Jesus As A God-form?, to use Jesus as god-form in the Enochian system Options

Peace be to you,
I'm still in the begining stages of learning enochian magick and it formulae. I'm just getting a handle on the pyramids and their acompanying egyption God-forms. Correct me if this isn't right; basically one is using a particular egyptian godform to command the angels (elementals?) of a specific square or pyramid yes? I'm wondering if one could use Jesus(yeshua) in place of an egyptian diety and still have the system function properly. As with most spiritual sciences, It's usually a matter of faith, whatever deity you choose to put your faith in. So.. I'm thinking why not? There is a chance that enochian spirits could be tormented by this method so I'm not so sure.
I've always thought of creating a "chritianized" form of Magick that would be more adaptable to others like myself from that background.
This would be helpful in using systems where the pantheons of pagan Gods & Godesses are being predominately used as the base.
I've already had some sucess with this "substitution of God names" with things like the Key-word, and the BRH. I will definately NOT TRY THIS with Enochian rituals until my knowledge and understanding of the system is more complete. I just wanted to hear any feedback any of you who have more experience with the system may have on this Idea of mine, or any feedback at all is welcome.

"forever experimenting"
Thanks Love & Light

This post has been edited by Lightning777: Sep 12 2007, 07:10 AM

Greetings Lightning777!
I'm curious as to why would you wish to upset the apple cart? The Enochian system was allegedly handed to Dee thru Kelley by the angel Uriel....an Archangel in service to God. The smaller pieces of the elemental tablets use/can use the Egyptian God-forms but they are also additions from later systems involvement (ie Golden Dawn). Adding the Christ-force will totally UNBALANCE the elemental forces involved! Leave wellenough alone. The system works well whether or not you are a Christian... I apologize in case this sounds like an anti-Christian rant. Use your Faith in your preparatory works. Study the various evocational methods and create an all-Christian model. BUT, please, leave established systems alone. Would you rewrite Shakespeare? Take a hard look into Gnostic writings...there are many magical texts that will flow with your Faith. I wish you well on your journey. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The revelation to Dee included admonitions to render no worship unto Jesus, who in their opinion was not divine.

If you find this unsettling, imagine being a respectable man in the 16th century whose occult interests are already on the fringes of permissibility.

I imagine that the spirits would have similar notions about Egyptian gods too. The Round Tablet instructions clearly indicate that the primary Enochian spirits are merely translations of the traditional planetary Archangels.

At no point in Dee's journals do I find anything about the use of god-forms, despite there being several instructions on how to carry out the conjurations. John Dee was apparently a devout Christian, and if you want to work Enochian magic within that religion perhaps you could emulate his technique as it does not appear to lack piety.

The revelation to Dee included admonitions to render no worship unto Jesus, who in their opinion was not divine.

If you find this unsettling, imagine being a respectable man in the 16th century whose occult interests are already on the fringes of permissibility.

I imagine that the spirits would have similar notions about Egyptian gods too. The Round Tablet instructions clearly indicate that the primary Enochian spirits are merely translations of the traditional planetary Archangels.

At no point in Dee's journals do I find anything about the use of god-forms, despite there being several instructions on how to carry out the conjurations. John Dee was apparently a devout Christian, and if you want to work Enochian magic within that religion perhaps you could emulate his technique as it does not appear to lack piety.

Greetings Imperial Arts,
Thanks for your reply on this,You meant "in the spirits opinion jesus was not devine"? I couldn't find anything on the use of God-Forms Egyptian or other & the pyramids in any of the Dee Texts, So is that an addition of the Golden Dawn?
Most of what I've gathered outside GD texts is from Ben Rowe, especially about the pyramids,sphinxes of power ect.
As I stated I'm not bound to ANY RELIGION I just have a few things I can't do, and bowing to other Gods is one of the them.That in essence is what stopped me from joining A GD temple. As Bym said their was a lot in Gnostic texts on this which helped to inspire my "expermentation" thus far. It's worked great with evocations and other basic rituals, but then again I work with Angels of God almost exclusvely. I always joke and say "It took my whole life to get the Demonic entities out of my life, why in the Hell would I want to call them back LOL" I do understand that the Demons can give you things that Angels elect will not- If it's not in line with Gods will for you.
Thanks again I'm just trying to make it workable with my own belief system. I always hear people joking about how many rules God(YHVH) has in the bible, including the ten commandments, But it's also written that Yeshua (Jesus) said; If you Love the Lord your god with your whole heart, and do unto others as you would have done unto you , If you keep these two things your keeping ALL the rest. So thiese two are my guidline in life. Thank you very much as I don't want to sound preachy myself ha ha Lightning

Considering that the Enochian system is based on original scryings into the eye of Texcatlipoca (the Aztec "devil"), I am often tempted to think of the whole thing as a remnant of early Central American occultism.

It is not in direct parallel to any actual Aztec beliefs or practices, but there are a few similarities. The floor cloth is red (blood?), flat square plates are used with complex interlocking hieroglyphs. A tablet is worn on the chest, and a ring, but no rods or swords are used. the Sigillum Dei Ameth looks suspiciously like an Aztec calendar. The system is foucsed on acquiring minerals, transporting them, and refining them into medicines... the Aztec civilization used no wheels. Granted the interpretations given by Dee favor his parent culture, but I think it is possible that he discovered an obscure secret from a dead tradition.

Anything remotely similar to Egyptian lore included in Enochian is post-Golden Dawn. Some of it is fairly creative. I have wondered whether or not the elemental and astrological attributions of the Golden Dawn (and those of Donald Tyson and Gerald Schueler) are actually all that comparable to the way Dee understood the tablets. For example, Dee attributes the powers described above to the spirits, and I am at a loss to find a strong relationship in Dee's work between the tablets and the elementals. The elemental division is, in modern practice, taken for granted.

Also, in the list of 91 governors, their sigils map out nations of the world according to a chart that does not well-match the actual globe, and these constitute the Aethyrs. In modern use the Aethyrs are viewed in a sequential or progressive system of spiritual import.