What Is It Capable Of? Options

I'm relatively new to the serious study of magick. I've been reading some of the works of Aleister Crowley, Gerald del Campo, and other thelemists. After reading about thelema, I'm left with the distinct impession that magickal workings are, in practice, essentially useless. All of the claims of "magickal" happenings seem to be spiritual and introverted in nature. They seem to be a means to better understand one's self, much like buddhist forms of philosophy and mysticism. Here is what I want to know: What are the actualy practical applications of magick? Is it possible for magick to effect dramatic, tangible change in a subject outside of the practitioners own mind? What kind of changes can be observed?

Well Buddhasmash, what I think you're getting at is interesting. But, if the world is mechanistic, meaning that it works according only to physical laws, then it is purely deterministic as well. If it is purely deterministic then there is no free will. My suggestion is to stop thinking in terms of what part of magic you're going to study, and just pick a few good things and go through them. Modern Magick, The Magician's Workbook by Tyson, Liber Null and Psychonaut by Peter Carroll, Nightside of Eden by Kenneth Grant, The Book of Thoth and Magick in Theory and Practice by Crowley. There are better ways to learn than reading, but that kind of material is going to get you playing ball. It's not that hard. Perhaps it's simply not in the deterministic cards for you to do that.

Well Buddhasmash, what I think you're getting at is interesting. But, if the world is mechanistic, meaning that it works according only to physical laws, then it is purely deterministic as well. If it is purely deterministic then there is no free will. My suggestion is to stop thinking in terms of what part of magic you're going to study, and just pick a few good things and go through them. Modern Magick, The Magician's Workbook by Tyson, Liber Null and Psychonaut by Peter Carroll, Nightside of Eden by Kenneth Grant, The Book of Thoth and Magick in Theory and Practice by Crowley. There are better ways to learn than reading, but that kind of material is going to get you playing ball. It's not that hard. Perhaps it's simply not in the deterministic cards for you to do that.

Why does the idea that the world works entirely off of physical laws make the world determinstic? Why is there an absolute correlation between the two attributes?

Why does the idea that the world works entirely off of physical laws make the world determinstic? Why is there an absolute correlation between the two attributes?

How can there be a physical law that creates freedom? If all is Law where is freedom? It's a mechanistic Universe you're talking about, right? Honestly, a great deal of scientists believe in this form of determinism. Buddha believed in a different form of determinism. Just a thought.

How can there be a physical law that creates freedom? If all is Law where is freedom? It's a mechanistic Universe you're talking about, right? Honestly, a great deal of scientists believe in this form of determinism. Buddha believed in a different form of determinism. Just a thought.

There can be freedom within law, as long as you work within the parameters of the law. Take a computer, for instance. A computer operates off of physical laws, but you can bend those physical laws to your will with creative coding methods. If the nature of reality is indeed mechanistic, then who's to say that the same methods can't be applied? The existence of physical law doesn't phohibit me from following my free will, it just stops be from doing wildly outlandish things like morphing into a platypus. I have to reject the idea that the presence of law entirely precludes free will. I live in America, which has a rather authoriatarian government by my standards, but the presence of those laws does not eradicate my free will. It simply places parameters on it.

This post has been edited by buddhasmash: Nov 8 2006, 03:03 PM