What Would It Take To Piss Off An Entity?, Just out of curiosity Options

In your dealings with the goetia, is there ever a time when something just turns them berserk?
How do they react to insults, disrespect and treating the whole ritual as a laugh?

I realize this topic has the potential to make me unpopular; (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tomato.gif) but if I ever get the chance to summon a goetic spirit, I don't want to screw anything up by accedentally insulting it.

I don't see my opinion being like a butt hole.

Also I believe solomon himself was a Wacko any damn way, the Demons/Demonesses didn't want to do anything for him he should have left them alone. Same with humans today, if the Demons/Demonesses don't want to do anything, then they should leave them the hell alone. The whole practice, and others like it is just ridiculous any way. Well I guess humans will learn one day.

This post has been edited by Sparkles: Feb 18 2007, 04:57 PM

If you want to "leave things the hell alone," what interest could magic possibly have for you?

From the perspective of the supposed author of the Goetia, whether Solomon or the equally mythic occultist/priest of the 14th to 16th century, the spirits are false gods whose worship leads mankind away from the true and proper Judaic Monotheism. Accordingly, they are treated as criminal terrorists, enemies of the State, and are subjected to censure as a result.

Given that Solomon, or quite possibly even the Medieval Church, had the power to remove these spirits and their worship more or less utterly from the known universe, the author had sufficient leverage to make this Pact (the brazen vessel and its bindings) work, the spirits being offered a choice between servitude or complete oblivion.

As it stands, that is, according to the actual rites and requisites given in the Goetia, this Judiac Monotheism is the way to do Goetia. You can change things, eliminate various tools or curses, make things you "own," but in doing so you are doing something Goetia-based or Goetia-themed, not the true Imperial Art of Solomon the Wise. Under the original forms, you are dealing with conquered criminal entities who have been made subject to dismal labor at your whim. If you had human criminals, under your thumb in such a way, would it be so distasteful?

The entities in these grimoires are, in my opinion and experience to date, elements of human psyche given form (thought-form) and while they should be respected as one respects any element of the Source from which all things spring, worshiping them is like worshiping one's own mind. If you seek to be a slave to your own psyche, then that is the path for you. However, by exercising dominion over these spirits (who are in no tradition regarded as Gods) is reflective of the dominion the magician has over his own mind. Hence, the greater the mastery of the mind by the 'hand' of the magician, the greater his mastery over these demons.

This is of course only one view on the nature of those entities. I have always seen solomon's sealing of the demons into the vessel as being analogous to creating a 'key' to the lower psyche for all of mankind to thereafter make use of, mastering those lower (demon) elements.

A great many of these beings seem to be companionable, and if treated with a combination of respect and dominance, then like a good dog they will be loyal. However, if you observe each entity, and parallel it to an element of the psyche, you will see easily that they are, every one of them, negative elements. You do not have to be a bastard to be a criminal, to follow Imperial's analogy of their nature.

Worship them as gods, and they will lead you to confusion, it is their nature.

Being that they are the lower elements of the psyche, I would liken the path that they will take you down to that of the qlippothic tree, into the darkness of the soul, rather than the light. Of course, that is acceptable to some, and for those - Right on, do your thing.

Like the individual being, negative elements must be mastered and excised or transmuted into something positive if the being is to be elevated. Criminals in society are the same way. One cannot simply forgive the negative aspects of the mind, and then allow them to go on with a 'warning', and criminals likewise cannot be 'forgiven' and let go on a warning. Much life would be lost that way, aside from all the other lesser evils that would persist. What then should be done with them, sparkles, if they are not put to task? Just as the individual takes those negative elements and masters them, working good by them rather than the evil they would do on their own, society masters those negative elements within it, turning their actions towards some greater good. (current system's effectiveness notwithstanding - this is the idea, though like the novice individual, society has perhaps yet to figure out exactly how that is done)

Sympathy for the devil is a good way to get burned. He as no sympathy for you.

peace