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 Dealing with Spirits/Entities, How Human are they?
bym
post Dec 19 2005, 05:45 PM
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Gone But Not Forgotten
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Greetings!
In a previous thread in the Goetic area I was having an interesting discussion with another member about the methods of evocation and we touched upon the mental arena in which we determine motives of spiritual entities to contact or interact with the magician. I may have not got all of that correctly...so I hope 'Moonburn' will respond to my wording/synopsis. I was going to reply in part to that other thread with this:
I can see where you are coming from but disagree with your delivery and motives. I'd've liked to say 'Old School' vs 'New School' but that would not give credit to either.
Most of our membership here would be dead within hours if left alone at birth, native ability(ies) notwithstanding. Two chunks of plutonium have amazing potential but without the proper tools/'exercises' they will not slam together and produce a nuclear 'explosion' or produce enough heat to boil water to turn steam turbines to produce electricity. There are a few rare, gifted individuals that can produce magic effects/phenomena at will without any schooling. If you are one of these people then you have a very marketable skill and should be feeding the masses. This is what I was refering to as being desireable. I definately, wholeheartedly disagree with your pigeonholing of elementals, angels and devic/fae beings/entities. They are not human, do not think like humans and do not mimic humans...at all. It would be like claiming that dolphins are larcenous. Does not compute. IMHO.
All too often, we humans, have a tendency to 'humanize' things....everything actually! (a failing of mine as a shaman as compared to a scientist) Anthropomorphizing is a time honored tradition! When we don't understand something or if that something 'skirts' around the outside of human experiences (everyday) we will give it a pleasant form, to make our inherent zenophobia quiescent. We do not like things that we a. don't understand, b. frighten us or, ultimately, c. are different than us. The world is filled with evidence of this! It is a universal, human trait. When I read about the casual conversations that people have with angelic beings, demonic beings, devic beings, etc. I start to have doubts....I know, too bad for me. When one claims that non human entities have similar emotional states and/or psychological states I begin to smell a rat. (Hey, that's the dead elephant caught in the wall! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) Everytime we interact with others we do so by going thru what I call a 'filter'. Each of us views the universe in a unique way. This 'filter' is our "Tower of Babel". Telepathy can give us a more direct approach but is, in it's self, a very rare thing. As sentient beings (I'd like to think) we often change these filters in response to various outside stimulus...giving them easier visages (or whatever) to deal with according to need.

You will note that when you deal with various entities that they don't 'speak' at you but rather communicate either by pictures, telepathy or sense pattern. How would they know how to speak Chinese or Italian? Have you ever wondered why, in many grimoires, that the magician, whilst conjuring Umpty-Squat, will demand that the entity assume a pleasant and comely appearance? Why? We relate to people or human shaped things better than something that looks like the cat yakked up a mouse or a transdimensional cubic rhomboid with fur. Sometimes this is a very good thing! There are more than a few tales of madness induced by the 'shape' of a conjured entity.

To sum up this ramble...I think that quite often people will paint softer pictures of entity interaction due to themselves dealing with themselves (or a variation thereof) or themselves dealing with an entity that has the ability to use telepathy or shapeadjustments (both spatial and spiritual). Not all demonic/angelic/devic interactions are really with those entities but rather with intricate manifestations of the human psyche. Be suspicious of entities that seem to be very human....they usually are! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)
Now I've ranted and opinionated, I'd like to hear some feedback...? I promise to not open my mouth again unless it is to clarify a previously muddled statement of my own... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/5.gif) ...promise! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)


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Rest in Peace Bym.
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~The Sacred Magick Management

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Satarel
post Dec 20 2005, 04:27 AM
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Mayaparisatya
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Being an individual who failed the psychopath test in a manner that scared his sociology teacher quite completely with the sheer glibbness of my response, I completely understand the above points (go on - you know you're dying to ask). A completely alien mindset tends to blow great big holes in other people's brains as they try to explain it in their own terms - which quite often just don't work.

That said, I am also curious about your views on dealing with various entities. Having dealt with genderless and "gendered" spirits, I can understand on some level the whole alien thing... I know it's somewhat impossible, but "Dealing with Alien Entities for Dummies" would really come in handy.


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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