I think the aparent discrepancy between arguments here lies in the difference between mainstream orthodox christianity, and a more inclusive christianity, which is based on the teachings of jesus in all its documented forms. Which uses logic and reason to pick out the recurring themes of jesus's techings to get at what was being taught. For many of these seemingly contradictory ppoints of view it is merely a case of semantics. Of how do you, and how did the qotes afore mentioned define magick? I for myself am a christian and i do not worship the sun or the moon or any other than god himself. But that is not to say that i will disregard the sun or the moon, or that if i feel that either of these attempt to comunicatre with me, that i shall not hear them. Just as if love my wife it does not mean that i worship her. As if i love my neighbour the way jesus taught that i am in some way worshiping false prophets. I enjoy music, art literature, and beauty, and i see all these as forms of worship to god, and by enjoying and observing others worshiping, am i then no longer worshipping? No. There are many ways that with a closed interpretation of peoples writings you could deem them to mean something a lot less like what they intended. It is easy to to be brought up and guided into a manipulated mode of interpretation, and if you have pre conceptions, and dont take a text at face value, then it is easy to be guided by your pre conceptions. Any way it is pointless for me to argue. I can say that for myself, if a christian told me that they were using magick in a way that did not compromise the teachings of jesus christ (whos are the teachings that a "christian" follows - hence christ-ian), and was being used for altruistic purposes in terms of themselves and others, then i would say to them that i beleive that that is ok. But that i am in no way more of an authority than a priest, as they are no more of an authority than me. We both have access to the same books. But unlike many of them, i have read the book of enoch, and the gospel of thomas, and that of mary, and stil it is useless for us to compare our interpretaions for you. Only you can make up your own mind. In listening to two opposing points of view, in the end it is still up to you to "decide" which you agree with. God gave us free wil, and a choice. This ability to choose goes far beyond the duality of good and evil. And this should always be remembered when anyone is trying to tell you that something is good or evil.
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