Sigil Science Options

Hello everyone

I find sigils quite interesting, and I would like to ask a few questions.

Now I understand that one can create a personal sigil, that has no inherent meaning unto itself as a symbol, but nevertheless transmits the desire into the subconscious mind. Now it also seems that sigils can be created that transmit their nature and intention to others besides itheir author/s. I am curious as to how this may be possible. If the author's subconscious mind registers the desire originally formulated by the conscious mind into a sentence and then synthesized into a sigil, you would figure that only the author, who programmed the desire into their own subconscious mind via the sigil, could activate/access the nature of that sigil. For the subconscious minds of others, you would figure the sigil would be meaningless. I could try to come up with my own theories on this, but I'm curious what others think.

For instance, the artwork and sigils of Andrew Chumbley possess no collective memory like Hebrew or Runes, etc, but are his own personal creations. Scrying into them opens up new vistas. Grants access to their nature and purpose, and the nature of the work scribed in Azoetia. It seems the sigils are somehow charged and ready to go for anyone. Like Goetic sigils. How is this possible? Also, most sigils transmit a simple, straighforward desire and purpose. THIS MY WILL TO etc etc Not so with something like runes or Hebrew. The deeper you delve, the deeper they go. The very word rune means mystery. It seems a specialized field of energy whose nature is unfathomable can be somehow bound or connected to a sigil or series of sigils. How is this possible? And what are the possible theories behind this?

For instance, say one had somehow hypothetically solved the mystery of creating an antigravity field. What if it were possible to create a series of sigils and and magickal "diagrams" capable of tapping into that field, so that the sigils and diagrams held the potential of actualizing this field. It would be obvious that the actual form and arrangement of the composite sigil/digrams would have to be functional on certain level.

Cheers all!

There is, actually, some debate as to the efficacy of sigils outside of its use by its creator.

Bym stated it nicely, (in that school of thought) that the purpose of the sigil is encoded in the glyph itself. Introduction into the Deep Mind/collective conscience would have the same or intended effect. It shouldn't matter whether you or I are the node of introduction.

that said.....

The introduction of a sigil to the Deep Mind will elicit a necassary (recipricating) response from the Deep back to the little mind that it (the sigil) origined from . . . this would be a specific response to the particular psyche structure of the specific mage.
This would certainly mean that my use of a sigil would be unique to me . . . alla, the generation (one method, at least) of a sacred alphabet.

In the 'Information model' . . . every sigil would contain the totality of at least the intention of the sigil . . . maybe even the totatlity of the sigil maker. Perhaps some symbolic representatives are sophisticated enough to allow a "remote" user to actually tap into the mind of the sigil creator themselve . . . directly.


I think its just b.s. . . . and that most people simply invent intentions of anonymous/ambigious sigils and then convince themselves as to whether or not they've been successful.
so, I don't buy into the shared efficacy . . . . at least for the "normal" simply amalgamate intention phrase glyph.

There is, actually, some debate as to the efficacy of sigils outside of its use by its creator.

Ah -- but forgotten in this discussion is my motto... "Everything is real." If we are to assume that all paths are legit, and I'd argue so (I've used nearly all in the last three decades with good results from all), then so is this system. I've call myself a chaotic only because I don't believe in Dogma and believe that the heart of all magick is creativity. Chaote's practice creativity above all.

But let's put this in perspective. If we accept, the quite correct statement by Palindroem, does that mean invented sigils don't work? No, I'd argue the opposite. It takes an advanced, creative and particularly practiced and confident practitioner to make it work simply because you can't fall back on hundreds of years (or realistically, decades) of cumulative practice as you do with sigils from other great arts. At one point, all sigils were invented was the concept.

Of course, I went away for awhile (busy, sorry!) then came back, but some of you may remember I'm a heavy practitioner in Tibetan mysteries from where nearly all of Chaos methods are "borrowed." The concept of servitors, for example, is based on Tibetan Tulpas, which were merely a "lesson" from a teacher to a student that although you can create a physical entity, in the end it's actually an illusion. It's a high concept. Everything is real, and nothing is real. The concept of MIND. This is why Tibetans absorb many systems (Western, Eastern, Daoist, Buddhist, Bonn, many others) into their dynamic system. Why? Because they know EVERYTHING works, regardless of belief system. And NOTHING works, because in the end it's a manifestation of MIND. But it does impact the physical world, because in Buddhist thinking the WORLD of the physical IS MIND. Huh. It gets deeper, but then you start to sound like Kwai Chang Kane on Kung Fu.

Bottom line is that Chaos is only for advance practitioners really who have traveled many paths and know their skills. Doubt will not creep in. Creativity is magick. Everything is Real. Chaos is the ultimate freedom from Dogma and the ultimate expression of creativity. Magick is creativity. Creative Will. Will can be expressed dogmatically through systems of magic, or created. It's irrelevant to an advanced user. This is why they're called "empty hands." No tools required. Just MIND.

So, it works. Does it work all the time? No way. Because you have to have supreme confidence in your abilities. Twenty years of practicing many paths is best. It works for me. But I'll bet it doesn't work fro 99% of practitioners, who probably dabble, try it, then abandon. There are no guarantees in magick, ever. It's the skill of the practitioner that matters.

The concept by the way is really the Jungian linking to the archetypal SUPER conciousness. Yes, you plant the seed in the SUB conscious. You create a sigil simply because the subconscious works in IMAGES. A Chaotic doesn't hesitate however to borrow from other sources, so a Kabalistic symbol, a Tarot card, an ancient sigil... they're all just as good. I'm lazy, that's what I tend to do. There's the added benefit of hundreds of years of use. But it's still MIND connecting to SUB mind connecting to SUPER MIND in images. Images are the ultimate language of magick, although sound is a close second. Visualization, creativity, images, sound... all the tools anyone really needs. Self reliance is good too.

However, Chaos never ever works if there's a calculating mind involved. As soon as you analyze why something should/shouldn't work, the entire intention becomes conscious. Conscious intention is the weakest method of communicating with the super conscious (which is still us, but the US that is connected to the super mind of the Universal Mind). Too much analysis means defeat in Chaos. The best approach for a calculating mind is formalized systems, in some ways more powerful simply because they have the added value of years of imprinting. Still, it's not the creative expression of Chaos, nor as versatile.

Chaos is really a dead-on parallel to Tibetan mysteries (not Tibetan Buddhism, I'm thinking advanced Tantric and higher level work).