniac with bad habits, then your past lives will show such a trend, I think.

And anyway, if reincarnation always causes spiritual growth, then wouldn't the human race be a bit more advanced in that area than it is? Just sayin'.

On the off-topic topic, I think a lot of us are stating OPINIONS as FACTS. We should remember that we're dealing with religious ideas, of which nobody can claim true knowledge.

Spiritual growth occurs, but it is not necessary.
Many times lives are wasted and lessons are avoided, because they are not fun or desirable to learn.

That is what people do in at least one life. I skipped on many lessons because of fear and/or laziness, especially when i was younger.
This seems to be the case with almost everyone. Many people become a drone, a work machine, working, eating and then dying without any progress.

The way I see it all of the above is totally arguable , none of it has any tangeable evidence . No one that has posted here has any hard core proof of who or what they are , were in a past life , we are either letting ourselves being carried away by our imaginations or trying to back up something in our lives , by fancies that we create to make things gullible.
On a macro level , lets use religion as an example . One says all our sins will be forgiven if we repent and we live in heaven and so forth , another goes on about animals and what have you , then you have motivational speakers who have another theory . WHO CAN PUT THEIR HEADS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK AND SAY "I KNOW" ?.
Follow your intuition or use your brain . In this life "we are all part of the same compost heap , we are the all singing all dancing crap of the world " so , just try to make the most of it , I know I hav'nt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/5.gif)

yes, starlit knight, there is no tangible evidence on reincarnation.
I agree that it cannot be proven. Personally i have no solid opinion on it, I think it may be true, but i don't know, and i don't care.

The point of my posts is that i believe it does not matter. The results are still the same, we are all living here, trying to grow spiritually.
We are all just trying to make the most of it, as you said so beautifully.

However, discounting everything that cannot be proven is not good either. Magick cannot be proven, and the workings of a ritual cannot be proven either.
To me its not whether it can be proven or not, its whether or not i can gain anything from it. The question if i can use it to grow.