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 Deity And Respect For Culture, Is there such a thing as "cultural theft"?
Khenti_Amenti
post Oct 22 2007, 03:43 AM
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In more serious Pagan circles the discusion is often in the lines with "Man can not manipulate Gods and thinking so is hubris. Taking Divine names out of cultural context (ie Zeus out of Greek Religion) is Cultural theft and disrespectful". All this ofcaurse with total disregard for differing paradigms and Ontologies.

It is seen as "using" Divine names in Magickal work is a disrespect towards the Deities in question (as opose to general belief most Pagan Religions do not deal in Magick).
I will not go in to paradigms here since what cnstitutes a God differs even within Religions (proper) but it should be clear, i think, that a Golden Dawn member vibrating "Zeus" has another world view than a Hellenist worshipping Zeus.

1. What is your view?
Whether or not you have a paradigm that allows for Divine names from different Cultures, do you feel it could somehow be seen as disrespectful towards that Culture or followers of a Reconstructive Religion conected to it?

2. When you invoke a Divine name in Ritual, have you studied that God and how he / she was actually percieved in ancient times in an academic manner (not even Victorian Orders such as GD and O.T.O. has their understanding of ancient Gods, Cults and Culture right acording to more modern academic studies)?

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Gesigewigus
post Nov 25 2007, 11:51 PM
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This is an issue close to me, along with the concept of cultural appropriation, but I'll ignore that part for now..

I don't feel it has to be disrespectful, but it often is. If one has studied the myths, the culture, the godform, then one can use them with a better sense of understanding. Often people who co-opt Godforms have not done this, and that often leads to misuse, and misunderstanding. While part of me thinks "If they misuse Energy/Gods and get screwed for it, it is their own fault," part of me is just generally bothered by the idea of coming in and "stealing" a Godform.

Someone brought up the idea (sorry I forget who) that theft makes it sound like there is ownership. In someways there is, I'll avoid the dynamics of social identity stuff, but one could consider that ownership is bestowed on the cultural that has the god, not because they made them, or anything like that, but because they honour, respect, and understand them. Anyone who honestly puts in the effort to work with, and understand an entity is free to do so, but I hate seeing Gods pulled from paradigms, patched together, and misconstrued together.

Personally as someone devoted to Kali, I hate seeing Her pulled out and slapped into any role requiring a female Godform, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Of course (and this point of view tends to irk more people, especially those who don't have background in anti-oppression), the issue is actually fairly different, when we encounter things like the Christian Godnames in non-Christian rituals. But that's only because, like it or not, fight it or not, we in North America (and much of the western world) live in a Christian society. It may claim secularity, but it's Christian, and it's infused in it, so we already have some connection/understanding of the Godform, even if we've never touched a Bible or been to Church. You can debate if that's an accurate portrayal of the Godform, but it's an accurate portrayal of many beliefs of the Godform.

Paxx brings up a good point, though I'll take the other side of it. Pantheons are complete for the most part. Coming from a Jungian/Campbellian background a Pantheon represents all the aspects of the human consciousness as understood by that culture. Which is one of the many reasons you see overlap of Godforms across cultures, because it doesn't matter where you're from, you were having sex and babies.

The trouble with people who make mix and match Pantheons, is they often aren't as complete, and this in turn could be symbolic or representative of their own imbalances. For the ease of example, I mean no disrespect with this oversimplification. Say someone is patching a pantheon of gods they like, and work well with. Their debating sky-father/all-father figures. Yeah, Re, Zeus, and Odin could all be in that role, but each of them also has other aspects than that. Odin has more ties to language as he discovered the Runes, so picking Zeus removes that communication aspect. One for one it's not a horrible thing, but when people patch together several, they'll either get a personal pantheon that is missing a lot of aspects, or overwhelming in others

The other side of that same problem is overlap or conflicts in the godforms you try to mix. Yeah, Shiva and Shakti go well together, but just because you think Morgainne is a better God to use, doesn't mean Shiva will work with her just as well.

I think that is enough of my rambles, I believe (and hope) that made sense.


--------------------
When we first begin all things simply are.
As we grow all things are external.
As we learn all things are internal.
As we understand all things are not.

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