What Is It Capable Of? Options

I'm relatively new to the serious study of magick. I've been reading some of the works of Aleister Crowley, Gerald del Campo, and other thelemists. After reading about thelema, I'm left with the distinct impession that magickal workings are, in practice, essentially useless. All of the claims of "magickal" happenings seem to be spiritual and introverted in nature. They seem to be a means to better understand one's self, much like buddhist forms of philosophy and mysticism. Here is what I want to know: What are the actualy practical applications of magick? Is it possible for magick to effect dramatic, tangible change in a subject outside of the practitioners own mind? What kind of changes can be observed?

I want to thank everyone in this thread who has entertained my curiosities. I deeply apologize if I offended anyone in the process. I've never had a knack for diplomacy.

I've decided that I'll give occult study a shot and see how it all pans out. I'll probably start with Chaos Magick. It just appeals to me.

One more question for you, Vagrant: What are your thoughts on the supposed connections between Magick Theory and Quantum Physics? I'm particularly interested in Einstein and Schroedinger's views that our expectations and mere observance of reality can effect change in a subject without direct physical intervention by manipulating a submolecular matter known as quanta. Do you think this is a possible scientific explanation for magick and other psychic phenomena? There I go with the logic again. I promise I'll try and do better. ;-)

Well, you know, there was a science fiction author, i forget which one, who once said, "Any sufficiently advanced level of technology would be indistinguishable from magic to the primitive observer."

i think that the brain is a truly marvelous peice of organic technology. It was developed and groomed over time to allow the human race, at least in our case specifically, to attain things no other life form on this planet has been able to do - with both our knowledge and our expanded consciousness.

I believe it is possible to explain every phenomenon in the universe, with sufficient understanding of the basic laws of reality. Quantum theory is promising in that regard, because it includes the element of synchronicity in our understanding. Think about how you pick up a pencil and write a letter. That's a very complicated action to make, if you pick it apart into all of the learning, creativity, previous conditioning, etc., that goes into it. The whole thing is magical in and of itself. But, you don't have to completely understand each step of the process in order to do it - it just comes naturally, something you just learned and are able to do.

I think magick is the same sort of matter - you don't have to thoroughly understand all of the mechanics behind it to get results, the results are natural. Quantum theory - comparative to neurology in the letter writing example - seems like it could be onto a theory of magick. Of course, a scientist won't call it magick, and once we understand it as Human Kind, it'll no longer be so mysterious and occult. At that point the occult will advance further, and science will again be slightly behind it, following up on the new theories that the broad minded thinkers of the age are already applying without all the dissection of scientific phenomenon.

if you look at the past, at the alchemists, the qabbalists, etc., you'll see that science tends to follow in the wake of the occult. There are always a few occult minded scientists who will take all this mystical theory and find out where it fits into the mechanical picture of the universe. This progression is totally natural, and more than that, totally inevitable. Progress is a force of nature, the central element in human consciousness, and so that's what we do. Perhaps its connected to the survival instinct ultimately.

magick is a placeholder word for science not yet understood. Our consciousness is capable of some fascinating feats. Telepathy, telekinesis, all magickal work, dreaming - these things are on the very cutting edge of neuroscience, and starting to break ground in the world of hard facts and impeccable data. It's only a matter of time.

peace