Pet Peeve., Quantum Physics it’s involvement in Magick Options

Using science catch phrases to further your agenda or personal beliefs when you understand nothing of the science you are talking about. I could go into global warming, but that would make this alot longer.

I see this done over and over again, why is it necessary to justify something with something else when 90% of the time they understand neither subject?

I totally get it is a pet peeve, and I have too much emotional charge at this point as it detracts me every time I read something on magick that is totally plausible and they “justify it” by mentioning quantum physics.

Quantum physics is one of the “current” tool boxes used for the study of subatomic partials because Newtonian physics fails terribly at it.

At this point Quantum theory will never become “law” it is already known to be wrong. But it is still one of the best tool boxes they have for this area of study.

The only three cool thing in Quantum that people can relate to magick

1. The possibility to be in multiple places at once. (a photon will traverse every possible solution of a maze at once to get to the other side)
2. Instant effect (beyond the speed of light). Partials will change instantly when their twin is changed.
3. The discovery that the observer can effect the results.

Now those three things are huge, but they are not the things usually brought up when connecting Magick and Science.

Science is now on the cusp of being able to create a pocket universe (a mini big bang so to speak), instead I am reading how opening my chakras or third eye will let me see or feel energy that is in different quantum dimensions (paraphrasing but I would not be surprised to see that in print).

The only good approaches to Science and Magick that come to mind are Peter Carroll’s and William A . Tiller. Carroll on the pure theory side does not make claims of anything justifying anything. William A Tiller takes a purely scientific approach to proving the most minute existence of magickal phenomena.

His books are not for the feint of heart, but they are what is needed to get a firmer grasp on the whys of Magick.

Do we need the whys? No not really, but we do if we want to use science to prove it exists.

Body and mind control is now accepted by the scientific community, why, because people can repeatedly do things like go to only theta waves at will (mental equivalent of stopping the heart) and then come back out, or show the full spectrum of brain waves at once. Or stopping the heart or slowing it down to almost stopping it.

What has that done? It has given medical researchers new tools, and added a ton of funding to the research of long term effects of specific meditations. It has opened holistic medical schools where traditional and non traditional treatments are taught and researched ultimately providing better care.

Meanwhile on the magickal side of the fence you have idiots talking about science in an uneducated way…the least science is going to do is the same.

Most of my posts are poorly written, and poorly thought out. They are. At the length that I write I should be outlining and all I am doing is keyboard vomiting…but that was not my point :-P


My point was really this.
Start of point.
If people are going to use science or a scientific theory as a backup for their claims, they at least need to know about the scientific concepts enough to explain the correlations between their claims and the scientific theory.

They also should explain them in any publication where they make such claims, preferably in an appendix.

End of point.
If not all I believe they are doing, is blowing smoke up my ass.

There are many who use pseudoscience for their claims. This is at least more honest, but it does not excuse the fact.

For example in the Ghost chasing scenarios. Monitor everything you can at a site and a site near where you are going with no claims of paranormal activity (a base line must be established) for two weeks. Then try to identify and minimize all the variables as possible. Then go for your haunting. To make extraordinary claims you must have extraordinary proof.

Just for minor safety controls, we demand more clinical testing then that with most products. In a lab they make sure their instruments are precise, and the baselines set.

They also expose things to nothing Vs. the experiment to verify lack of outside contamination. Even after an enormous effort is made, it is peer reviewed and other people (hopefully independent) make experiments. This is the strength of the scientific community, the ability to make and explain predictable results.

Myth Busters does a better job at checking the validity of a claim then any paranormal show I have seen, and they pride themselves in shoddy scientific methods.

Now, I have had two experiences with visual entities, both scared me to my witts end, and I can not prove either case. One could have been a dream, the other a sound and light educed hallucination (though I would have found myself short of a horse if that was the case).

But to claim something and have the production money of a TV show…get decent equipment, and baseline it at minimum, if you are going to use any science to back up your claims at least apply scientific principles.


As to Science being a religion. I agree in many regards. However, scientific principles of testing are pretty standard affairs. I would state that academia is the religion, as there are areas that are not scientific that are treated with the same reverence.

Another wonderful thing is when asking scientists things in a poll. They are not asking scientists in that field, they are just asking scientists…thus lay people when it comes to that field.

But as in all things today, perception is so much more important and more real then the truth.

This post has been edited by paxx: Nov 6 2007, 09:42 PM