Use Of Drugs For Magickal Purposes, questions Options

What are your opinions on it? Does the drug induced state help/hinder your grasp on magick, or both? I've thought about if it would alter your ability to grasp energy, yet at the same time, could it help you become more aware of the surroundings, or your self-conscious? So what are the opinions, or facts on this subject?

forgive me if i go through digging up a few retired threads over the next few days/weeks, i've just started having a good look at the great info here.

essentially i agree with what Vagrant Dreamer has posted (infact, almost everything you've posted that i've read resonates extremely well with me, so i'll take this opportunity to thank you, you are an inspiration!), there are most definitely pros and cons just as there are for most practices. just a few more things i would like to add to the discussion....

firstly i'd like to address the idea that drugs only take you to the astral plane of symbols and illusion, as this seems to be a fairly common thought among some people and i understand why. but to me it would seem naive for us to assume that the cultures who still use substances such as ayahuasca for healing, divination, etc are not working with the genuine magickal forces just because they use plants in their work.

i'm not completely familiar with the Qabalah but based on my limited understanding and the positioning of Yesod, i'd probably be inclined to say that it may act as a portal to the higher dimensions, through which we can pass with the right drug/ritual and INTENT.

and this is where i feel the pivot point is - intent. just as intent is the backbone of magick, the same principles are applied in shamanism. to me taking a handful of mushrooms just to get high is like using an effective ritual to invoke a great spirit for the purpose of making you feel good, without the grounding and protective elements - my guess is you wont get away with that too many times.

as VD stated earlier, drugs induce the magickal trance state with very little effort on your part. this is the reason they are such effective tools but also why there's room for danger. most magickal practices require training, patience, persistence, devotion, etc to access these states which encourages (or even requires) the practitioner to be solidly grounded and in control of their life first. being able to bypass this process and get results can be very convenient and tempting, but you can literally find yourself 'out of your league' in terms of what you are confronted with, which can wreak havoc on all layers of your being. being able to induce a trance is one thing, but to use it is another. this is the difference between a real shaman and some kid with an endless supply of mushrooms; a shaman trains, is patient, persistent and devoted, just like any other successful energy worker. there are good tools, but really there's still no shortcuts in the end.

Delusion is definitely another key obstacle, however i don't see this as a problem exclusively with drug use. i dont know many occultists, but i have met a couple that i'm sure were losing the plot, as i'm sure some of you may have met too. it may be more likely to occur through drug use, but not due to the drug itself but again because many drug users bypass all the ground work which is required for the effective integration of the experience. there's trickster entities out there, and ground work helps you to know how to deal with them. i think the stigma attached to drugs exaggerates this issue a bit too; our culture defines the experience as a 'hallucination' and nothing more, so even if you feel you've been in direct communion with god, unless you've shed a good deal of conditioning it can play on your mind as to whether that was genuine or not. really this comes down again to a lack of context from which to understand the experience.

i can understand the concern of some that you can become dependent on the substance to induce trance and work magick. but if the substance is safe and you use it responsibly, does it really matter whether you use rituals or substances or both if the end result is the same? ultimately the goal could be to have access to all states through the use of the mind only, but no matter what path you choose this would be the result of a lifetime of dedication, and in the mean time we just have to use the tools available to us to the best of our ability. some will choose magick, some will choose shamanism, some will choose to fast and meditate for 5 years in solitude. i don't believe there is one right path, and all have their pros and cons

now i've gotta bring this rant to a close at some point, so why not now...

psychedelic drugs have been incredibly valuable to my spiritual development and i can't imagine how my life would have been without them. they've helped me to understand myself and appreciate life to the fullest, they've shown me the true power of ritual, intent and the reality of magickal energy, however i am aware that they aren't the panacea to all earthly problems and to continue to use them effectively requires just as much hard work as any other discipline. essentially this is why i am here now; i know what it's like to dance with delusion, i know there's no place for mucking around in the psychicsphere, i don't have my own Don Juan and so i'm trying to integrate as much knowledge as i can from all cultures in order to give me the most balanced understanding. if i can combine techniques from across the board and they are effective, i'll use them. while soul searching, i am open to the possibility that i may find other methods which are more effective than the use of drugs, that would be great. but i'm also open to the possibility that this is the path for me, and i may need to take a trip to the Amazon for some more experienced guidance at some stage.

anyway, thanks for everyone's contributions so far and i welcome more ideas, discussion and rebuttal! this topic is very relevant to me and the crossroads im sitting at currently.

peace
CosmicInferno

forgive me if i go through digging up a few retired threads over the next few days/weeks, i've just started having a good look at the great info here.

essentially i agree with what Vagrant Dreamer has posted (infact, almost everything you've posted that i've read resonates extremely well with me, so i'll take this opportunity to thank you, you are an inspiration!), there are most definitely pros and cons just as there are for most practices. just a few more things i would like to add to the discussion....

