Lbrp Ritual, is there any differences in respect of the hemispheres? Options

Hi guys i cam across this site http://vsociety.net/ from one member who posted a topic on psiballs. I came to the LBRP explained there http://forums.vsociety.net/topic/7777.0
There is something that intringues me.. As i live in the southern hemisphere, this paragraph interests me:

One also moves in a clockwise direction, to follow the direction of the sun. If you live in the southern hemisphere you travel counter-clockwise, and exchange ADNI in the south for AGLA in the north.

• Starting in the east, drawn the banishing pentagram and vibrate YHVH (Yeh-ho-vah)
• Draw a line to the south and draw the banishing pentagram, vibrate ADNI (A-do-nai)
• Draw a line to the west and draw the banishing pentagram, vibrate AHIH (E-he-ieh)
• Draw a line to the north and draw the banishing pentagram, vibrate AGLA (Ah-goo-lah)
• Draw a line back to the east to complete the circle.

Does that mean that after the 1st penta for YHVH, i turn antoclockwise???? confusing

what i normally do is that i have my compass... i know where it shows east north south west...
for the first penta i do it in the east direction of the compass. .then i move clockwise to go to south for the next penta.. Am i doing it right over here.. else i think i completely sucked in my LBRPs... But i think that invoking the divine with the atah malkuth ... le oh lahm etc is quite powerful to keep shit off.... well some advice from the experienced ones...

The reason you walk around the circle clockwise is because that's the path the sun appears to take throughout the year on the horizon. Clockwise motion in rituals is sometimes called sunwise because of this. This is a life-affirming movement, for want of a better phrase. The eastern quadrant is where the sun rises every day, bringing new light.

Anti-clockwise movement is sometimes called widdershins, I believe. I'm unsure if this is supposed to be in correspondence with the movement of the black sun through the sky during the year or not. The western quadrant is where the sun sets, bringing the night.

If you're elsewhere in the universe this may be reversed, it depends on local conditions!

Greetings Zugzwangm,

I don't think I agree with this assessment.

First of all, the sun's path along the horizon is not circular. It oscillates from a northern extreme (June solstice) to a southern extreme (December solstice) never traveling more than 47 degrees. I think by "movement along the horizon" what your are referring to is the apparent path of the sun along the ecliptic which moves from Aries to Taurus to Gemini, etc. in an anti-clockwise manner for the northern hemisphere. This is the coordinate system used by astrologers as well as one of the coordinates used by modern astronomers.

Or it could be the apparent path of the sun around the celestial pole. In the northern hemisphere the north celestial pole is above the horizon and the sun's motion is from east to west; hence anti-clockwise for an individual looking at the pole. In the southern hemisphere the southern celestial pole is above the horizon and the sun's motion is also from east to west, but is seen as clockwise for an individual looking at the pole.

It seems like if there was an astronomical reason for the clockwise motion of the LBRP, it would be reverse to what people here are saying. Anti-clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere, and clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere. But things get tricky at equatorial latitudes since both the north and south celestial poles are even to the horizon. If you look to the southern pole, the sky and sun appear to rotate in a clockwise manner and if you look north the sky and sun rotate in a counter-clockwise manner. So it basically depends on which direction you are looking.

In sum, I don't think one can argue a hemisphere-based version of the LBRP based on any astronomical/ observational reality. I frequently travel between both hemispheres and use the LBRP successfully in the traditional clockwise motion.

Note:

I've been thinking about this further and there is a possible correlation to clockwise movement in the northern hemisphere if the perspective is from the north celestial pole looking down onto a location in the northern hemisphere. In this this hypothetical perspective, the sun will indeed appear to move in a clockwise manner and the opposite is true for the southern hemisphere (south celestial pole perspective). But there does not seem to be any logical reasoning for taking this perspective since from this location it becomes apparent that the earth is rotating around the sun and thus clockwise or anti-clockwise becomes irreverent.

This post has been edited by Faustopheles: Dec 25 2006, 03:47 AM

Greetings Zugzwangm,

I don't think I agree with this assessment.

First of all, the sun's path along the horizon is not circular. It oscillates from a northern extreme (June solstice) to a southern extreme (December solstice) never traveling more than 47 degrees. I think by "movement along the horizon" what your are referring to is the apparent path of the sun along the ecliptic which moves from Aries to Taurus to Gemini, etc. in an anti-clockwise manner for the northern hemisphere. This is the coordinate system used by astrologers as well as one of the coordinates used by modern astronomers, etc...

You are mistaken. What I'm referring to is very simple, I don't see why you would have difficulty in agreeing or at least seeing the validity of my previous post at all - as it's based on the movement of the sun throughout the year, which everyone knows (if nobody paid attention to the cycle of the sun crops would fail and people would starve having not known that winter was about to pounce).

To reiterate:

Take a snapshot of the position of the sun at sunrise and set at both the height of summer and in the depths of winter; you'll see the sun appears to have moved from where it once was - to your right, clockwise, sunwise. This is the reason we walk about the circle clockwise and why this movement is called sunwise in many books on magick.

Water twirls clockwise down a plughole in the northern hemisphere of the earth and anti-clockwise in the southern hemisphere, thus I could say that drinking water in the southern hemisphere has negative effects or I could see that to say such a thing would be evident of my begin trapped in my own definitions - my own language. What is called the clockwise movement of water in the north is called anti-clockwise movement of water in the south, but they are both the same movement.

I think this should be taken into account for the LBRP wherever you happen to be in the universe.

I can't make it any more clear than that.

This post has been edited by Zugzwang: Dec 26 2006, 09:37 AM