Lbrp Ritual, is there any differences in respect of the hemispheres? Options

Hi guys i cam across this site http://vsociety.net/ from one member who posted a topic on psiballs. I came to the LBRP explained there http://forums.vsociety.net/topic/7777.0
There is something that intringues me.. As i live in the southern hemisphere, this paragraph interests me:

One also moves in a clockwise direction, to follow the direction of the sun. If you live in the southern hemisphere you travel counter-clockwise, and exchange ADNI in the south for AGLA in the north.

• Starting in the east, drawn the banishing pentagram and vibrate YHVH (Yeh-ho-vah)
• Draw a line to the south and draw the banishing pentagram, vibrate ADNI (A-do-nai)
• Draw a line to the west and draw the banishing pentagram, vibrate AHIH (E-he-ieh)
• Draw a line to the north and draw the banishing pentagram, vibrate AGLA (Ah-goo-lah)
• Draw a line back to the east to complete the circle.

Does that mean that after the 1st penta for YHVH, i turn antoclockwise???? confusing

what i normally do is that i have my compass... i know where it shows east north south west...
for the first penta i do it in the east direction of the compass. .then i move clockwise to go to south for the next penta.. Am i doing it right over here.. else i think i completely sucked in my LBRPs... But i think that invoking the divine with the atah malkuth ... le oh lahm etc is quite powerful to keep shit off.... well some advice from the experienced ones...

Greetings Zugzwang,

I’m not trying to bust your balls, but this confusion should be cleared up for the sake of all.

As you mentioned In the height of summer (June solstice for the northern hemisphere) the sun is at a northern extreme whereby it moves to the southern extreme (December solstice) moving 47 degrees across the horizon from left to right if facing east or right to left if facing west. The sun stops at these extremes for a period of 2-3days (hence "solstice" from the Latin "sun + standstill"). After this solstice period, the apparent course of the sun across the horizon changes direction, returning from right to left . Viewed as a 2-D plan it is a such:

NE ---------------- E ------------------ SE
+23.5 ---------------- 0 ----------------- -23.5

Where -23.5 is the declination for winter solstice (northern hemisphere) and +23.5 is the declination for summer solstice, 0 being the declination for equinox. The sunrises oscillate from right to left (from winter to summer) for 6 months and then from left to right (summer to winter) also for 6 months. In which case either direction could be argued to be sun-wise.

There is no circle! The sun’s path on the horizon is from 23.5 degrees NE to 23.5 degrees SE… this is about ¼ of the N-S semicircle. The circle is the ecliptic NOT the horizon. The ecliptic is what is represented in astrological charts. The perspective of an astrological chart is from the north celestial pole looking down on the subject. In which case, yes, the plotted course of the sun moves clockwise throughout the year. But this is not an astronomical reality (as it is based on a geocentric perspective) so will not have any “real” bearing on the flow of energy in the ritual. It is a system of charting the sun, and if the Babylonian astrologers wanted to, they could have reversed the system (sun move counter-clockwise) and nothing would have changed. It was a choice, much in the same way that some cultures read from left to right, while others read from right to left.

There is NO astronomical reason for claiming the sun moves in a clockwise manner. The term sunwise comes from the common usage of the astrological coordinate system to chart the course of the sun. This is a system of measurement NOT an astronomical (or even observable) reality.

You seem to have an interest in how pre-industrial peoples viewed the sky. I suggest that you pick up a copy of Anthony Aveni's Skywatchers , or Clive Ruggles Astronomy in Prehistoric Britain, or Ed C. Krupp's book titled Echoes of Ancient Skies. There are tons of books and articles on the subject , these three are my favorites and by far the most straightforward approaches to positional astronomy and the processes through which cultures developed calendars...Good Reads!

This post has been edited by Faustopheles: Dec 26 2006, 11:59 AM

I’m not trying to bust your balls, but this confusion should be cleared up for the sake of all.

I think you're taking the piss.

(IMG:http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/Exoteric/7a0c4e06.jpg)

The rising sun is shown in the above diagram as a upward-pointing triangle, the setting sun is shown as a downward-pointing triangle. The solid line shows the path of the sun through the sky during the height of summer (the line should be depicted as curved, but for ease of comprehension and neatness it is drawn straight). The dotted line shows the path of the sun through the sky during the depths of winter.

As shown in the diagram by the arrows; from summer to winter the positions of the rising and setting sun moves clockwise. "Left to right if facing east or right to left if facing west" is thus invalidated as your not taking into account both the position of the rising and setting sun.

This clockwise movement is important and you cannot reverse the terms sunwise and widdershins as you suggest. Sunwise is a life-affirming movement and is told in the bible for example as the story of yahshua. I'm sure you know about the parallel story of horus as well. The story of tammuz is another that comes to mind (the phoenix, the light of the world, the sun of god which dies and three days later is resurrected).

Yes, the plotted course of the sun moves clockwise throughout the year. But this is not an astronomical reality (as it is based on a geocentric perspective) so will not have any “real” bearing on the flow of energy in the ritual (...) there is NO astronomical reason for claiming the sun moves in a clockwise manner. The term sunwise comes from the common usage of the astrological coordinate system to chart the course of the sun. This is a system of measurement NOT an astronomical (or even observable) reality.

As the geocentric perspective is obviously flawed I shall plant and nurture my plants whenever I'm in the mood! How well do you think my plants will do? The sun clearly has no effect whatsoever on how plants or animals behave throughout the year on planet earth. There is no observable evidence that bears for example have to hibernate due to the sun titling the balance of their local ecosystem, neither is there any evidence that crops planted at the wrong time of year fail. There is also no evidence to suggest that anything in magick has any correspondence to the movements of the stars or planets, even though the opposite is suggested very plainly by 777 - not to mention that magick is based, in general, on observable changes in corporeal or corporean reality which will naturally encompass the movement of the sun.