firstly i'd like to address the idea that drugs only take you to the astral plane of symbols and illusion, as this seems to be a fairly common thought among some people and i understand why. but to me it would seem naive for us to assume that the cultures who still use substances such as ayahuasca for healing, divination, etc are not working with the genuine magickal forces just because they use plants in their work.

i'm not completely familiar with the Qabalah but based on my limited understanding and the positioning of Yesod, i'd probably be inclined to say that it may act as a portal to the higher dimensions, through which we can pass with the right drug/ritual and INTENT.

and this is where i feel the pivot point is - intent. just as intent is the backbone of magick, the same principles are applied in shamanism. to me taking a handful of mushrooms just to get high is like using an effective ritual to invoke a great spirit for the purpose of making you feel good, without the grounding and protective elements - my guess is you wont get away with that too many times.

as VD stated earlier, drugs induce the magickal trance state with very little effort on your part. this is the reason they are such effective tools but also why there's room for danger. most magickal practices require training, patience, persistence, devotion, etc to access these states which encourages (or even requires) the practitioner to be solidly grounded and in control of their life first. being able to bypass this process and get results can be very convenient and tempting, but you can literally find yourself 'out of your league' in terms of what you are confronted with, which can wreak havoc on all layers of your being. being able to induce a trance is one thing, but to use it is another. this is the difference between a real shaman and some kid with an endless supply of mushrooms; a shaman trains, is patient, persistent and devoted, just like any other successful energy worker. there are good tools, but really there's still no shortcuts in the end.

Delusion is definitely another key obstacle, however i don't see this as a problem exclusively with drug use. i dont know many occultists, but i have met a couple that i'm sure were losing the plot, as i'm sure some of you may have met too. it may be more likely to occur through drug use, but not due to the drug itself but again because many drug users bypass all the ground work which is required for the effective integration of the experience. there's trickster entities out there, and ground work helps you to know how to deal with them. i think the stigma attached to drugs exaggerates this issue a bit too; our culture defines the experience as a 'hallucination' and nothing more, so even if you feel you've been in direct communion with god, unless you've shed a good deal of conditioning it can play on your mind as to whether that was genuine or not. really this comes down again to a lack of context from which to understand the experience.

i can understand the concern of some that you can become dependent on the substance to induce trance and work magick. but if the substance is safe and you use it responsibly, does it really matter whether you use rituals or substances or both if the end result is the same? ultimately the goal could be to have access to all states through the use of the mind only, but no matter what path you choose this would be the result of a lifetime of dedication, and in the mean time we just have to use the tools available to us to the best of our ability. some will choose magick, some will choose shamanism, some will choose to fast and meditate for 5 years in solitude. i don't believe there is one right path, and all have their pros and cons

now i've gotta bring this rant to a close at some point, so why not now...

psychedelic drugs have been incredibly valuable to my spiritual development and i can't imagine how my life would have been without them. they've helped me to understand myself and appreciate life to the fullest, they've shown me the true power of ritual, intent and the reality of magickal energy, however i am aware that they aren't the panacea to all earthly problems and to continue to use them effectively requires just as much hard work as any other discipline. essentially this is why i am here now; i know what it's like to dance with delusion, i know there's no place for mucking around in the psychicsphere, i don't have my own Don Juan and so i'm trying to integrate as much knowledge as i can from all cultures in order to give me the most balanced understanding. if i can combine techniques from across the board and they are effective, i'll use them. while soul searching, i am open to the possibility that i may find other methods which are more effective than the use of drugs, that would be great. but i'm also open to the possibility that this is the path for me, and i may need to take a trip to the Amazon for some more experienced guidance at some stage.

anyway, thanks for everyone's contributions so far and i welcome more ideas, discussion and rebuttal! this topic is very relevant to me and the crossroads im sitting at currently.

peace
CosmicInferno

I have had problems with this because i am very habitual in nature, being mildy autistic it makes these sort of things happen all the time.

The problem i had was that i became so engrossed in the visions i was seeing i completely stopped caring about the real world anymore. As a result i lost my job a lot of my friends and the respect of my parents. The drug in question is probably one of the stupidest things you can ever do, i became addicted to taking gas because it induces a very heavy form of hallucination and gives out of body experiences almost every time.

Though because of the sheer quantity of use and the enforced solitude that came with it what once started out as nice colourful visions of peaceful and wonderful places soon became horrific scenes of death and giant monstrous spiders attempting to devour me. Still i am not a squeemish person and so after steeling myself i carried on regardless starting to try and drive back these bad thoughts with sealing sigils for each and every one that came. However this was to no avail, for each one i sealed another took its place and so on, still to this day i have difficulty shedding the visions of them from my mind.

i think that drugs are ok for a one of just to see how far they can push you, but i urge you not to make it a common occurence in your life. It pretty muched ruined mine and its taken me three years and i still am not fully recovered and i may never be.

but this is the risk of it

was it worth it though.........to me yes because it gave me something more than reality to see, a whole new existence but not one i would recommend.